Was Adam the FIRST Food Producer??? GENERATIONS ???

joshua 1 9 · Dec 14, 2017

Zackuth said:
Adam was the first human food producer; God was the first to produce food.

There is a difference between natural selection and artificial selection or selective breeding. They still use the term animal husbandry. The Bible in Genesis 3 calls Adam a Husband and his wife a women, not just male and female.

Science looks at the prairie voles oxytocin, because they mate for life. It is rare though for animals to mate for life. It could be that Adam and Eve were the first married couple or the first husband and wife.

Although it is not unusual to find ancient remains of ancient couples that appear to be embracing.

DogmaHunter · Dec 15, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
In the evolution of man there are lots of things to consider and lots of things to talk about. But there was one really big transition that took place. Man went from a food gather to a food producer. This involves seeds, plants & grains. This also involves cattle and farm or domesticated animals. (NOTE: I try to use the words that people need to do a google search)

In the Bible we have Adam and Eve (NOT Adam and Steve). Lets look at what the Bible says:

"4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground." Genesis Chapter Two (2)

We are told "these are the generations". "These" is a pronoun plural masculine and feminine. Now lets try to figure out what the word "GENERATIONS" means. Perhaps each individual reading this post would like to tell us what the word "generations" means. For example one dictionary says: "All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor" If we look at the Bible we read in Genesis 5:1 "the book of the generations of Adam". Science likes to talk about a common ancestor. Here in the Bible we are talking about a common ancestor and his name is Adam.

So lets look at this word generations and see if we can understand what the word means. We get the word "gene" from the word generations. Maybe we could write a book or a hundred books or even hundreds of thousands of books in a library and we would still be trying to figure out what this Hebrew word for "generations" means.

Gen 5:1 "the generations of Adam"
Gen 6:9 "These [are] the generations of Noah:"
Gen 11:10 "These [are] the generations of Shem:"
Gen 25:12 "Now these [are] the generations of Ishmael,"

Ishmael was the son of Abraham and his wife's maid the Egyptian: Hagar. It was actually Abraham's wife: Sarah that same up with the idea of Abraham having a son with her maid. The story is there in the Bible. But later on Sarah got upset with her maid Hagar and the son Ishmael. Hagar of course was distressed. I suppose she thought she would be treated better then the way she was getting treated. You can read the story in Wiki if you do not want to read about Ishmael in the Bible. Hagar - Wikipedia

Gen 17:20 "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation."

So if you read the book of Genesis you will read a lot about the Generations of Abraham. I get into this because that is the first word we read in the story is "generations" (other than "these are").

Now let me use a word not in the Bible. A word we read about in Science: Synergism. Synergism comes from the Greek word "synergos" meaning working together. "
synergism

the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects."

What is the synergism here? Adam and farming or Adam and Eve. Because Adam and Eve produced generations and that means a LOT of hungry mouths to feed. We see that Adam was a food producer and that means Adam was able to feed those children. Food production is BOTH animal husbandry and agriculture or tilling the ground.

Did all of this begin with Adam and Eve in the Bible? Is that a wild claim to make? Yet Science talks about common ancestor. We are still only dealing with ONE WORD in our Bible: Generations. What benefits can we reap from the study of this one word???

1. adam and eve are mythical humans that never existed. Human population never consisted of just 2 individuals.

2. farming developed multiple times around the world in various human populations and did not radiate out of the middle east, like you like to claim.

3. when science talks about common ancestry in context of evolution, it talks about ancestral species, not individuals.

4. prime example of how you misrepresent science to forcefit it into your a priori faith based beliefs while also ignoring the bits that you can't forcefit into it. You are not following the evidence. Instead, you are trying to lead the evidence to the place where you want it to go.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
1. adam and eve are mythical humans that never existed.

Talk is cheap, you need to produce some evidence.

Human population never consisted of just 2 individuals.

Swing and a miss. Nice try though. What makes Adam and Eve unique is that they both lived at the same time. Usually the matriarch and patriarch do not live at the same time. The fact that the common ancestor for the Hebrew people lived at the same point in time is a very unique situation and further proof for the Bible. Also the common ancestor for this group of people lived MUCH more recent in time then all of the other groups or genetic haplotype or genotypes. While Adam and Eve lived around 6,000 years ago the other groups common anestors live 30,000 or more years ago.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
2. farming developed multiple times around the world in various human populations and did not radiate out of the middle east, like you like to claim.

We can go into this in as much detail as you want. If you want to deal in truth instead of misinformation. Because a very simple google search would prove you and your information wrong with no bases in any kind of research or study.

The earliest farmers lived in the Fertile Crescent, a region in the Middle East including modern-day Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Palestine, southeastern Turkey and western Iran.Jul 15, 2016
Farming invented twice in Middle East, genomes study reveals

DogmaHunter said:
4. prime example of how you misrepresent science to forcefit it into your a priori faith based beliefs while also ignoring the bits that you can't forcefit into it. You are not following the evidence. Instead, you are trying to lead the evidence to the place where you want it to go.

Bingo you just told on yourself. By accusing me you told us exactly what you are doing and you passed judgement on yourself. Job well done of showing us how you lack any substance or evidence to substantiate your claims.

Really you make it to easy to refute your points when what you say is simply not supported by any evidenced produced through a simple google search. If you want to make claims you have to produce evidence to back up those claims.

For someone called "dogmahunter" it looks like you produce a lot more dogma then you actually hunt. But that is usually the case that people are guilty of what they accuse others of. They just can not face it in themselves.

DogmaHunter · Dec 15, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
Talk is cheap, you need to produce some evidence.

1. you claim that adam and eve existed. Where is your evidence for that?

2. genetics demonstrate that human population was never below a couple thousand (and that was some 70.000 years ago - it's called a genetic bottleneck)

3. everything we know about biology tells us that the MVP (minimum viable population size) for terrestial vertebrates is around 500-1000 individuals - and those estimates don't even take into account the potential negative effects of inbreeding. So it's quite safe to say that a SINGLE breeding pair is utterly doomed to extinction and as unviable as it gets. Unless "magic", off course.

Swing and a miss. Nice try though. What makes Adam and Eve unique is that they both lived at the same time

Any time you wish to support it with evidence, instead of just repeating that claim.....

Usually the matriarch and patriarch do not live at the same time. The fact that the common ancestor for the Hebrew people lived at the same point in time is a very unique situation and further proof for the Bible. Also the common ancestor for this group of people lived MUCH more recent in time then all of the other groups or genetic haplotype or genotypes. While Adam and Eve lived around 6,000 years ago the other groups common anestors live 30,000 or more years ago.

Wait, so you in your opinion Adam and Eve weren't the first humans, like your bible so clearly states?

Also: your evidence for this "common ancestor" (as in: SINGLE breeding couple) for all hebrews?

DogmaHunter · Dec 15, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
We can go into this in as much detail as you want. If you want to deal in truth instead of misinformation. Because a very simple google search would prove you and your information wrong with no bases in any kind of research or study.

The earliest farmers lived in the Fertile Crescent, a region in the Middle East including modern-day Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Palestine, southeastern Turkey and western Iran.Jul 15, 2016
Farming invented twice in Middle East, genomes study reveals

History of agriculture - New World Encyclopedia

Quote from the article, emphasis mine:

By 7000 B.C.E., sowing and harvesting reached Mesopotamia and there, in the super fertile soil just north of the Persian Gulf, Sumerian ingenuity systematized it and scaled it up. By 6000 B.C.E. farming was entrenched on the banks of the Nile River. About this time, agriculture was developed independently in the Far East, probably in China, with rice rather than wheat as the primary crop. Maize was first domesticated, probably from teosinte, in the Americas around 3000-2700 B.C.E., though there is some archaeological evidence of a much older development. The potato, the tomato, the pepper, squash, several varieties of bean, and several other plants were also developed in the New World, as was quite extensive terracing of steep hillsides in much of Andean South America. Agriculture was also independently developed on the island of New Guinea

So, I'll repeat: agriculture was developed all over the world multiple times independently. It did NOT develop just once in the middle-east and spread to the rest of the world from there.

Bingo you just told on yourself. By accusing me you told us exactly what you are doing and you passed judgement on yourself.

Nope.

Really you make it to easy to refute your points when what you say is simply not supported by any evidenced produced through a simple google search.

Google will serve you with other results then other people, based on the websites you frequent etc. It is very well possible that it will just serve you primarily with creationist propaganda.

If you want to make claims you have to produce evidence to back up those claims.

Says the guy who makes one bare claim after another.

For someone called "dogmahunter" it looks like you produce a lot more dogma then you actually hunt. But that is usually the case that people are guilty of what they accuse others of. They just can not face it in themselves.

Uhu, uhu.

And all that, based on your ignorance that farming developed multiple times independently, all over the world.

bhsmte · Dec 15, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
1. adam and eve are mythical humans that never existed. Human population never consisted of just 2 individuals.

2. farming developed multiple times around the world in various human populations and did not radiate out of the middle east, like you like to claim.

3. when science talks about common ancestry in context of evolution, it talks about ancestral species, not individuals.

4. prime example of how you misrepresent science to forcefit it into your a priori faith based beliefs while also ignoring the bits that you can't forcefit into it. You are not following the evidence. Instead, you are trying to lead the evidence to the place where you want it to go.

This is what well evidenced reality tells us.

Of course for some, well evidenced reality is far too painful to acknowledge.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
So, I'll repeat: agriculture was developed all over the world multiple times independently. It did NOT develop just once in the middle-east and spread to the rest of the world from there.

What is your point? Dispensationalism shows us that a day in Genesis is 1,000 years. I use the nano diamond comet as a marker for the beginning of the current era that we live in. This means the beginning was around 12,980 years ago. Genesis is 7 days and then in chapter two we find Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden on the eighth day. This is around 6,000 years ago. Bishop Ussher says Adam was born in October 4004 BC. Now lets look at what the Bible says in Genesis 2:4b: "there was not a man to till the ground."

NOW present your evidence that anyone, anywhere in the world tilled or plowed the ground before Adam in the Year 4004BC in the Middle East in the Garden of Eden.

You can continue to build strawman and burn down your own strawman, or we can read the Bible and see where you have any evidence at all to demonstrate that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true.

Again show me what you have to demonstrate that Adam was not the first man to plow the ground.

"Nanodiamond" Find Supports Comet Extinction Theory

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
1. adam and eve are mythical humans that never existed.

If you want to deal with the Bible as literature that is fine. Go to your university and sign up for a Bible as literature class and we can talk about it. Or here is a class at Yale University on the Bible as literature. You can learn a lot and clear up a lot of your misconceptions if you would just put a little bit of effort into doing a study on the Bible as literature.

If you want to claim that the Patriarch in the Bible are mythological then you have to reject science to make that claim. Also no where does science or any university consider the Bible to be a "myth". This just demonstrates that you have never taken a literature class and you do not know what literature is.

My son took literature in High School and he took a literature class his first year at the University. Even a part of his literature class is to study the Bible as literature. Perhaps you need to take a literature class so you can understand how Science deals with the Bible as literature.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

bhsmte said:
Of course for some, well evidenced reality is far too painful to acknowledge.

I am sorry you feel that way because I feel that is a lot of value to a quality education. Why do you feel that it is to painful for you to acquire knowledge?

bhsmte · Dec 15, 2017

Like i said...........

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2017

mmksparbud said:
Of course----The bible does not say that Cain and Able were the first children Adam and Eve had--they only mentioned males. Females, unless they were of some great importance, were rarely mentioned and never in the genealogy (except Ruth). The line of descent was from the first born male. The only reason Able was mentioned was because he was next in line and Seth then became the next successor as Cain lost his inheritance as the firstborn after being expelled for killing Able. Adam and Eve would have had several females before Cain. They married their sisters back then as there were no genetic defects to pass along, the prohibition against close family members marrying came much later after the flood. Abraham was married to his 1/2 sister, Sarah.
The bible states Cain knew his wife---not when he first married her. There is no mention of Able having had a wife or not, nor of any children nor how old they were when Cain killed Able. Both Cain and Able could have had many, ,many children and grandchildren, and great grand children. Today, one woman can have over 20 children and I knew one woman who had 22. That is only during about a 40 year childbearing lifespan. These people lived for hundreds of years. You're talking one woman giving birth to several hundred children, basically a whole town and their children giving birth---Even today, women have had children even less than one year apart (my husband has a brother 9 mths younger) They were in perfect health, at a child a year--not counting twins or more, by the time Adam and Eve died they would have been scalp high in descendants. There were lots of other people by the time Cain was expelled for killing Able.

Nor does scripture claim that Adam And Eve were the first people. So your point is important. Cain and Able my not have been first. The same goes for their parents.

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2017

mmksparbud said:
You are free to believe in whatever you want. The bible clearly states that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman---period. God had crested angels before man, and probably other creations, but they were the first humans, created in His image. No other humans came before them----that is what the name Adam means---human.

26 and~he~will~SAY(Verb) {וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} we~will~DO(Verb) {נַעֲשֶׂה / na'a'seh} HUMAN {אָדָם / a'dam} in~IMAGE ~us {בְּצַלְמֵנוּ / bê'tsal'mey'nu} like~LIKENESS ~us {כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ / kid'mu'tey'nu} and~he~did~RULE(Verb) {וְיִרְדּוּ / wê'yir'du} in~FISH {בִדְגַת / vid'gat} the~SEA {הַיָּם / hai'yam} and~in~FLYER {וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph} the~SKY ~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~in~the~BEAST {וּבַבְּהֵמָה / u'va'be'hey'mah} and~in~ALL {וּבְכָל / uv'khol} the~LAND {הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets} and~in~ALL {וּבְכָל / uv'khol} the~TREADER {הָרֶמֶשׂ / ha're'mes} the~TREAD(Verb)~ing(ms) {הָרֹמֵשׂ / ha'ro'meys} UPON {עַל / al} the~LAND {הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets}

and Elohiym said, we will make a human in our image, like our likeness, and he will rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all the treaders treading upon the land
HUMAN: Of, relating to, or characteristic of man. The first man. All of mankind as the descendants of the first man. (Derived from a root meaning "blood" and "of reddish color.") Hebrew: אדם a-dam-masc. Strong's: #0120

We were created from reddish dust.

All correct. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth. They were physical. And they were the first of all mankind to be created in the image of God and given the The Breath of Life.
And they were placed in a Paradise Garden where God walked and Serpents talked, and the tree of life and the tree of knowledge grew. There the animals all filed past Adam to be named by him. Then Adam was kicked out of the garden and angels with flaming swords guard the Garden so man cannot return.
As the story reads, there are other people already outside the garden.

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
1. adam and eve are mythical humans that never existed. Human population never consisted of just 2 individuals.

They were the first humans to be given the breath of life and to be created in God's image with a soul that could die. Animals are not held to account and so do not have a soul that dies.

bhsmte · Dec 15, 2017

SkyWriting said:
They were the first humans to be given the breath of life and to be created in God's image with a soul that could die. Animals are not held to account and so do not have a soul that dies.

And, i should believe this why exactly?

mmksparbud · Dec 15, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Nor does scripture claim that Adam And Eve were the first people. So your point is important. Cain and Able my not have been first. The same goes for their parents.

There is not one single verse that states any other human was made before them. God was creating everything on the earth, certain things on certain days in a specific order. Nothing states anything about any other humans being made before Adam and Eve, before the decision to "let us make man"

mmksparbud · Dec 15, 2017

SkyWriting said:
As the story reads, there are other people already outside the garden

The whole earth was called Eden---it was the garden of Eden, the garden was not Eden, but in it.

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Where does it state there were others outside the garden before Adam and Eve were expelled?

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

There was no man before Adam.

Speedwell · Dec 15, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
We can go into this in as much detail as you want. If you want to deal in truth instead of misinformation. Because a very simple google search would prove you and your information wrong with no bases in any kind of research or study.

The earliest farmers lived in the Fertile Crescent, a region in the Middle East including modern-day Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Palestine, southeastern Turkey and western Iran.Jul 15, 2016
Farming invented twice in Middle East, genomes study reveals

Bingo you just told on yourself. By accusing me you told us exactly what you are doing and you passed judgement on yourself. Job well done of showing us how you lack any substance or evidence to substantiate your claims.

Really you make it to easy to refute your points when what you say is simply not supported by any evidenced produced through a simple google search. If you want to make claims you have to produce evidence to back up those claims.

For someone called "dogmahunter" it looks like you produce a lot more dogma then you actually hunt. But that is usually the case that people are guilty of what they accuse others of. They just can not face it in themselves.

Yet in that paper there is no suggestion of how farming reached east Asia where there is evidence of it from at least 8000 years ago and in the New World from 10,000 years ago. Clearly, nothing you have presented rules out the independent development of sedentary agriculture at various places around the world, rather than its radiation from the ANE.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

Speedwell said:
Yet in that paper there is no suggestion of how farming reached east Asia

East asia has NOTHING to do with farming going from the Middle East to Europe. Asia is not interested in western food. If anything food from Asia spread to the west along the silk road. Asia has their own Eden. There are at least 18 Edens and the one we read about in the Bible is just one of many in the Biosphere that we call earth.

Man did not evolve in the Middle East. This was where Neanderthals came from. Man came up out of Africa and God put him into the Garden in Eden. It is easy to go east and west. It is more difficult to go north and south because of the difference in the climate.

17 most biodiverse places on earth - Matador Network

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2017

mmksparbud said:
There is not one single verse that states any other human was made before them.

The man God created in Genesis 1:28 (day6) was given the entire world to replenish. The man Adam in Genesis chapter two (day8) was given the Garden in Eden to tend and take care of.

Was Adam the FIRST Food Producer??? GENERATIONS ???

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