We are not saved by works?

[Dropout_Theologian]

Okay so this has always confused me. Maybe someone here can answer my question satisfactorily. In Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says that wee are saved by faith and not by works. Paul even takes it a step further in Romans 4:5 and says that a person who doesn't work AT ALL. That their faith will be counted for righteousness.

Yet in Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus sends people who do works into heaven and people who don't do works to hell. But wait a minute! Didn't Paul just say that a man who has no works will still go to heaven? Also in James 2:14-26 James says that faith without works is a dead faith. Why the contradiction in the Bible? Wasn't Paul aware that if we had no works that we wouldn't go to heaven? I'm not calling Paul a heretic but I'm calling him wrong. Because what he said doesn't match up with what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46! Or... Does it???

I've been struggling with this recently as well. What I can figure out is it must be faith from God, as well as works given from God. At least that's the trend I see in my life, both the faith and the works are from God. Perhaps Romans 4:5 is being taking out of context, but I haven't checked myself.

 

[redleghunter]

That does make sense. But why would Paul say a person who has no works will still go to heaven. Also its possible to have faith but do no good works. You'd have to be a douche of a human being but its possible to believe yet ignore the promptings of the holy spirit.

Paul does not say that. What he is saying is nothing we do saves us.

Works do not save us but we will be judged by our works. Does that make sense?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul does not say that. What he is saying is nothing we do saves us.

Paul is fighting against "Works Alone Salvationism" (without God's grace) and or in trying to be saved by obeying the Law of Moses. Just read the context when you read Romans and Galatians and it is all too clear to see. For obviously God's grace was never meant to be a license to sin or a get out of hell jail free card (See Jude 1:4 NIV). We actually have to be faithful to God and live for Him as a part of salvation. If not, then believers can be axe murdering rapists and God does not really care and will save us regardless. But if this is the case, then why doesn't God save everyone? Does a belief alone really make a person morally better? No. This is why faith and works go hand and in hand. Over and over in your New Testament, you cannot escape those verses that should haunt you in the night that talk about how if you live one way, you are going to die, but if you live another way, there is life and peace (See Romans 8:13). For we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear? Hebrews 5:9 says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

Works do not save us but we will be judged by our works. Does that make sense?

This is statement is actually self refuting. The fact that we will be judged by our works prove that salvation does also include works as a part of the salvation process. After we are saved by God's grace, works (Sanctification) also save.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 is a verse you will have to deny (among many).

"...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).​

So God has chosen you to salvation through:

(a) Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus is the truth - John 14:6).
(b) Sanctification of the Spirit.​

Now, you automatically assume nobody can live righteously and so therefore see something in Scripture that is not there. If Scripture is as you say, then we would not be judged by our works but we would be judged by a belief alone. But nowhere do we see such a thing in Scripture.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

I've been struggling with this recently as well. What I can figure out is it must be faith from God, as well as works given from God. At least that's the trend I see in my life, both the faith and the works are from God. Perhaps Romans 4:5 is being taking out of context, but I haven't checked myself.

I've been struggling with this recently as well. What I can figure out is it must be faith from God, as well as works given from God. At least that's the trend I see in my life, both the faith and the works are from God. Perhaps Romans 4:5 is being taking out of context, but I haven't checked myself.

What do you believe regarding the propitiation of our sins and the atonement of Jesus Christ?
Just curious.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've been struggling with this recently as well. What I can figure out is it must be faith from God, as well as works given from God. At least that's the trend I see in my life, both the faith and the works are from God. Perhaps Romans 4:5 is being taking out of context, but I haven't checked myself.

At the Jerusalem counsel they addressed the heresies of "Circumcision Salvationism," and in following all "613 Laws of Moses" (contractually speaking, i.e. the old contract). Granted, the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet) has obviously not been abolished because we see the Moral Law repeated in the New Testament (or the New Covenant, i.e. the new contract). Anyways, we can see the problem of those who thought they had to wrongfully be circumcised in order to be saved clearly in these verses:

1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
   
   
2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” ...................................... ..........................................................
3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

In the book of Galatians, Romans, and Corinthians, we can see Paul is fighting against the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism," as well.

1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
   
   
2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
   
   
3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
   
   
4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
   
   
5. 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)
   
   
6. Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
   
   
7. Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
   
   
8. Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”
   
   
9. James says to Paul before he goes to the Jewish temple in Acts of the Apostles 21:21, “And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.”

Most today want to justify a sin and still be saved doctrine, so they will not be able to see these kinds of verses or they will attempt to make these verses say something else.

Folks also do not have far to look in the context to see that when Paul refers to the "Law" or to "works" he is referring to the "Old Law." Paul is clearly not speaking against the words of Jesus here. For if he did, he would have condemned himself. For he says that if any man consents not (i.e. does not agree or speaks contrary) to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we need both a belief in the truth and Sanctification as a part of salvation. Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (See Matthew 19:17). Hebrews 5:9 says Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What do you believe regarding the propitiation of our sins and the atonement of Jesus Christ?
Just curious.

In order for the sacrifice of Christ to be applied to a person's life, they need both a belief in Jesus as their Savior (believing in His death and resurrection) (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) (Romans 3:25) (Note: Belief or acceptance in Jesus also includes "repentance" or seeking the Lord's forgiveness: See 1 John 1:9, Luke 13:3, Matthew 12:41 cf Jonah 3:6-10), and they also need to have good works, too (1 John 1:7) (Hebrews 5:9).

Sanctification is a part of the call of the gospel.
Meaning, Sanctification is tied to the gospel.
For it is written,

13 “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).​

We can also see that in these verses here, too.
For Christ died so as to cleanse us by the Holy Scriptures so as to present himself a church that is without spot, holy, and without blemish.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. " (Ephesians 5:25-27).​

Christ died for us so as to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify to himself a unique people who are zealous of good works.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).​

For God is good;
He is not evil and He will condone a believer's sin.
For in order for God to save a person who commits willful sin or rebellion done against Him, He would have to agree with that kind of thinking. We are told that believers have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16) and not the mind of a sinner.

 

[redleghunter]

Paul is fighting against "Works Alone Salvationism" (without God's grace) and or in going trying to be saved by obeying the Law of Moses. Just read the context when you read Romans and Galatians and it is all too clear to see. For obviously God's grace was never meant to be a license to sin or a get out of hell jail free card (See Jude 1:4 NIV). We actually have to be faithful to God and live for Him as a part of salvation. If not, then believers can be axe murdering rapists and God does not really care and will save us regardless. But if this is the case, then why doesn't God save everyone? Does a belief alone really make a person morally better? No. This is why faith and works go hand and in hand. Over and over in your New Testament, you cannot escape those verses that should haunt you in the night that talk about how if you live one way, you are going to die, but if you live another way, there is life and peace (See Romans 8:13). For we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear? Hebrews 5:9 says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.



This is statement is actually self refuting. The fact that we will be judged by our works prove that salvation does also include works as a part of the salvation process. After we are saved by God's grace, works (Sanctification) also save.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 is a verse you will have to deny (among many).

"...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).​

So God has chosen you to salvation through:

(a) Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus is the truth - John 14:6).
(b) Sanctification of the Spirit.​

Now, you automatically assume nobody can live righteously and so therefore see something in Scripture that is not there. If Scripture is as you say, then we would not be judged by our works but we would be judged by a belief alone. But nowhere do we see such a thing in Scripture.

It’s not self refuting if we understand regeneration.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

In order for the sacrifice of Christ to be applied to a person's life, they need both a belief in Jesus as their Savior (believing in His death and resurrection) (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) (Romans 3:25), and they need to have works (1 John 1:7) (Hebrews 5:9).

Sanctification is a part of the call of the gospel.
Meaning, Sanctification is tied to the gospel.

13 “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).​

We can also see that in these verses here, too.
For Christ died so as to cleanse us by the Holy Scriptures so as to present himself a church that is without spot, holy, and without blemish.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. " (Ephesians 5:25-27).​

Christ died for us so as to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify to himself a unique people who are zealous of good works.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).​

For God is good;
He is not evil and He will condone a believer's sin.
For in order for God to save a person who commits willful sin or rebellion done against Him, He would have to agree with that kind of thinking. We are told that believers have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16) and not the mind of a sinner.

That was a question presented to another poster.
I will say, since you responded, that I disagree with the very first paragraph of your post.
Our "works" play no part whatsoever in ones salvation.
Good works is a reflection of our received (not earned) salvation.
We are new creatures in Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It’s not self refuting if we understand regeneration.

The regeneration does not over ride a person's free will to live holy. A person has to actually still cooperate with the Lord. If not, then all Calvinists would be living holy. They would be mindless holy machines or puppets to God's will to do good.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That was a question presented to another poster.
I will say, since you responded, that I disagree with the very first paragraph of your post.
Our "works" play no part whatsoever in ones salvation.
Good works is a reflection of our received (not earned) salvation.
We are new creatures in Christ.

So if we are new creatures in Christ, then we are slaves to holiness, right? We are always doing that which is good? If not, then we are not new creatures in Christ.

Also, if we say we are not saved by works, then we can be axe murdering rapists saved by grace. But you do not believe that because you think there is some kind of level of holiness that needs to be met and so you say that we have a new nature that meets the requirements of holiness. So basically you are saying that works do play a part in the salvation process. If not, then one can sin and still be saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That was a question presented to another poster.
I will say, since you responded, that I disagree with the very first paragraph of your post.
Our "works" play no part whatsoever in ones salvation.
Good works is a reflection of our received (not earned) salvation.
We are new creatures in Christ.

I mean, what do you do with verses like this?

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).​

Do you sweep them under the carpet?

How about when Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments? (See Matthew 19:17).

Please take note that the point Jesus was trying to make by the end of Matthew 19 was not that they could not keep His commandments but it was about forsaking things as a part of everlasting life. In Luke 19:1-10, we learn that Zacchaeus was willing to give away half of his goods and Jesus said to him that salvation had come to his house that day. Sounds to me like you need to correct Jesus for teaching something wrong here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hebrews 5:9 is saying that obedience is tied to the atonement.

1 John 1:7 is saying if we walk in the light (abide in God and keep His commandments) the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. So it is not just obedience alone but also works that needs to be done in order for Christ's sacrifice to be applied to our lives.

 

[Dropout_Theologian]

What do you believe regarding the propitiation of our sins and the atonement of Jesus Christ?
Just curious.

I would guess I have to go with a pastor's statement: once saved, being saved, will be saved. Which may appear nonsensical to a skeptic but... I guess there seems to be heaven on earth (having a pure heart, having treasure in heaven) and heaven as a resting place after death, and then a combination of the two after the end of the world?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

So if we are new creatures in Christ, then we are slaves to holiness, right? We are always doing that which is good? If not, then we are not new creatures in Christ.

Also, if we say we are not saved by works, then we can be axe murdering rapists saved by grace. But you do not believe that because you think there is some kind of level of holiness that needs to be met and so you say that we have a new nature that meets the requirements of holiness. So basically you are saying that works do play a part in the salvation process. If not, then one can sin and still be saved.

Please refrain from speaking as to what I mean repeatedly muchless what I believe.
I am concise and to the point.
1. No, I didn't say or even allude that we are slaves to holiness. Why would you or I say that?

2. Who are you to state who is and who isn't a new creature in Christ?

3. By grace through faith...
Not sure why you insert an excessive illustration regarding salvation.
Salvation obviously isn't a license to sin .

4. Wow . That last paragraph you are actually stating that I said something that I clearly didn't.
You might want to reread it and clarify accordingly.
Because it was definitely inaccurate and not right.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Hebrews 5:9 is saying that obedience is tied to the atonement.

1 John 1:7 is saying if we walk in the light (abide in God and keep His commandments) the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. So it is not just obedience alone but also works that needs to be done in order for Christ's sacrifice to be applied to our lives.

Yup . Self righteousness.
SMH

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would guess I have to go with a pastor's statement: once saved, being saved, will be saved. Which may appear nonsensical to a skeptic but... I guess there seems to be heaven on earth (having a pure heart, having treasure in heaven) and heaven as a resting place after death, and then a combination of the two after the end of the world?

Many have committed suicide thinking they would be saved because of Once Saved Always Saved.

George Sodini, who is an Eternal Security proponent once wrote a suicide letter stating that he would be saved despite what he was going to do. He murdered a bunch of people and then killed himself (thinking he was saved).

George Sodini - OSAS Proponent who was a mass murderer and suicide victim.

 

[tdidymas]

Okay so this has always confused me. Maybe someone here can answer my question satisfactorily. In Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says that wee are saved by faith and not by works. Paul even takes it a step further in Romans 4:5 and says that a person who doesn't work AT ALL. That their faith will be counted for righteousness.

Yet in Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus sends people who do works into heaven and people who don't do works to hell. But wait a minute! Didn't Paul just say that a man who has no works will still go to heaven? Also in James 2:14-26 James says that faith without works is a dead faith. Why the contradiction in the Bible? Wasn't Paul aware that if we had no works that we wouldn't go to heaven? I'm not calling Paul a heretic but I'm calling him wrong. Because what he said doesn't match up with what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46! Or... Does it???

Is this a sincere question, or are you asking a rhetorical question to start a debate? If sincere, then have you gotten a satisfactory answer from some of these posts? These are sincere questions, as I am curious and would like to know your answer.
TD

 

[redleghunter]

The regeneration does not over ride a person's free will to live holy. A person has to actually still cooperate with the Lord. If not, then all Calvinists would be living holy. They would be mindless holy machines or puppets to God's will to do good.

As I said one needs to understand it. It’s crystal clear to an all Gentile audience in Ephesians chapters 1-2.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please refrain from speaking as to what I mean repeatedly muchless what I believe.
I am concise and to the point.
1. No, I didn't say or even allude that we are slaves to holiness. Why would you or I say that?

Because Paul said it. Don't you believe what Paul says here?

"You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." (Romans 6:18) (NIV).

Jesus says, he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34).

2. Who are you to state who is and who isn't a new creature in Christ?

Not me. The Bible says it.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2).

23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." (Ephesians 4:23-24).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17).

9 "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:" (Colossians 3:9-10).

4. Wow . That last paragraph you are actually stating that I said something that I clearly didn't.
You might want to reread it and clarify accordingly.
Because it was definitely inaccurate and not right.

So how do you explain Matthew 19:17 and Luke 19:1-10? Jesus was obviously teaching salvation by obedience in these verses. Do you disagree?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yup . Self righteousness.
SMH

Not at all. I believe it is the Lord who does the good work through me. Any or all obedience in my life I give credit to the Lord. How so? Jesus says you can do nothing without me (See John 15:5). Philippians says it is God that works in you.

So what else do you got?
Care to take a shot at explaining the verses I put forth?
What does obey mean in Hebrews 5:9?
What does walking in the light mean in 1 John 1:7?