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Was the Tower of Babel a religious rather than physical structure?

Ecclectic79

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I'm watching a Mike Hoggard video about the addition of the 13th sign (its from early last year so slightly dated) but he mentions height as the 4th dimension as mentioned in Ephesians.

When I think of 'height' used in that way, the 'high' places of Israel and Judah, a thought rapidly jumped out at me.

Over the past week - as I mentioned - I've been reading an MP Hall book for spiritual warfare purposes. A lot is said here on Kabbalah, there's also a documentary online (from History Channel or TLC now on YouTube) that states Kabbalah as the Jewish way of trying to reach God themselves or reach heaven and look for God rather than letting him contact them as he'd will it.

This really makes me wonder - Kabbalah with its germatria, notorikon, temura, is a lot of essentially letter and number crunching, to build a bridge. This makes me wonder, was Nimrod/Gilgamesh actually forcing the construct of a physical tower or was he building an esoteric system, akin to the Kabbalah/Hermetics/Gnosticism triumbrant in order to build a tower of babble (Babel) in order to reach heaven? Nimrod 'became' mighty which tells me that, as people claim, his DNA very well could have taken a turn or he might have become highly illuminated.

If that's the case I have to wonder if that's not exactly what we're looking at right now with our current esoteric movements.
 

Douggg

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I'm watching a Mike Hoggard video about the addition of the 13th sign (its from early last year so slightly dated) but he mentions height as the 4th dimension as mentioned in Ephesians.

When I think of 'height' used in that way, the 'high' places of Israel and Judah, a thought rapidly jumped out at me.

Over the past week - as I mentioned - I've been reading an MP Hall book for spiritual warfare purposes. A lot is said here on Kabbalah, there's also a documentary online (from History Channel or TLC now on YouTube) that states Kabbalah as the Jewish way of trying to reach God themselves or reach heaven and look for God rather than letting him contact them as he'd will it.

This really makes me wonder - Kabbalah with its germatria, notorikon, temura, is a lot of essentially letter and number crunching, to build a bridge. This makes me wonder, was Nimrod/Gilgamesh actually forcing the construct of a physical tower or was he building an esoteric system, akin to the Kabbalah/Hermetics/Gnosticism triumbrant in order to build a tower of babble (Babel) in order to reach heaven? Nimrod 'became' mighty which tells me that, as people claim, his DNA very well could have taken a turn or he might have become highly illuminated.

If that's the case I have to wonder if that's not exactly what we're looking at right now with our current esoteric movements.

They were trying to do something that I think went beyond a tall tower. Some have speculated that it was going to be a stargate point with help from the fallen angels.

As far as Nimrod becoming a mighty one, imo, it is that he had some Nephilim genes in him somewhere along the line. His father was Cush.

I don't know if Kabbalah is a factor. Some Jews say that Abraham used Kabbalah. Basically, Kabblah is a set of meditation trances a kabbalist goes through in order to reach Keter - the highest plane where they come into the presence of God. Keter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Judaism, not just anyone is allowed to study Kabballah. The reason given is that there was an unfortunate incident where some students allegedly died and the leader went insane. It is a good read about the incident. The rise and fall of Rabbi Dellah Reina.
Dreaming of Moshiach: The Story: Rise and Fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina

Now, some in Judaism say that it is a true story. I am suspecting that it is true to a point as far as Rabbi Reina being a real person. The story is wild and entertaining - but it should not be taken as the literal truth. None theless, there are some interesting points in that story.

The Rabbi was attempting to bring about what Judaism considers to be the Redemption. "I am resolved to use the secrets of the Torah to remove all impurities from this world and bring the Redemption and Moshiach, who will release us from our oppressers."

What I find as being interesting is that in order to achieve his purpose - he sought to remove Satan (and Lilith) from power. Very interesting, since Judaism maintains that Satan was not in the garden of eden, and Satan is not an individual...which I take to be more of a word definition argument.

There are a lot of lessons of things not to do in that story.
1. do not try to contact the dead.
2. do not try to contact spirit beings - i.e. angels and fallen angels.
3. do not try to contact familiar spirits.
4. do not try to disconnect from reality to go into a trance.
5. do not practice kabbalah.
6. do not play around with the various ways that God's name can be pronounced. That is, God's personal name in written form of four letters, constants, no vowels. In Hebrew the vowels are placed within the name at certain points with little symbols, so that different pronunciations are possible.


Doug
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I'm watching a Mike Hoggard video about the addition of the 13th sign (its from early last year so slightly dated) but he mentions height as the 4th dimension as mentioned in Ephesians.

When I think of 'height' used in that way, the 'high' places of Israel and Judah, a thought rapidly jumped out at me.

Over the past week - as I mentioned - I've been reading an MP Hall book for spiritual warfare purposes. A lot is said here on Kabbalah, there's also a documentary online (from History Channel or TLC now on YouTube) that states Kabbalah as the Jewish way of trying to reach God themselves or reach heaven and look for God rather than letting him contact them as he'd will it.

This really makes me wonder - Kabbalah with its germatria, notorikon, temura, is a lot of essentially letter and number crunching, to build a bridge. This makes me wonder, was Nimrod/Gilgamesh actually forcing the construct of a physical tower or was he building an esoteric system, akin to the Kabbalah/Hermetics/Gnosticism triumbrant in order to build a tower of babble (Babel) in order to reach heaven? Nimrod 'became' mighty which tells me that, as people claim, his DNA very well could have taken a turn or he might have become highly illuminated.

If that's the case I have to wonder if that's not exactly what we're looking at right now with our current esoteric movements.

Well, with all of the tall buildings standing today, we can believe that there was more to the Tower of Babel than just being tall. I had heard that it was a portal, or star gate as Doug intimated. Of course we do not know for sure, but, whatever it was angered God so much that He destroyed it.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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They were trying to do something that I think went beyond a tall tower. Some have speculated that it was going to be a stargate point with help from the fallen angels.

As far as Nimrod becoming a mighty one, imo, it is that he had some Nephilim genes in him somewhere along the line. His father was Cush.

I don't know if Kabbalah is a factor. Some Jews say that Abraham used Kabbalah. Basically, Kabblah is a set of meditation trances a kabbalist goes through in order to reach Keter - the highest plane where they come into the presence of God. Keter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Judaism, not just anyone is allowed to study Kabballah. The reason given is that there was an unfortunate incident where some students allegedly died and the leader went insane. It is a good read about the incident. The rise and fall of Rabbi Dellah Reina.
Dreaming of Moshiach: The Story: Rise and Fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina

Now, some in Judaism say that it is a true story. I am suspecting that it is true to a point as far as Rabbi Reina being a real person. The story is wild and entertaining - but it should not be taken as the literal truth. None theless, there are some interesting points in that story.

The Rabbi was attempting to bring about what Judaism considers to be the Redemption. "I am resolved to use the secrets of the Torah to remove all impurities from this world and bring the Redemption and Moshiach, who will release us from our oppressers."

What I find as being interesting is that in order to achieve his purpose - he sought to remove Satan (and Lilith) from power. Very interesting, since Judaism maintains that Satan was not in the garden of eden, and Satan is not an individual...which I take to be more of a word definition argument.

There are a lot of lessons of things not to do in that story.
1. do not try to contact the dead.
2. do not try to contact spirit beings - i.e. angels and fallen angels.
3. do not try to contact familiar spirits.
4. do not try to disconnect from reality to go into a trance.
5. do not practice kabbalah.
6. do not play around with the various ways that God's name can be pronounced. That is, God's personal name in written form of four letters, constants, no vowels. In Hebrew the vowels are placed within the name at certain points with little symbols, so that different pronunciations are possible.


Doug

I read the story of the Rabbi Doug and wow! Is this a true story? It is rather sad that they did not understand that satan has already been defeated by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
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LastSeven

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Obviously God has no issue with tall towers or physical height as I'm sure some of the towers in existence today far surpass anything Nimrod could have built, not to mention that space travel is guaranteed to be "higher" than any tower.

Yes, the tower of babel was most likely a stargate of some sort. A means to "reach" heaven through a dimensional portal, not a physical tower.
 
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Manasseh_

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wow, stargates and portals.........sounds more like something from a science fiction movie rather than from scripture

Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

Nimrod built cities and a tower but Nimrod was agaisnt the Lord God, a mighty hunter before or in place of the Lord, agaisnt God and God saw that Nimrod was leading men down the same path as before the flood with Nimrod's idol worship and worship of himself so God confounded their language and confused them so they stopped building the tower

later Semiramus (Nimrod's wife , Queen of Babylon) attempted to continue this Nimrod worship by claiming that her pregnancy was Nimrod "reincarnated" the origins and makings of the Babylonian mystery religion

it was nothing more than men worshiping the creation rather than the creator , it had nothing to do with stargates and portals to heaven or other realms

 
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LastSeven

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If that were so then why did God disperse the people at that time, while allowing the same type of false religion to exist today? Clearly, it was about much more than false religion.

Genesis 11
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

This passage clearly ties the reason for confusing the languages to the building of the tower. Why would God have such an issue with a tower so as to do something so drastic?

And why would he say "then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them"? The tower would have given the people some sort of power to enable them to do things that would otherwise be impossible for them. This kind of statement would not be made in response to a simple false religion, of which many exist today.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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wow, stargates and portals.........sounds more like something from a science fiction movie rather than from scripture

Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

Nimrod built cities and a tower but Nimrod was agaisnt the Lord God, a mighty hunter before or in place of the Lord, agaisnt God and God saw that Nimrod was leading men down the same path as before the flood with Nimrod's idol worship and worship of himself so God confounded their language and confused them so they stopped building the tower

later Semiramus (Nimrod's wife , Queen of Babylon) attempted to continue this Nimrod worship by claiming that her pregnancy was Nimrod "reincarnated" the origins and makings of the Babylonian mystery religion

it was nothing more than men worshiping the creation rather than the creator , it had nothing to do with stargates and portals to heaven or other realms



Frankly we don't really know what it was or wasn't. The Bible tells us what it was designed to do and that is all we know. Everything we are discussing is speculation. But, we see in the Bible of gateways to Heaven being opened. Jacob's ladder, the angels with the shepherds in the field at the birth of Jesus, Stephen at his death saw heaven standing open. So I believe there are portals, stargates, gateways,or whatever you might want to call them.
 
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Zanting

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wow, stargates and portals.........sounds more like something from a science fiction movie rather than from scripture

Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

Nimrod built cities and a tower but Nimrod was agaisnt the Lord God, a mighty hunter before or in place of the Lord, agaisnt God and God saw that Nimrod was leading men down the same path as before the flood with Nimrod's idol worship and worship of himself so God confounded their language and confused them so they stopped building the tower

later Semiramus (Nimrod's wife , Queen of Babylon) attempted to continue this Nimrod worship by claiming that her pregnancy was Nimrod "reincarnated" the origins and makings of the Babylonian mystery religion

it was nothing more than men worshiping the creation rather than the creator , it had nothing to do with stargates and portals to heaven or other realms

I'm not convinced about that...but the bible definitely is not fiction...I'm pretty convinced it was some kind of portal...we've been well conditioned to believe that these ideas are science fiction...it is a great way to disguise the truth. Think of all the fantastic events that have occurred throughout the Bible...Moses story for example has some truly amazing things going on...how do you visualize all those miraculous events...why would building a portal or star-gate be unbelievable.
 
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Ecclectic79 said in post 1:

Was the Tower of Babel a religious rather than physical structure?

The ancient Tower of Babel, just as a future one, could be both a physical structure and a religious one, in that it could be built based on Lucifer's core religion of Gnosticism. And the Tower could also be based on what we today would call science, which in our future could come to discover the spiritual aspects of reality.

For what science is currently missing in its search for a "Theory of Everything" that can unify all the physical forces in the universe, is spirit, so that by continuing to exclude the whole idea of spirit, science can never hope to understand the universe at its most fundamental level or what its ultimate origin was: "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit . . . even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (Ecclesiastes 11:5).

The relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc^2, which means that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by the equation s=ec^2, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny photon of energy. All energy being based on spirit would make sense, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and in him everything consists (Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:28).

When science's equations regarding such things as the Big Bang singularity, black holes, and quantum entanglement require the inclusion of infinities, these infinities should not be seen as "failures" ultimately, but as pointers to something which goes beyond the boundaries of the physical, that is, spirit. If science ever becomes able to describe spirit mathematically using proportional numbers rather than infinities, this could lead to new technologies (for example, spiritual power plants, spiritual bombs), just as when science became able to describe atomic nuclei mathematically, this led to new technologies (for example, nuclear power plants, nuclear bombs).

Just as energy consists of both particles (photons) and waves (electromagnetic waves) at the same time, so the basis for all energy, spirit, could consist of both particles (spiritons) and waves at the same time. If spirit is equivalent to consciousness, and consciousness consists of logic, emotion, and memory, then spiritual waves could consist of three different sine waves (logic waves, emotion waves, and memory waves) which could be interlocked at 60-degree angles, just as electromagnetism consists of two different sine waves (electric waves and magnetic waves) interlocked at a 90-degree angle. But by our current, strictly-physical-based mathematics, a spiritual wave or spiriton would show up in a calculation as an infinity, and so it could be mistakenly rejected by our current science as a "failure". It is possible that by creating a mathematics which involves five dimensions of space-time, the apparently infinite value of a spiritual wave or spiriton could be reduced to a proportional value.

String Theory has shown that it is mathematically possible that space-time has more than three spatial dimensions. Because of observations such as Daniel 5:5, John 20:26b, and Luke 24:31b, the spiritual realm could be a fourth spatial dimension in which spiritual entities are able to move about without being seen by physical entities in our three spatial dimensions. The spiritual dimension would be higher than our three dimensions in the same sense that a third dimension is higher than two dimensions. And so from the spiritual realm, our physical realm would appear flat, just as from three dimensions, something in two dimensions would appear flat. An entity with access to the spiritual dimension could do such things as enter only part of himself into our physical realm (Daniel 5:5), or suddenly appear in a locked room (John 20:26b), or suddenly disappear (Luke 24:31b). This ability would apply not only to spiritual beings (1 Corinthians 15:44, Luke 24:39), but also to any spiritual wave or particle.

If spiritual particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science. While the Large Hadron Collider has reached a high-enough energy level so that a "God Particle" (that is, a Higgs boson) has probably manifested itself, its observed qualities might ultimately to be able to be described only by equations involving infinite values, so that its qualities and actions could ultimately be seen as "impossible" and "spooky", instead of science finally admitting to the existence of a substance which is spiritual. And spirit would not have to be seen by scientists as some weird, foreign substance, but rather as the most fundamental substance of even their own selves (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

The really sad and dangerous thing is that even if science does eventually determine that "the God Particle" is a spiritual particle, which science could come to call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in and submit themselves to YHWH God, saying that the existence of spirit does not require that there is one infinite, conscious spirit-being called YHWH God (John 4:24, Mark 12:30, Deuteronomy 6:5). And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being called Lucifer (Satan), who could manifest himself in some future, ultra-high-energy experiment and claim that he is the true, beneficent God of mankind and must be worshipped as God instead of YHWH. In this way, a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked and employed by Lucifer and his worshippers as one part of their future deception by which the world will eventually be deceived into worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) and his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) as God (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36) instead of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

The unity of mankind that will occur at that future time could be like the unity of mankind that occurred at the time of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:6). And there could even be a future equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a spiritual machine the size of the Empire State Building which will be able to send into the sky an incredibly powerful spiritual beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18/Matthew 24, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:14b, Revelation 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like:


"YHWH is now heading toward the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [compare Revelation 21:16]. He is coming to enslave you and turn you all into Borg-like automatons. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be our prison. And I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma [that is, Heaven], where you can live as gods in bliss forever, doing as you please, just as you had done with me for all ages past, before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".

Before Jesus' second coming, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist and his False Prophet use it to blow up some large asteroids and even some moons of other planets, so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes, the device will not work against YHWH (compare Psalms 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will take total victory in the battle (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).
 
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Rhamiel

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wow, stargates and portals.........sounds more like something from a science fiction movie rather than from scripture

Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

Nimrod built cities and a tower but Nimrod was agaisnt the Lord God, a mighty hunter before or in place of the Lord, agaisnt God and God saw that Nimrod was leading men down the same path as before the flood with Nimrod's idol worship and worship of himself so God confounded their language and confused them so they stopped building the tower

later Semiramus (Nimrod's wife , Queen of Babylon) attempted to continue this Nimrod worship by claiming that her pregnancy was Nimrod "reincarnated" the origins and makings of the Babylonian mystery religion

it was nothing more than men worshiping the creation rather than the creator , it had nothing to do with stargates and portals to heaven or other realms

that part about Semiramus and the "reincarnation" is not in the Bible is it?
it is not till much latter that Babylon is used as a referance to mystery religion
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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The ancient Tower of Babel, just as a future one, could be both a physical structure and a religious one, in that it could be built based on Lucifer's core religion of Gnosticism. And the Tower could also be based on what we today would call science, which in our future could come to discover the spiritual aspects of reality.

For what science is currently missing in its search for a "Theory of Everything" that can unify all the physical forces in the universe, is spirit, so that by continuing to exclude the whole idea of spirit, science can never hope to understand the universe at its most fundamental level or what its ultimate origin was: "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit . . . even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (Ecclesiastes 11:5).

The relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc^2, which means that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by the equation s=ec^2, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny photon of energy. All energy being based on spirit would make sense, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and in him everything consists (Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:28).

When science's equations regarding such things as the Big Bang singularity, black holes, and quantum entanglement require the inclusion of infinities, these infinities should not be seen as "failures" ultimately, but as pointers to something which goes beyond the boundaries of the physical, that is, spirit. If science ever becomes able to describe spirit mathematically using proportional numbers rather than infinities, this could lead to new technologies (for example, spiritual power plants, spiritual bombs), just as when science became able to describe atomic nuclei mathematically, this led to new technologies (for example, nuclear power plants, nuclear bombs).

Just as energy consists of both particles (photons) and waves (electromagnetic waves) at the same time, so the basis for all energy, spirit, could consist of both particles (spiritons) and waves at the same time. If spirit is equivalent to consciousness, and consciousness consists of logic, emotion, and memory, then spiritual waves could consist of three different sine waves (logic waves, emotion waves, and memory waves) which could be interlocked at 60-degree angles, just as electromagnetism consists of two different sine waves (electric waves and magnetic waves) interlocked at a 90-degree angle. But by our current, strictly-physical-based mathematics, a spiritual wave or spiriton would show up in a calculation as an infinity, and so it could be mistakenly rejected by our current science as a "failure". It is possible that by creating a mathematics which involves five dimensions of space-time, the apparently infinite value of a spiritual wave or spiriton could be reduced to a proportional value.

String Theory has shown that it is mathematically possible that space-time has more than three spatial dimensions. Because of observations such as Daniel 5:5, John 20:26b, and Luke 24:31b, the spiritual realm could be a fourth spatial dimension in which spiritual entities are able to move about without being seen by physical entities in our three spatial dimensions. The spiritual dimension would be higher than our three dimensions in the same sense that a third dimension is higher than two dimensions. And so from the spiritual realm, our physical realm would appear flat, just as from three dimensions, something in two dimensions would appear flat. An entity with access to the spiritual dimension could do such things as enter only part of himself into our physical realm (Daniel 5:5), or suddenly appear in a locked room (John 20:26b), or suddenly disappear (Luke 24:31b). This ability would apply not only to spiritual beings (1 Corinthians 15:44, Luke 24:39), but also to any spiritual wave or particle.

If spiritual particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science. While the Large Hadron Collider has reached a high-enough energy level so that a "God Particle" (that is, a Higgs boson) has probably manifested itself, its observed qualities might ultimately to be able to be described only by equations involving infinite values, so that its qualities and actions could ultimately be seen as "impossible" and "spooky", instead of science finally admitting to the existence of a substance which is spiritual. And spirit would not have to be seen by scientists as some weird, foreign substance, but rather as the most fundamental substance of even their own selves (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

The really sad and dangerous thing is that even if science does eventually determine that "the God Particle" is a spiritual particle, which science could come to call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in and submit themselves to YHWH God, saying that the existence of spirit does not require that there is one infinite, conscious spirit-being called YHWH God (John 4:24, Mark 12:30, Deuteronomy 6:5). And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being called Lucifer (Satan), who could manifest himself in some future, ultra-high-energy experiment and claim that he is the true, beneficent God of mankind and must be worshipped as God instead of YHWH. In this way, a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked and employed by Lucifer and his worshippers as one part of their future deception by which the world will eventually be deceived into worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) and his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) as God (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36) instead of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

The unity of mankind that will occur at that future time could be like the unity of mankind that occurred at the time of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:6). And there could even be a future equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a spiritual machine the size of the Empire State Building which will be able to send into the sky an incredibly powerful spiritual beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18/Matthew 24, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:14b, Revelation 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like:


"YHWH is now heading toward the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [compare Revelation 21:16]. He is coming to enslave you and turn you all into Borg-like automatons. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be our prison. And I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma [that is, Heaven], where you can live as gods in bliss forever, doing as you please, just as you had done with me for all ages past, before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".

Before Jesus' second coming, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist and his False Prophet use it to blow up some large asteroids and even some moons of other planets, so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes, the device will not work against YHWH (compare Psalms 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will take total victory in the battle (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

QFT ! I have been watching the new show on the science channel called Through The Wormhole. The things that science has learned to do is absolutely amazing. The Bible says in Hosea that my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. In watching that show, scripture comes to me just like you posted here. We know that we are headed for a type of(for lack of a better word) a climax in our physical existence. And science is very rapidly advancing. There is no doubt in my mind that the things you wrote about are fast becoming plausible. Thanks for your input.
 
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Ecclectic79

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Bible2:

While I wouldn't recommend it for accuracy, I did read (in a different time and psychological place) both Seth Speaks and Nature of Personal Reality - both Jane Roberts channeled message books. This kind of thinking in respect to multiple levels of reality, 'camouflages' sometimes laced through each other, alternate realities, and reality itself distilling down to symbols - a lot of this does seem to come back around albeit I definitely would not trust the core message of what I read at this point.

I've heard mention as well that while the physical is what one would consider a 'vector plane' the psychic as well as the extra-physical senses are what's considered a 'scalar plane' - I'm not sure how that works.

I do believe we live in a fully holographic universe where matter is really more akin to bits of data and qualia/parameters from how we're used to thinking of it, albeit at the same time that doesn't make the consequences any less 'real' (Johnathon Edwards - Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God) but it does at least open up our understanding of what the metaphysical structure could be. To trust anything though, IMHO, it takes a bit of triangulation between different sources and of course, always, the bible.
 
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Manasseh_

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that part about Semiramus and the "reincarnation" is not in the Bible is it?
it is not till much latter that Babylon is used as a referance to mystery religion

you are correct but there is much historical documentation about this, Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons" is a good place to start although there has been quite a bit of research done on this...........I only suggested this book because the copyright has expired and you can easily get a copy online
 
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Manasseh_

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..Moses story for example has some truly amazing things going on...how do you visualize all those miraculous events...why would building a portal or star-gate be unbelievable.
so in effect what you are suggesting whether intentional or unintentional is that God feared that if these men were successful in building this portal or stargate that they could enter God's sacred realm so God stopped them from doing this by confounding their languages so that one could not understand another...............now just how absurd does this premise really sound ?

Christ said no man has ascended to heaven except himself and that no man has ever heard God's voice or seen his shape and he made clear that flesh and bloood cannot inherit God's kingdom

I believe when Moses wrote of Nimrod and made witness that he was a man against God meaning that Nimrod did not keep God's commandments and was lead by his own flesh to worship idols and allow others to even worship him and by example was teaching others to do the same thing,, break God's commandments , that this is the reason why God did what he did , just as any other example in scripture when God is angered with men who disobey him

so far I haven't found any examples where God was fearful of what men are capable of , especially this science fiction premise of building portals or stargates to the spirit realm........all the examples I have as reference are always in relation to disobedience to God
 
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Ecclectic79

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so in effect what you are suggesting whether intentional or unintentional is that God feared that if these men were successful in building this portal or stargate that they could enter God's sacred realm so God stopped them from doing this by confounding their languages so that one could not understand another...............now just how absurd does this premise really sound ?

Christ said no man has ascended to heaven except himself and that no man has ever heard God's voice or seen his shape and he made clear that flesh and bloood cannot inherit God's kingdom

Remember, you have three heavens. Earth is the 1st, astral would be the 2nd (Satan's kingdom) and God's - who no one can enter aside from by Christ, is the 3rd heaven. I don't know what it was that Nimrod thought they could do, one would think common sense dictates 'absolutely nothing' unless all of this behavior was fed by delusions fed to Nimrod by the power by which he started to become mighty (Nephilimized)

I believe when Moses wrote of Nimrod and made witness that he was a man against God meaning that Nimrod did not keep God's commandments and was lead by his own flesh to worship idols and allow others to even worship him and by example was teaching others to do the same thing,, break God's commandments , that this is the reason why God did what he did , just as any other example in scripture when God is angered with men who disobey him
I'm taking it that on Genesis 6 you're of the Sethite view rather than the angelic view regarding the 'sons of God'? If that's the case, I think that's probably why all of this would sound woo and crazy to you.

so far I haven't found any examples where God was fearful of what men are capable of , especially this science fiction premise of building portals or stargates to the spirit realm........all the examples I have as reference are always in relation to disobedience to God
I think he was fearful of Nimrod leading that many people to eternal damnation. It would really be a stroke of mercy.

You also have Mike Heiser who asserts that Elohim's been cited as plural, and for those who didn't want to worship him but rather the lesser Elohim he pretty much said 'Fine, go with the flunkies - they can govern over you' hence each lower-case g god took a province and territory. There was a stroy in one of the Samuel's of a Syrian wanting to take the dirt of Israel/Canaan back to his temple and that spiritual turf standoff was cited as part of the reason why that would hold relevance. I'm still agnostic on Heiser's theory but it could be something.
 
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Manasseh_

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2 babylons is not a very scholarly book
many things in it have nothing to back them up


LoL, now I wonder why a catholic would make such an unfounded statement about Hislop's book provided that at the time so many historians gave such validation and commendation for his hard work and research that went into his book................methinks it's obvious why when you consider his evidence against the RCC and how it adopted so many of the pagan rituals and rites and stamped "christian" on them.......... which had their origins in the Babylonian mystery religion....... found in this book.......

how many "our fathers" are you going to have to say for bearing false witness against a man who only presented historical facts ??

 
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Rhamiel

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well one thing I can think off the top of my head is the when Hislop compared the devotion to the Christ child with the ancient pagan worship of Jupiter as a child
Jupiter-puer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the problem is, there is not one primary source used for this
no ancient writing consulted, no archeological sources showing idols or shrines
not even a medieval account of ancient Roman History

so either Hislop had a time machine or he just made it up because he thought it sounded cool
 
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