Water canopy check, and mate!

dad · May 23, 2005

I have thought that when the new heavens are revealed, that the physical only universe will cease to exist, as it will be a complete spiritual/physical universe then. Of course the laws of physics, and gravity will not apply as they now do. I also suspect the bible indicates such a state existed before in our early history, but the two had to be seperated, probably as a result of the fall.

I have speculated that this split was fast, maybe instant, probably at the time of the fall of man. That is still what I think.
However, thinking about a water canopy of some kind, enough to really cause a flood, has led to a new possibility! I think it is pretty well known, and accepted, really, that such a canopy would be impossible, due to the great heat, and other things the laws of physics simply prohibit.
How about this, then. The split was not instant, but perhaps never really was completed till during the flood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This makes it entirely possible, as the merged laws were different. Presto- all arguements hitherto used against a canopy no longer valid!!! I like that. With science, then being neutered, this leaves only objections of a biblical nature to be a possible theory killer here.(?) But that's not going to happen, I am almost positive! So, evos, check, and MATE!!

David Gould · May 23, 2005

dad said:
I have thought that when the new heavens are revealed, that the physical only universe will cease to exist, as it will be a complete spiritual/physical universe then. Of course the laws of physicas, and gravity will not apply as they now do. I also suspect the bible indicates such a state existed before in our early history, but the two had to be seperated, probably as a result of the fall.

I have speculated that this split was fast, maybe instant, probably at the time of the fall of man. That is still what I think.
However, thinking about a water canopy of some kind, enough to really cause a flood, has led to a new possibility! I think it is pretty well known, and accepted, really, that such a canopy would be impossible, due to the great heat, and other things the laws of physics simply prohibit.
How about this, then. The split was not instant, but perhaps never really was completed till during the flood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This makes it entirely possible, as the merged laws were different. Presto- all arguements hitherto used against a canopy no longer valid!!! I like that. With science, then being neutered, this leaves only objections of a biblical nature to be a possible theory killer here.(?) But that's not going to happen, I am almost positive! So, evos, check, and MATE!!

Yawn.

ImmortalTechnique · May 23, 2005

he's gotta be pretending, right? this guy isn't for real?

235U92 · May 23, 2005

Congratulations! You're right back where you started before you posted this.

ImmortalTechnique · May 23, 2005

i guess we could ask him to present some evidence that the physical laws ever changed... that would be expecting too much, wouldn't it...

Hydra009 · May 23, 2005

dad said:
I have thought that when the new heavens are revealed, that the physical only universe will cease to exist, as it will be a complete spiritual/physical universe then. Of course the laws of physics, and gravity will not apply as they now do. I also suspect the bible indicates such a state existed before in our early history, but the two had to be seperated, probably as a result of the fall.

You realize, of course, that these "pre-Fall physics" aren't scientifically based in the slightest and can conceivably by used to explain any bizarre occurance YECists posit prior to the Fall. This is not so much check and mate, as an unscientific claim and an implicit admission of the physical impossibility of the Vapor canopy model.

Praxiteles · May 23, 2005

So many words, so many words... so little meaning.

Dad, you've just littered the forum. I'm hitting you with an on the spot fine for textual litter. $20, payable to Erwin, along with a written apology.

mikeynov · May 23, 2005

dad said:
I have thought that when the new heavens are revealed, that the physical only universe will cease to exist, as it will be a complete spiritual/physical universe then. Of course the laws of physics, and gravity will not apply as they now do. I also suspect the bible indicates such a state existed before in our early history, but the two had to be seperated, probably as a result of the fall.

I have speculated that this split was fast, maybe instant, probably at the time of the fall of man. That is still what I think.
However, thinking about a water canopy of some kind, enough to really cause a flood, has led to a new possibility! I think it is pretty well known, and accepted, really, that such a canopy would be impossible, due to the great heat, and other things the laws of physics simply prohibit.
How about this, then. The split was not instant, but perhaps never really was completed till during the flood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This makes it entirely possible, as the merged laws were different. Presto- all arguements hitherto used against a canopy no longer valid!!! I like that. With science, then being neutered, this leaves only objections of a biblical nature to be a possible theory killer here.(?) But that's not going to happen, I am almost positive! So, evos, check, and MATE!!

You think your thought experiments are a falsification of evolutionary theory? lol

235U92 · May 23, 2005

Doesn't this forum have a trashcan?

Douglaangu v2.0 · May 23, 2005

So lemme get this straight.

You're explaination of how a water/vapour canopy containing enough water to flood the earth, could exist without the harmful side effects is basicly divine intevention.
Doesn't this really negate the need for a canopy anyway? Since god could just magic the water into existance?

By the way, do you have any math or evidence to back up your idea?

Grengor · May 23, 2005

So a possible explanation that's just speculation puts us "Evos" in check mate? Hmmm, he's right! He's completely disproven Evolution with that! Not....

dad · May 23, 2005

Hydra009 said:
You realize, of course, that these "pre-Fall physics" aren't scientifically based in the slightest and can conceivably by used to explain any bizarre occurance YECists posit prior to the Fall. This is not so much check and mate, as an unscientific claim and an implicit admission of the physical impossibility of the Flood canopy model.

Yes, physically impossible, which is why it almost makes sense to realize that all along, when it happened, we were missing the mark! Our present pitiful measurig sticks are riddiculously inadequate!
By the way, I like the sound of your little phrase "pre-Fall physics" . They are scientifically based, but your science is so far behind the eight ball, it isn't funny. The spiritual/physical is the eternal reality wheras this snippet of physical only/time-bound plane is but a vapor, that appears, then is gone, to be seen no more.

dad · May 23, 2005

Grengor said:
So a possible explanation that's just speculation puts us "Evos" in check mate? [ It puts old age physical only based box science in it's place! Only able to fume and stomp it's feet that it just can't see it] Hmmm, he's right! He's completely disproven Evolution with that! Not....

.

Battie · May 23, 2005

Dad, you mean something like this?: http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/g/gier/306/OTcosmos.jpg

This is a pre-scientific cosmology. Do you also want us to believe that the sun, moon, and stars used to hang right above the globe and then suddenly were blown out into space and expanded exponentially so that we could still see them sometime during that flood?

MuAndNu · May 23, 2005

Well, I'm convinced. Lemmee blow the dust off my Bible and see if I can find a church that'll take me.

Douglaangu v2.0 · May 23, 2005

dad said:
Yes, physically impossible, which is why it almost makes sense to realize that all along, when it happened, we were missing the mark! Our present pitiful measurig sticks are riddiculously inadequate!
By the way, I like the sound of your little phrase "pre-Fall physics" . They are scientifically based, but your science is so far behind the eight ball, it isn't funny. The spiritual/physical is the eternal reality wheras this snippet of physical only/time-bound plane is but a vapor, that appears, then is gone, to be seen no more.

Do share then, I wish to learn about these developments you've made.
The math behind them if possible.

Pete Harcoff · May 23, 2005

Creationists do more harm to creationism than evolutionists ever could.

dad · May 23, 2005

Douglaangu v2.0 said:
So lemme get this straight.

You're explaination of how a water/vapour canopy containing enough water to flood the earth, could exist without the harmful side effects is basicly divine intevention. [Devine intervention created the world, and the universe. The normal stste of affairs is, and will be the eternal spiritual/physical one. Because we now are in a temporary physical only state, that can't be used to determine how it worked before the split.]
Doesn't this really negate the need for a canopy anyway? Since god could just magic the water into existance? [No. There is not so much a 'need' for it, as a recognition that the fountains of the heavens were opened. All we have to do, is try and figure out, with our limited knowledge how it happened, and actually we really just need to take it by faith. The figuring out bit, is only to stop those trying to teach children there is no God, and their science 'proves' it. ]

By the way, do you have any math or evidence to back up your idea?
[One bit that comes to mind as a possible indication I may be on the right track, is how God used to walk and talk directly to men in a way that was lessened over time, it seems. He walked in the garden, and talked to Adam. He gave directions directly to Noah how to build the boat, etc. While He still speaks today, I havn't heard really of Him walking on earth chatting with too many? Also, for the math, it checks out with the department of weights and measures-the bible, and it's numbers of years.]

.

Click to expand...

dad · May 23, 2005

MuAndNu said:
Well, I'm convinced. Lemmee blow the dust off my Bible and see if I can find a church that'll take me.

Well, thank you. I don't go to church myself, but if you feel it is your bag, then enjoy.

Hydra009 · May 23, 2005

dad said:
Yes, physically impossible, which is why it almost makes sense to realize that all along, when it happened, we were missing the mark! Our present pitiful measurig sticks are riddiculously inadequate!

Don't you think the fact that it is a physical impossibility is a pretty good clue that it didn't happen? D'oh!

By the way, I like the sound of your little phrase "pre-Fall physics".

Oh nooes!1

They are scientifically based, but your science is so far behind the eight ball, it isn't funny.

If you can back it up with anything other than your assertion, then do so. As it stands right now, your claim has no credibility other than simply taking your word for it.

Water canopy check, and mate!

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