Was Judas Iscariot saved?

theseed said:

I've heard from someone that the bible lends to the possibilty that Judas Iscariot might have been saved as he was going to hang himself. Has anyone heard about this? I suppose, here too, only God knows.

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He wasn't saved. It says in Jn. I don't know what verse, that he was a devil.

alwayselearning said:

He wasn't saved. It says in Jn. I don't know what verse, that he was a devil.

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Don't you mean son of perdition?

Bulldog said:

Don't you mean son of perdition?

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Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
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Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

I believe that Judas will be granted repentance for the following reasons:

1) he was never given the holy spirit - that occured on Pentacost after Jesus' death. For instance look at the transformation of Peter from when he was in his unaided existance (denying Christ) to afterward (happy to be beaten for preaching Christ).

2) Judas' actions were totally consistant with being human. While I can't say that I sold someone to death for money, there are things I have done in anger, pride or vanity that have hurt others from which I had to truely repent - and I have the spirit.

3) Maybe Judas didn't have the "right" repentance, but he did want to pull back the hands of time.

4) God, in the book of Jeremiah for instance, makes a point of saying to Isreal, you have sinned against me and sinned against me and now I will reject you and you will no longer be my people and you shall be scattered across the earth - a total rejection right. But even then, he finished by saying that he will come for them, taking them from the hills and from the corners of the earth and they will be his people again. From this I take it that God is merciful, and even those who he says, "I have nothing to do with you" because of thier constant acts against God, for those who seek him out, he will be there.

This is why, in whatever interpretation of the throne of judgement, that Judas will be given another chance. That if he wishes to turn to God, it will be available to him.

Perhaps I am the only one - but certainly I have had the spirit given to me, I have known Jesus and his sacrifice for me and yet I have sinned...willingly. Yes, I repented but how then can I look down on Judas

theseed said:

I've heard from someone that the bible lends to the possibilty that Judas Iscariot might have been saved as he was going to hang himself. Has anyone heard about this? I suppose, here too, only God knows.

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It would seem pretty vindictive if Jesus died for lots of other sinners and missed Judas out.
The christian faith would virtually demand that Judas was saved, just like the rest of us.
David

dnich163 said:

It would seem pretty vindictive if Jesus died for lots of other sinners and missed Judas out.
The christian faith would virtually demand that Judas was saved, just like the rest of us.
David

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So is everyone saved then?

Why did God owe Judas salvation? Does he owe it to you?

We need to stop making God into our likeness with our definitions of "fair" .

What is fair is that we all burn in hades

rnmomof7 said:

So is everyone saved then?

Why did God owe Judas salvation? Does he owe it to you?

We need to stop making God into our likeness with our definitions of "fair" .

What is fair is that we all burn in hades

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So, it was/is unfair for God to save anyone. You have determined that it is fair only if he burns everyone. We really do need to stop trying to make God into our likeness.We should even take our own advice and stop doing it ourselves.

With that in mind, why should you be the one to deternine what is fair... You have stated that what is fair is that we all burn in hell. God certaintly did not utilized your concept of fairness. All will not burn in hell, are you suggesting that God is not fair?

Was/is it fair that God choose some and burn the rest. Is it fair if God offers salvation to all men and accept only those that accept his offer.

Appearently it is not fair that all burn in hell. Neither is it right in God's eyes that all burn in hell. God always does what is right....

mpshiel said:

I believe that Judas will be granted repentance for the following reasons:

1) he was never given the holy spirit - that occured on Pentacost after Jesus' death. For instance look at the transformation of Peter from when he was in his unaided existance (denying Christ) to afterward (happy to be beaten for preaching Christ).

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Is everyone without the Holy Spirit saved because they did not receive Him?
Did all men in the world receive the Holy Spirit that day ? Or was it only the men that Jesus had SELECTED as His disciples ?

There is no 2nd opportunity . If you die unsaved you stay unsaved .
There is no support in scripture to the belief that Judas was saved.

2) Judas' actions were totally consistant with being human. While I can't say that I sold someone to death for money, there are things I have done in anger, pride or vanity that have hurt others from which I had to truely repent - and I have the spirit.

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Being human is no excuse and it gets no one saved.
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But that does not mean that God has mercy on all men .

The issue is DID Judas have a godly repentance ?

Consider this scripture.

2Cr 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Cr 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, [what] clearing of yourselves, yea, [what] indignation, yea, [what] fear, yea, [what] vehement desire, yea, [what] zeal, yea, [what] revenge! In all [things] ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Who "made " them sorry?

The answer is found in scripture. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin . God sends the Holy Spirit . It is God that gives repentance no sorry as the world gives sorrow .

Act 11:18** When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

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3) Maybe Judas didn't have the "right" repentance, but he did want to pull back the hands of time.

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It is not unusual for a guilty man to desire to undo what he had done . That does not mean he repents the act, only the unpleasant result.

4) God, in the book of Jeremiah for instance, makes a point of saying to Isreal, you have sinned against me and sinned against me and now I will reject you and you will no longer be my people and you shall be scattered across the earth - a total rejection right. But even then, he finished by saying that he will come for them, taking them from the hills and from the corners of the earth and they will be his people again. From this I take it that God is merciful, and even those who he says, "I have nothing to do with you" because of thier constant acts against God, for those who seek him out, he will be there.

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I would like the citation on this.
I believe in context this is talking about the dispersion of Israel and their re-gathering into the land .
Paul makes clear that not of all Israel will be saved.

"All that are Israel are not Israel "

This is why, in whatever interpretation of the throne of judgement, that Judas will be given another chance. That if he wishes to turn to God, it will be available to him.

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That is not a Christian doctrine AT ALL .

That is the doctrine of some non Christian churches (Mormon and Armstrong .)

The Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present to God .

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Perhaps I am the only one - but certainly I have had the spirit given to me, I have known Jesus and his sacrifice for me and yet I have sinned...willingly. Yes, I repented but how then can I look down on Judas

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Judas did not have the Holy Spirit .

2 Timothy 2:11-13

"If we died with him, we will also live with him;
If we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, he will also disown us;
If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

Now, I will not judge Judas. Nor myself.

Chappie said:

So, it was/is unfair for God to save anyone. You have determined that it is fair only if he burns everyone. We really do need to stop trying to make God into our likeness.We should even take our own advice and stop doing it ourselves.

With that in mind, why should you be the one to deternine what is fair... You have stated that what is fair is that we all burn in hell. God certaintly did not utilized your concept of fairness. All will not burn in hell, are you suggesting that God is not fair?

Was/is it fair that God choose some and burn the rest. Is it fair if God offers salvation to all men and accept only those that accept his offer.

Appearently it is not fair that all burn in hell. Neither is it right in God's eyes that all burn in hell. God always does what is right....

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God decided that not one man deserves to be saved. That is why he sent Jesus to be a propitiation for sin.

No God is NOT Fair..He is God.

Fairness is a word the devil uses. It implies that for any man not to get what his neighbor has , is not "fair "
God does not need to be "fair" That is not given as one of His immutable characteristics .

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have mercy"

God was completely "fair" when he destroyed the population of the world , every man got what he "deserved"


Yes all men deserve to be sent to Hell. That is why we call It MERCY .

Look up the word.

Your position makes man worthy of standing in the presence of God..

You may be worthy and god may be fair in saving you because you deserve it . I am a sinner saved by grace , so I know mercy personally

cbk said:

2 Timothy 2:11-13

"If we died with him, we will also live with him;
If we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, he will also disown us;
If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

Now, I will not judge Judas. Nor myself.

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That sounds very noble and PC, but it is not scripture .

Read that Timothy verse and realize it is speaking of the saved.

We died with Him when we repented and believed .

Judas never died with Him.


This was the final judgment of Christ , who will judge the world !

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

The Bible tells us to make judgments

We can not just make stuff us as we go along or make it how we think it should be .

rnmomof7 said:

That sounds very noble and PC, but it is not scripture .

Read that Timothy verse and realize it is speaking of the saved.

We died with Him when we repented and believed .

Judas never died with Him.


Was was the final judgment of Christ , who will judge the world ?

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

The Bible tells us to make judgments

We can not just make stuff us as we go along or make it how we think it should be .

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You are taking my post out of context...

I never said that Judas died in Christ.
I never said Judas endured for Christ.
In fact, I believe Judas disowned Christ.

But, at one time, Peter disowned Christ as well.... Therefore, it is possible, that Judas MAY HAVE returned, BUT I DOUBT IT.. But, my doubt is not a 100% guarantee... This is all I am saying... Save judgement for God.

Only one thing to his credit, Judas did try to reverse what he did.

In regards to suicide, Samson is in the same light. I was not trying to use the above scripture to support Judas, on the contrary, I was using it against him.

cbk said:

You are taking my post out of context...

I never said that Judas died in Christ.
I never said Judas endured for Christ.
In fact, I believe Judas disowned Christ.

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It was implied by the scripture.

If I misread your meaning I am sorry.[/quote]

But, at one time, Peter disowned Christ as well.... Therefore, it is possible, that Judas MAY HAVE returned, BUT I DOUBT IT.. But, my doubt is not a 100% guarantee... This is all I am saying... Save judgement for God.[/quote]

Peter did not betray Christ , He denied him. There is a difference there.

IMO There is not one wit of scripture that indicates that Judas is saved. In fact quite the opposite.

Jesus indicated all along that Judas was not of His. He said plainly that he was not a son of God but a son of perdition . He said it would have been better if he had never been born .
That is a clear indication that Jesus knew the end of Judas.

Only one thing to his credit, Judas did try to reverse what he did.

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We really do not know why he did that . We are not told if he thought it would reverse the outcome. It would seem common sense says he should have know it could not be stopped.

So more likely it was all about him. Nor Christ .

I would refer you back to Hebrews where it says Esau sought repentance with tears and "found it not"
There is sorrow the world gives and then there there is true repentance.

In regards to suicide, Samson is in the same light. I was not trying to use the above scripture to support Judas, on the contrary, I was using it against him.

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I never mentioned sucide

rnmomof7 said:

So is everyone saved then?............What is fair is that we all burn in hades

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I think this is rubbish and totally against the christian concept of salvation and redemption.
The god of vengeance of the OT was superceded by Jesus.
The beatitudes are the "new" commandment I give to you.

Your God would frighten people into going to church to worship.
My understanding is a god of forgiveness and understanding, of love.

David

In regards to Judas.

Matthew 27:3-4 "When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was SEIZED with remorse ad returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 'I have sinned,' he said, 'for I have betrayed innocent blood.'"

Seems, we can see, that

1) Judas was seized with remorse when he saw that Jesus was condemned. (Maybe because he did not think Jesus would be put to death?)

2) Judas knew he had sinned.

3) Judas tried to make atonement.

From my understanding of the Word, it seems unlikely that Judas accepted or even understood the real reason for Christ's coming. This and the fact that he committed suicide makes it seem unlikely that Judas was saved. However, the Word says that during the three day period Christ visited hell, or at least that place reserved for those who had gone before and therefore could not have known the fullness of God's grace. This was to fulfill the promise to the believers before Christ's arrival that they would indeed see the Son of God and have the chance to believe in him. Since Judas preceeded Christ in death it is possible that he had a second chance to accept Christ as His Lord and Savior. As to whether he did accept I guess we will not know until that time when we meet all those who have been accepted in that glorious place.

dnich163 said:

I think this is rubbish and totally against the christian concept of salvation and redemption.
The god of vengeance of the OT was superceded by Jesus.
The beatitudes are the "new" commandment I give to you.


David

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God was always and is always a God of JUSTICE and MERCY .


God does not change . In the OT people were saved by faith .

In the NT people are saved by faith .

Mal 3:6** For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hbr 1:12** And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Hbr 13:8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

* Jam 1:17** Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

We do not have 2 different Gods with two different natures.

There is one God. In Justice He destroyed the earth and all but a remnant. In the end He will come in Justice , this earth will be no more

The beatitudes are not for the unsaved. Like the commandments no man can keep them perfectly.

That was a teaching that Jesus gave to the disciples.

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,



The Commandments reflect the Holiness of God , The beatitudes reflect the holiness of God ( no man can keep them)

Mar 12:33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Can you keep this Law? This encapsulates the ten commandments and we know that the purpose of those commandment were to show us sin and let us know we need a savior. This is no different .

Justice and Mercy are the 2 sides of the same coin.

If there was no justice there could be no Mercy

Do you believe in universal salvation? Is God going to overlook all the evil of men and save them even if they rebuke Him?

Your God would frighten people into going to church to worship.
My understanding is a god of forgiveness and understanding, of love.

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You give me far too much credit.
Please read "Sinners in the hands of an angry God ".

That very harsh sermon drove men to their knees in repentance and began the "Great Awakening "

A god that hands out balloons and asks nothing, is a plastic god .

Those that would run from the God of the Bible may be the tares that God will pull up out of the church in the final judgment and throw into the fire.

cbk said:

In regards to Judas.

Matthew 27:3-4 "When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was SEIZED with remorse ad returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 'I have sinned,' he said, 'for I have betrayed innocent blood.'"

Seems, we can see, that

1) Judas was seized with remorse when he saw that Jesus was condemned. (Maybe because he did not think Jesus would be put to death?)

2) Judas knew he had sinned.

3) Judas tried to make atonement.

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This is from a Bible commentary on your observations

Verse 3. Then Judas, which had betrayed him,.... Before, he is described as he that shall, or should, or doth betray him; but now having perpetrated the horrid sin, as he that had done it.

When he saw that he was condemned; that is, that Jesus was condemned, as the Syriac and Persic versions read, either by the Jewish sanhedrim, or by Pilate, or both; for this narrative concerning Judas may be prophetically inserted here, though the thing itself did not come to pass till afterwards; and the sense be, that when he, either being present during the whole procedure against Christ; or returning in the morning after he had received his money, and had been with his friends; finding that his master was condemned to death by the sanhedrim, who were pushing hard to take away his life; that they had delivered him bound to the Roman governor; and that he, after an examination of him, had committed him to the soldiers to mock, and scourge, and crucify him; and seeing him leading to the place of execution,

repented himself: not for the sin, as committed against God and Christ; but as it brought a load of present guilt and horror upon his mind, and exposed him to everlasting punishment: it was not such a repentance by which he became wiser and better; but an excruciating, tormenting pain in his mind, by which he became worse; therefore a different word is here used than what commonly is for true repentance: it was not a godly sorrow for sin, or a sorrow for sin, as committed against God, which works repentance to salvation not to be repented of; but a worldly sorrow, which issues in death, as it did in him. It did not spring from the love of God, as evangelical repentance does, nor proceed in the fear of God, and his goodness; but was no other than a foretaste of that worm that dieth not, and of that fire which cannot be quenched: it was destitute of faith in Christ; he never did believe in him as the rest of the disciples did; see John 6:64, and that mourning which does not arise from looking to Jesus, or is not attended with faith in him, is never genuine. Judas's repentance was without hope of forgiveness, and was nothing else but horror and black despair, like that of Cain's, like the trembling of devils, and the anguish of ****** souls. It looks as if Judas was not aware that it would issue in the death of Christ: he was pushed on by Satan, and his avarice, to hope, that he should get this money, and yet his master escape; which he imagined he might do, either through such a defence of himself, as was not to be gainsaid; or that he would find out ways and means of getting out of the hands of the Jews, as he had formerly done, and with which Judas was acquainted: but now, there being no hope of either, guilt and horror seize his mind, and gnaw his conscience; and he wishes he had never done the accursed action, which had entailed so much distress and misery upon him:

and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders: which was the sum he; had covenanted for, and they had agreed to give him, on condition of delivering Jesus into their hands, which he had done: and it appears from hence, that the money had been accordingly paid him, and he had received it. But he being filled with remorse of conscience for what he had done, feels no quietness in his mind; nor could he save of what he had desired, but is obliged to return it; not from an honest principle, as in the case of true repentance, but on account of a racking and torturing conscience.

Verse 4. Saying, I have sinned,.... Here was a confession, and yet no true repentance; for he confessed, but not to the right persons; not to God, nor Christ, but to the chief priests and elders; nor over the head of the antitypical scape goat, not seeking to Christ for pardon and cleansing, nor did he confess and forsake sin, but went on adding sin to sin, and so found no mercy. The same confession was made by a like hardened wretch, Pharaoh, Exodus 9:27. He proceeds and points out the evil he had committed:

in that I have betrayed innocent blood, or "righteous blood"; so the Vulgate Latin, and Syriac versions, and Munster's Hebrew Gospel read, and some copies; that is, have betrayed an innocent and righteous person, and been the occasion of his blood being about to be shed, and of his dying wrongfully. So God, in his all-wise providence, ordered it, that a testimony should be bore to the innocence of Christ, from the mouth of this vile wretch that betrayed him; to cut off the argument from the Jews, that one of his own disciples knew him to be a wicked man, and as such delivered him into their hands: for though Judas might not believe in him as the Messiah, and the Son of God, at least had no true faith in him, as such; yet he knew, and believed in his own conscience, that he was a good man, and a righteous and innocent one: and what he here says is a testimony of Christ's innocence, and what his conscience obliged him to; and shows the terrors that now encompassed him about; and might have been a warning to the Jews to have stopped all further proceedings against him; but instead of that,

they said, what is that to us? see thou to that: signifying, that if he had sinned, he must answer for it himself; it was no concern of theirs; nor should they form their sentiments of Christ according to his: they knew that he was a blasphemer, and deserving of death; and whatever opinion he had of him, it had no weight with them, who should proceed against him as an evildoer, let him think or say what he would to the contrary; and suggest, that he knew otherwise than what he said: so the Syriac and Persic versions render it, "thou knowest," and the Arabic, "thou knowest better."

Gill

cleaveun2him said:

From my understanding of the Word, it seems unlikely that Judas accepted or even understood the real reason for Christ's coming. This and the fact that he committed suicide makes it seem unlikely that Judas was saved. However, the Word says that during the three day period Christ visited hell, or at least that place reserved for those who had gone before and therefore could not have known the fullness of God's grace. This was to fulfill the promise to the believers before Christ's arrival that they would indeed see the Son of God and have the chance to believe in him. Since Judas preceeded Christ in death it is possible that he had a second chance to accept Christ as His Lord and Savior. As to whether he did accept I guess we will not know until that time when we meet all those who have been accepted in that glorious place.

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You are right , he did not believe in Christ as did the other apostles

John 6
64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.

I beleive judas iscariot to have been taken over by satan... if this is so, then Judas did not make it to heaven.