GodLovesCats
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There's two other people who didn't sin, The Holy Spirit, and The Father.
I just read colors response to you.Where does that dogma come from? Does the Bible say Mary was sinless?
I know that Jesus was tempted in every way, yet did not sin. From conception He had the seed of the Father. Thus He was born of God.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
This means those that receive the baptism of the Spirit have the "seed of God" in them. But there are two others I'm curious about.
What about John the Baptist. He received the Holy Spirit while in Elizabeth's womb.
And what about Enoch who walked with God, and He took him.
Were John the Baptist and Enoch considered sinners by God, and did they ever sin while on earth?
I know that Jesus was tempted in every way, yet did not sin. From conception He had the seed of the Father. Thus He was born of God.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
This means those that receive the baptism of the Spirit have the "seed of God" in them. But there are two others I'm curious about.
What about John the Baptist. He received the Holy Spirit while in Elizabeth's womb.
And what about Enoch who walked with God, and He took him.
Were John the Baptist and Enoch considered sinners by God, and did they ever sin while on earth?
I don't equate "does not sin" with behaves perfectly 100% of the time. I believe sin is unbelief. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, you have believed God and the Holy Spirit has come to indwell you. Therefore, since God is "not counting men's sins (2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 4:8)" against us and our sins and lawless acts He "remembers no more (Hebrews 10:17)," we are without sin from God's point of view. If He held our sins against us, then He could not indwell us.I know that Jesus was tempted in every way, yet did not sin. From conception He had the seed of the Father. Thus He was born of God.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
This means those that receive the baptism of the Spirit have the "seed of God" in them. But there are two others I'm curious about.
What about John the Baptist. He received the Holy Spirit while in Elizabeth's womb.
And what about Enoch who walked with God, and He took him.
Were John the Baptist and Enoch considered sinners by God, and did they ever sin while on earth?
"Whatever is not of faith is sin". Transgression was not imputed to people prior to the Law but that does not mean that they did not sin. If they are descended from Adam, they inherit the sin nature. For sure there are people who are amazingly close to God. But even the elite (Elijah having a meltdown, David's adultery and murder) can sin and fail. John the Baptist had a problem with doubt. He questioned if Jesus was really the Messiah. There is none who is righteous inherently. Except the Lord Jesus.I think we can toss Abel and Elijah in the mix here too.
Abel and Enoch were pre-Mosaic Law, so "for where no law is, there is no transgression." (Rom 4:15)
Elijah...Didn't die, but was taken away ala Enoch.
And as you pointed out, John had the Spirit of God from the womb.
I don't think any of the four committed sin.
Paul's Romans 3 writings of "all have committed sin" and "no not one" were quotes of OT writers designed to show the Jews of his day that they too needed the Savior.
Most of the quotes were from Rom. 3 are David's description of those who persecuted him in his flight from Saul, and, arguably, not intended for any one else, past or future. IMHO
Generally speaking, all men sin until they are converted, but God can still do as He pleases to get things done to satisfy prophesy or some other preordained future.
I know that Jesus was tempted in every way, yet did not sin. From conception He had the seed of the Father. Thus He was born of God.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
This means those that receive the baptism of the Spirit have the "seed of God" in them. But there are two others I'm curious about.
What about John the Baptist. He received the Holy Spirit while in Elizabeth's womb.
And what about Enoch who walked with God, and He took him.
Were John the Baptist and Enoch considered sinners by God, and did they ever sin while on earth?
No, Paul didn't write 1 John 1:8. Paul wrote we are dead to sin, and John wrote a Christian cannot sin.
"Whatever is not of faith is sin". Transgression was not imputed to people prior to the Law but that does not mean that they did not sin. If they are descended from Adam, they inherit the sin nature. For sure there are people who are amazingly close to God. But even the elite (Elijah having a meltdown, David's adultery and murder) can sin and fail. John the Baptist had a problem with doubt. He questioned if Jesus was really the Messiah. There is none who is righteous inherently. Except the Lord Jesus.
What about John the Baptist. He received the Holy Spirit while in Elizabeth's womb.
And what about Enoch who walked with God, and He took him.
Were John the Baptist and Enoch considered sinners by God, and did they ever sin while on earth?
That is a bit of side-tracking here, as we were discussing those who did not die.Those killed in the flood were before the law too, yet God killed them all because of their wickedness.
Do you also realize that many Christians use Romans 3:23; Romans 7:14-23; and 1 John 8:1 to justify a Christian sinning?
The truth is there is a before and after Christ.
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
I don't agree that it is a "different" manifestation of the Spirit.You use Pentecostal jargon; I use Scripture.
There ARE two experiences with the Spirit. Acts 2, and Acts 4. First is for individual power over sin, and the armor of God. These have been born again of God. The second is for boldness and additional gifts for ministry.
Makes me think of Jesus' command at the end of the sermon on the mount..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."The dispute here arises because people's concept of "sin" is nothing but a finite list of "thou shalt nots." Some people's lists are merely longer than others.
But to be sinless is actually to see what the Father does and to do exactly what you see the Father doing, nothing more, nothing less. That is what made Jesus "sinless."
Or from re-birth to passing.To be sinless is not to have avoided a list of "thou shalt nots." To be sinless is to have perfectly executed the mind of God from birth to death.
When the term "sin" is mentioned in the bible, it is almost always a noun instead of a verb. So in that Hebrews passage, he is saying that Jesus did not have a sinful nature, so he cannot sin (noun), not that he did not sin (verb).
As for Enoch and John the Baptist, they had the sinful nature, meaning they will always sin (as a verb)
Apparently you have never told anyone that we CAN live without sin.I've never heard anyone use those verses to justify a Christian sinning, but only to point out that Christians do sin...without justification.
Makes me think of Jesus' command at the end of the sermon on the mount..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Or from re-birth to passing.
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