Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

[Douggg]

And why do some of you give the impression His baptism was far more significant than Him going to the cross?

Anointing the most Holy, I think is when God places Jesus as the King of Kings to rule from Mt. Zion when Jesus Returns to end the 70 weeks.

It is going to be the most awesome day in creation.

I get that from Psalms 2.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

 

[mkgal1]

• Anointing the most Holy, I think is when God places Jesus as the King of Kings to rule from Mt. Zion when Jesus Returns to end the 70 weeks.

Sorry.....but opinions don't make things True to Scripture.

The 490 years ended a long time ago. It's basic math and basic Christianity.

 

[Douggg]

Sorry.....but opinions don't make things True to Scripture.

The 490 years ended a long time ago. It's basic math and basic Christianity.

Well, when do you think Psalms 2 takes place, in the future or in the past?

 

[jeffweedaman]

Anointing the most Holy, I think is when God places Jesus as the King of Kings to rule from Mt. Zion when Jesus Returns to end the 70 weeks.

It is going to be the most awesome day in creation.

I get that from Psalms 2.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

This is not future Doug.


Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.



Heb 1

1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?

 

[mkgal1]

Well, when do you think Psalms 2 takes place, in the future or in the past?

Jesus is already glorified as King of Kings and Lord of Lord's. This is fulfilled.

Commentary of Psalm 2
Psalm 2:1-4. Herod, the fox, plotted against Christ, to hinder the course of his ministry and mediatorship, but he could not perform his enterprise; 'tis so all along, therefore it is said, "Why do the heathen imagine a vain thing?" A vain thing, because a thing successless, their hands could not perform it. It was vain, not only because there was no true ground of reason why they should imagine or do such a thing, but vain also because they laboured in vain, they could not do it, and therefore it follows, "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." The Lord sees what fools they are, and men (yea, themselves) shall see it. The prophet gives us a elegant description to this purpose.

Isaiah 59:5, 6. "They weave the spider's web. … Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works." As if he had said, they have been devising and setting things in a goodly frame to catch flies; they have been spinning a fine thread out of their brains, as the spider doth out of her bowels; such is their web, but when they have their web they cannot cut it out, or make it up into a garment.

They shall go naked and cold, notwithstanding all their spinning and weaving, all their plotting and devising. The next broom that comes will sweep away all their webs and the spiders too, except they creep apace.

God loves and delights to cross worldly proverbs and worldly craft. ~Joseph Caryl, 1647.

Psalm 2:1-2 is quoted in Acts 4:25-26

25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant,c our father David:

‘Why do the nations rage

and the peoples plot in vain?26The kings of the earth take their stand

and the rulers gather together

against the Lord

and against His Anointed One.’d​

 

[DavidPT]

Both need to happen to make it all significant......Gods own arm will bring about salvation.

Both did happen, regardless. So I'm not even certain what the issue is here? But I do still find it somewhat problematic, that when Jesus was cut off, this is meaning during the gap rather than during any of the 70 weeks instead, if I'm going to be honest here. Yet, verse 27 undeniably proves to me that there has to be a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, the fact that entire verse involves the 70th week, though I realize many of you won't admit that, that all of verse 27 involves the 70th week.

Speaking of being honest, you at least need to admit that many of you are adding to the text in verse 27 things not even present in the text. Once the midst of the week has been accomplished, half of that week has been accounted for. What about the other half, where is that accounted for if not via what is written in the remainder of that verse?

A) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself(verse 26)----And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(verse 27)


BTW, do you disagree that these go together like such, assuming your position? If you don't disagree, can you point out in A) where it ever mentions what happens in the remainder of the week? I don't see anything like that in the text myself. It seems odd to me to first inform us that the one meant here shall confirm the covenant with many for one week, then only mention what happens during the first half and not the 2nd half as well. A) above doesn't even tell us what causes the 70th week to end. Why is it silent on that? Or is it really? After all, there is more recorded in verse 27 than disclosed in A) above. Maybe that tells us how it ends.

 

[Douggg]

This is not future Doug.


Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.



Heb 1

1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?

In context, Psalms 2 will be taking place here on earth, because the heathen will be raging and imaging a vain thing.

Ezekiel 39:17-21

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus is already glorified as King of Kings and Lord of Lord's. This is fulfilled.

Commentary of Psalm 2
Psalm 2:1-4. Herod, the fox, plotted against Christ, to hinder the course of his ministry and mediatorship, but he could not perform his enterprise; 'tis so all along, therefore it is said, "Why do the heathen imagine a vain thing?" A vain thing, because a thing successless, their hands could not perform it. It was vain, not only because there was no true ground of reason why they should imagine or do such a thing, but vain also because they laboured in vain, they could not do it, and therefore it follows, "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." The Lord sees what fools they are, and men (yea, themselves) shall see it. The prophet gives us a elegant description to this purpose.

Isaiah 59:5, 6. "They weave the spider's web. … Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works." As if he had said, they have been devising and setting things in a goodly frame to catch flies; they have been spinning a fine thread out of their brains, as the spider doth out of her bowels; such is their web, but when they have their web they cannot cut it out, or make it up into a garment.

They shall go naked and cold, notwithstanding all their spinning and weaving, all their plotting and devising. The next broom that comes will sweep away all their webs and the spiders too, except they creep apace.

God loves and delights to cross worldly proverbs and worldly craft. ~Joseph Caryl, 1647.

Psalm 2:1-2 is quoted in Acts 4:25-26

25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant,c our father David:

‘Why do the nations rage

and the peoples plot in vain?26The kings of the earth take their stand

and the rulers gather together

against the Lord

and against His Anointed One.’d​

Yes, they quoted Psalms 2 in Acts 4 in their prayer to God in verse 24-25, but they were not saying that Psalms 2 was being fulfilled at that time, only in a likeness to what was written in Psalms 2, because the religious leaders were threatening them from continuing to preach and heal in Jesus's name.

29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

 

[keras]

Why???


You continue to ignore the scripture posted...,

but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

He fulfilled it all through his sacrifice. His sacrifice puts away the judgment for our sins past present or those that we may commit before he appears a second time in the future.. That leaves a blessed hope for the repentant for salvation at his second appearing.

This is a classic example of self contradiction!
You say Jesus put away sins by His sacrifice, then you say our hope is His Return, when our sins will be forgiven.
This is how it must be, as sins will continue to be committed until He does Return, then all the survivors will go into the sinless Millennium.

For now; Satan rages around deceiving even the elect, but Jesus will chain him up at His Return.
The idea that sins are 'put away' now is laughable.

 

[keras]

See post 1175.

100% opinion and 0% scriptural proof.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

That rules out most of the church period. The church has nothing to do with Daniel 9?

The church has obviously benefited greatly from what Christ accomplished in fulfilling Daniel 9:24-27. There would be no Christian church without His death and resurrection, obviously.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I have to admit, this is a good point. But that doesn't mean there can't be a gap in the 70 weeks then.

Not necessarily, I suppose. But, there certainly isn't anything within Daniel 9:24-27 itself that suggests there would ever be a gap at any point during the 70 weeks.

It would mean that the gap is not between the 69th week and 70th week after all,

That's the point I'm trying to make to people like Douggg and others who think that the 70th week hasn't even begun yet. At least you are willing to acknowledge the point I'm making about the need for Christ's death and resurrection to have occurred during 1 of the 70 weeks.

I obviously disagree with you that any of the 70th week is still to be fulfilled, but I have to take what I can get sometimes, so I'm glad we at least agree that Jesus was cut off (crucified) during the 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What 'after' means in plain English is; at the completion of.....

No, it does not. No one who knows English would agree with you on that. This is a blatant case of redefining a simple word in order to get something to fit your doctrine.

I contend Jesus was 'cut off' on the day the 69th 'week' was completed.

That was not AFTER the 69th week was completed, which is what the prophecy says. You are failing English 101 here.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Spiritual Jew asserted only that which is in a 7 year time frame qualified.

The gap is just as important, so what all the fuss over gaps? You all like to argue over insignificant aspects of dotting "i's" and crossing "t's".

Please don't try to speak for me. You clearly don't understand the point I'm making, so just let me speak for myself.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is a rude and unjustifiable accusation.
What I said was that the 69th 'week' ended when Jesus was hailed as King in Jerusalem. He was 'cut off' 3 days after that.
But that 3 days was not part of the 70th 'week'. That 7 year period will come in the end times, as so well described in Revelation.
Your belief of it all being in the past, is the real scriptural contradiction.

I'm not being rude and not making an unjustifiable accusation at all. You have said many times now that you believe He was cut off at the end (or "essentially" at the end) of the 69th week rather than after the 69th week. So, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is for you to try to say that He was cut off "essentially" at the end of the 69th week even though it clearly says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week. You are trying to redefine the word "after" to suit your doctrine and that is shameful.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is not future Doug.


Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.



Heb 1

1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?

Exactly right. We need to allow the New Testament to give us the fulfillments of Old Testament prophecies whenever possible. This is a prime example of that. We don't have to wonder or guess what Psalm 2 is about. The New Testament shows us what it is about.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Both did happen, regardless. So I'm not even certain what the issue is here? But I do still find it somewhat problematic, that when Jesus was cut off, this is meaning during the gap rather than during any of the 70 weeks instead, if I'm going to be honest here. Yet, verse 27 undeniably proves to me that there has to be a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, the fact that entire verse involves the 70th week, though I realize many of you won't admit that, that all of verse 27 involves the 70th week.

Speaking of being honest, you at least need to admit that many of you are adding to the text in verse 27 things not even present in the text. Once the midst of the week has been accomplished, half of that week has been accounted for. What about the other half, where is that accounted for if not via what is written in the remainder of that verse?

I don't appreciate the accusation here that those who disagree with you on this are being dishonest and aren't willing to admit it. That's a false accusation. Some of us just disagree with your interpretation of the text. No matter how strongly you feel you are correct here, it's still just your opinion and not a fact. There's nothing we need to admit since there's no proven fact here that we're refusing to admit is true.

A) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself(verse 26)----And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(verse 27)

BTW, do you disagree that these go together like such, assuming your position? If you don't disagree, can you point out in A) where it ever mentions what happens in the remainder of the week? I don't see anything like that in the text myself.

There's also nothing specific about a gap within the text, either, so we should all be willing to acknowledge that we are reading things into the text that aren't specifically stated. We all do that with certain passages since not everything is always all spelled out for us in a given passage.

 

[DavidPT]

so I'm glad we at least agree that Jesus was cut off (crucified) during the 70th week.

Actually I haven't yet committed to agreeing with that. I was basically considering what it might mean instead, thus reasoning things out loud, that assuming He was cut off in the midst of the 70 the week.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is a classic example of self contradiction!
You say Jesus put away sins by His sacrifice, then you say our hope is His Return, when our sins will be forgiven.

This is another one of your unique views that probably no one else in the world agrees with. You are denying a fundamental truth of Christianity here. If none of our sins are forgiven yet then how can we say that we are Christians? If our sins are not forgiven then there's no difference between us and non-Christians.

Mark 2:1 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Was Jesus wrong here to tell the paralyzed man that his sins were forgiven? You apparently would say that that man's sins won't be forgiven until Jesus returns. Jesus told him his sins were forgiven right then and there. Who should we believe? Jesus or you?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Actually I haven't yet committed to agreeing with that. I was basically considering what it might mean instead, thus reasoning things out loud, that assuming He was cut off in the midst of the 70 the week.

I thought you said before (in some other thread) that you thought only the second half of the 70th week was yet to be fulfilled? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.