Water baptism

[Edial]

Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Alithis]

Happy New Year everyone!
View attachment 134024

 

[Frogster]

And this is the danger of teaching symbolic baptism - slippery slope.

If we depend on our intellect and say we know it is just a testimony and has absolutely no meaning in itself, then in time we find another form of a testimony and commit Water Baptism into a museum together with the dummies in animal skins and woolen mammoth.

And then, emboldened by our newly found freedom, we would start teaching how Christianity progressed from the archaic written word into the intellectual heart-felt theology that interprets the ABCs of ancient and dearly infant Christianity into a complex and beautiful expression of the Living Word that is not bound by pen.

In hell, :o ... after we re-evaluate our freedom of expression and thought we wished we went back to the archaic Christianity "6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment".

In Christ,
Ed the Primate

i was just pointing out the plurality in the hebrews verse, to show that baptism was bigger in their day, and it was broader, not that we should go backwards, as per the hebrews, and what they were doing. frog the amphibian! lol...

 

[Edial]

i was just pointing out the plurality in the hebrews verse, to show that baptism was bigger in their day, and it was broader, not that we should go backwards, as per the hebrews, and what they were doing. frog the amphibian! lol...

And I just felt like making a big speech.

 

[Frogster]

And I just felt like making a big speech.

that comes from sipping champagne on new years!

be blessed bro!

 

[Edial]

that comes from sipping champagne on new years!

be blessed bro!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Every church I've ever attended claimed to be the true heirs of the Church of Acts. This was really bad when I was a Pentecostal/AG. But on this topic, and others , they sorely missed the boat.

Even outside of any general purpose, the Apostles baptized their converts immediately. As has been duly pointed out by the scripture-matic frog, some passages do not mention a baptism at the event. Correct, but in the major events they do. Not to mention not every event of conversion is said to have faith (Acts 2:38), or includes grace (Acts 16:31), I could make a laundry list to compile here. The point being you can't negate parts of scripture with other scripture just to fit your theology. In more than one place baptism is listed in conjection with conversion for whatever reason. The earliest church baptized on the spot or as close to as they could. But today churches want to indoctrinate people, make sure they are committed, give them classes, etc. Just baptize them when they say I DO to Jesus and leave the finer points to a later date.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Here is just one of many examples and teachings of early church fathers on baptism found at the following website: http://www.earlychristiandictionary.com/Baptism.html#I

For Christ also said, "Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Isaiah the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: "Wash you, make you clean…" Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.183

 

[Frogster]

How can Romans 6 be about water baptism?..when the born again experience talked about in Rom 6, happens to people before, and without water baptism?


How can it be water dependent, when millions had that happen without being emersed?


Can 6 happen without water? Yes, all the time, then and now, people are experience the 6 description, without water...

How do people explain that?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

How can Romans 6 be about water baptism?..when the born again experience talked about in Rom 6, happens to people before, and without water baptism?


How can it be water dependent, when millions had that happen without being emersed?


Can 6 happen without water? Yes, all the time, then and now, people are experience the 6 description, without water...

How do people explain that?

I responded to this question in your thread, I would really prefer to only keep that specific discussion to one or the other... So I don't have to cut and paste on my iPad.. that gets somewhat tedious

 

[Frogster]

I responded to this question in your thread, I would really prefer to only keep that specific discussion to one or the other... So I don't have to cut and paste on my iPad.. that gets somewhat tedious

welp, in all of your words, i do not see a simple sentence, that explains how this 6 experience, happens to millions, for over 20 centuries, without water, as you stress that 6 is about water.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

welp, in all of your words, i do not see a simple sentence, that explains how this 6 experience, happens to millions, for over 20 centuries, without water, as you stress that 6 is about water.

Show me "from the text" how it is not about water. You can't so that is that, the vast majority of "baptism" references in the New Testament are concerning WATER baptism. So unless stated specifically otherwise, you must take "baptism" as in water.

 

[Frogster]

Show me "from the text" how it is not about water. You can't so that is that, the vast majority of "baptism" references in the New Testament are concerning WATER baptism. So unless stated specifically otherwise, you must take "baptism" as in water.

my question has a built in answer, and proof.

You say it's water, yet millions prove contrary.

So an unsaved person , has to be baptized in water first, to then be born again?


please...bro...think it through what I say..

 

[Frogster]

did you notice in Acts, that they were baptized, AFTER CONVERSION?

So that proves 6, was not about water, they were raised up first, as new converts, believers, having had the waterless experience of 6, THEN, they were emersed..then...

6 is not about water.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I have never said baptism leads to belief. Nor have I said baptism without belief saves. This is why you should read all my posts before just saying something with a small snippet of information.

Perhaps it is you that should consider what I've said.

 

[Frogster]

I have never said baptism leads to belief. Nor have I said baptism without belief saves. This is why you should read all my posts before just saying something with a small snippet of information.

Perhaps it is you that should consider what I've said.

this is about 6, and you insist it is about water.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

this is about 6, and you insist it is about water.

because it is...

 

[Frogster]

because it is...

Unsaved people do not get batized for Jesus.

They had to first, had the born again, sin remission, old man dyining (6:6)raised up in the new man experience, all without water.

Unless you think unsaved flesh, would want to be baptized?

Then, after that, they seek to be emersed, they would not seek to be emersed, prior to the conversion born again experience, described in 6.

You seem to put baptism first, you have the order of events backwards, it does not work that way.

Conversion first, the rom 6 event, THEN water, 6 does not need water, or else unsaved people would all have to be emersed first, even though they do not believe at that point, , and have not converted yet. So that would mean that all born again experiences, had to happen only at water baptism, if 6 is about water.


No way, first 6, then water, days or weeks later, or sometimes never, as per some people.

 

[Frogster]

It says they were raised up after baptism. If it were water, then they would all have to be born again, raised up, only at the emersion.

But if you see that they were raised up prior to the water baptism, it all works. They did not need water for 6 to happen.

Your way says, they have to be raised up, only as they are water baptized.

They had to have already been saved, to be water baptized, saved without water, saved in 6, without water emersion.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Unsaved people do not get batized for Jesus.

They had to first, had the born again, sin remission, old man dyining (6:6)raised up in the new man experience, all without water.

Unless you think unsaved flesh, would want to be baptized?

Then, after that, they seek to be emersed, they would not seek to be emersed, prior to the conversion born again experience, described in 6.

You seem to put baptism first, you have the order of events backwards, it does not work that way.

Conversion first, the rom 6 event, THEN water, 6 does not need water, or else unsaved people would all have to be emersed first, even though they do not believe at that point, , and have not converted yet. So that would mean that all born again experiences, had to happen only at water baptism, if 6 is about water.


No way, first 6, then water, days or weeks later, or sometimes never, as per some people.

It says they were raised up after baptism. If it were water, then they would all have to be born again, raised up, only at the emersion.

But if you see that they were raised up prior to the water baptism, it all works. They did not need water for 6 to happen.

Your way says, they have to be raised up, only as they are water baptized.

They had to have already been saved, to be water baptized, saved without water, saved in 6, without water emersion.

stop, please just stop... go back and read my posts that started this thread. It's obvious you didn't... All your questions would be answered if you did. But you are not interested in hearing anything but your own opinion (and it is an opinion) on the matter.