Was Adam the FIRST Food Producer??? GENERATIONS ???

[DogmaHunter]

How about if I ask how we got our moon?

They'll tell you it's the result of a collision in the early solar system of earth with another proto-planet and that the moon formed out of the debris that was left orbitting the earth.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I can help explain that too. I've been kicked out of 4 discussion boards for my heresies. So my take is that this forum is the last refuge for unusual beliefs. Which I do appreciate and politely as possible disagree with my brothers. Which I how I would wish to be treated if I was the odd man out....which I am.

What does it say about religion, if members of the same religion, reading the same book, can understand it in such vastly different, contradicting and mutually exclusive ways?

 

[DogmaHunter]

When scripture says that the sins of the father are passed to the children, it refers to the spiritual situation of the parents, and not to the DNA. Unfortunately, all of creation has suffered from the separation of God from Adam so even creation has inherited the sentence of death. We call this "Time" which is the degradation of all matter and the eventual death of all life.
Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

Now you are talking about "sin".
I was asking about the "soul".

ps: what a horribly immoral and unethical system, where off spring is held responsible for the wrongdoings of ancestors!

 

[joshua 1 9]

The difference in "fundamental" beliefs between YEC's and the likes of Francis Collins, almost couldn't be any bigger. They are not compatible with eachother, at all.

There maybe a problem with modern YEC but I go by Bishop Ussher and there really is no problem there because he only talks about the last 6,000 years.

Gerald Schrodinger does the same with OEC. He goes back to great Kubbalah teachers almosty 1,000 years ago so as not to be influenced by modern science.

GAP was devised to deal with recent findings in science.

 

[joshua 1 9]

What does it say about religion, if members of the same religion, reading the same book, can understand it in such vastly different, contradicting and mutually exclusive ways?

This shows us how Great God is that HE can give us a Bible that is written on MANY levels. This is the problem with people like Dawkins who is only one dimensional when we live in a multidimensional world. Super-string theory suggests that there are at least 10 dimensions so a one dimensional approach as Dawkins takes, is going to be unacceptable.

 

[joshua 1 9]

where off spring is held responsible for the wrongdoings of ancestors!

Everyone makes a choice if they want to follow Adam in sin or follow Jesus in righteousness. Jesus lived His live as an example for us to follow. He gave His life as a ransom for us so that we can be redeemed. There are people that have been Christians all their life and their testimony is that they never departed from God and always honored God. Then there are others that lived a life of rebellion to end up getting saved, healed and delivered from the bondage of sin.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ask 10 christians to describe what their bible says on a given subject and you'll get 10 different versions.

Actually in the book of revelation there are seven churches and seven Spirits in the Seven Churches. String theory suggest that we live in a multidimensional world of at last 10 different dimensions. This is why one paradigm in science deals with the synergism and how this contributes to evolutionary theory. Evolution simply can not be explained without dealing with co-evolution.

 

[joshua 1 9]

to describe gravity and you'll get 1 description.

You get two descriptions Einstein and Newton. Newtons theory will get you to the moon but it takes Einsteins understanding of gravity to get to Mars.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Unfortunately, all of creation has suffered from the separation of God from Adam so even creation has inherited the sentence of death.

Romans 5:14 "death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come." Yet clearly there was a difference between Hades and Paradise.

23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are left to suffer.…Luke 16

 

[DogmaHunter]

There maybe a problem with modern YEC but I go by Bishop Ussher and there really is no problem there because he only talks about the last 6,000 years.

YEC beliefs are literally based on the Ussher nonsense.
Perhaps not your personal interpretation of Ussher nonsense, true.

It's striking how theists seem to be able to read the exact same text and yet come to such widely incompatible conclusions. It's also worth noting that these conclusions, almost always seem to be in line with what those individuals already believed on faith.

It's almost as if they read what they want to read.

The point remains: these are all vastly different worldviews. And to say that you disagree with none of them, is senseless.

 

[DogmaHunter]

This shows us how Great God is that HE can give us a Bible that is written on MANY levels.

Even on contradicting levels!

I'ld expect an all-powerful, all-knowing entity to be able to "inspire" a text that would be understood by everyone in the same way.

Because as it stands now, you have one person reading it and saying that it says "black" while another reading it says that it is really saying "white".

This is the problem with people like Dawkins who is only one dimensional when we live in a multidimensional world.

lol!
No, we are not living in a world that is both 4.6 billion and 6000 years old at the same time.

Super-string theory suggests that there are at least 10 dimensions so a one dimensional approach as Dawkins takes, is going to be unacceptable.

Ow my.
Or how to conflate (supposed) physical dimensions with figurative dimensions while thinking that one is making an intelligent point...

 

[DogmaHunter]

Everyone makes a choice if they want to follow Adam in sin or follow Jesus in righteousness.

That's not what original sin is all about.
That concept is literally about how the responsability of wrongdoing is inherited by off spring.
Regardless of anything.

Jesus lived His live as an example for us to follow. He gave His life as a ransom for us so that we can be redeemed.

Yes, yes. It's a loophole to circumvent the rules he himself came up with, to save us from himself.

Completely senseless. And immoral as well... not only does it say that "guilt" is inherited by off spring, it also says that punishing a scapegoat can be a substitute for justice.

There are people that have been Christians all their life and their testimony is that they never departed from God and always honored God. Then there are others that lived a life of rebellion to end up getting saved, healed and delivered from the bondage of sin.

Yes yes.
I know all about the unjust, unethicall and downright immoral idea of how "belief" gains you eternal bliss while "unbelief" gains you eternal torture, no matter how you lived your life.

A friendly charity working atheist gets screwed while a "saved" serial killer gets rewarded.

It's an immoral system to its very core.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I

Actually in the book of revelation there are seven churches and seven Spirits in the Seven Churches. String theory suggest that we live in a multidimensional world of at last 10 different dimensions.

You do realise that string theory is currently actually no more then intellectual masturbation, right?

To quote Lenard Hofstadder: "Yeeeeey, you had to invent 7 additional dimension to make the math work...."

Not that string theory has anything to do with the bible, off course.

This is why one paradigm in science deals with the synergism and how this contributes to evolutionary theory. Evolution simply can not be explained without dealing with co-evolution.

Huh? And again we wonder off into complete and utter irrelevancy. None of this addressess the post you are quoting.

I can only repeat myself: ask 10 christians what their bible says on any given subject, and you'll be getting 10 different answers.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You get two descriptions Einstein and Newton.

False.
Einstein build upon Newton's work and corrected it.

Newtons theory will get you to the moon but it takes Einsteins understanding of gravity to get to Mars.

The only reason why Newton's theory will also get you to the moon is because it works "well enough" for that.

It nevertheless is incomplete and doesn't account for a gravity that works at the speed of light, neither does it account for relativity.

Einstein corrected that.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yeps.



Every book says its own unique things, which is why they are different religions.

And if you would read my post with a bit more attention, you would have noticed the following bolded word: "I did read his supposed word and I didn't see any difference (in terms of believability)..."

Yes---every religion is different---doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Ours is unique in that we have a God that came down to us to lift us back up to His level. We have a God that died for us. Our God has an empty tomb. Every other religion you can visit their tomb. Greeks and Romans and others had statues, we have a living God who is within each of us and wants no statues, esp. not of Himself for they diminish who He is as we can not conceive of what He really is. The Hebrew language is very complex and interesting. One word can mean man different things, depending on it's context. So there are differing opinions on a subject---so what?? Atheists have not wiped out war, poverty, hate or anything else wrong in this world. Every aspect of science came from believers in God and His word. That is what science has been build on---the thoughts of believers about the world. It has been a gradual learning experience.
Why do you insist that we all have to think alike in order for our God and His word to be real?? All Buddhists seem to think the same, all Hindu, all atheists, all Communists, all members of Isis---what has that wrought? Our God doesn't want robots. He is interested in what we think. How we view things. He is wanting us to use the brains He gave us, not be content with what we are told, but to learn for ourselves. To experience Him and the world He gave us. That is a world that He wanted to be filled with those who reflect His character--love, justice, truth. That we are tainted by sin is the problem and one that will one day no longer exist. It is not He that makes sin, We accepted a false God when we doubted His word and Adam and Eve failed to obey. The consequences were horrific. And yes--He could have wiped them out, He could have wiped out Lucifer to begin with and no problem with sin again. There are countless beings that He created and Lucifer dwelt on himself to the point that he wanted to be God and if He had simply destroyed them, the rest of the universe would have served Him----out of fear of oblivion.
It is not fear that God wants. It is love and truth to be seen. He has let it play out---not just for us, but for the sake of all the universe He created that they may see where sin leads. They all saw it at the cross. Yes---Christians are imperfect souls---we make mistakes, wrong decisions, just like anybody else. We do not always act out of love, truth and justice. That does not in any way mean that the truth is not there. We may not have always conveyed it as we should---but many, many times, most of the time, we do. It is a lifetime process---looking into yourself and rooting out what God reveals. So---who cares if one thinks one way about a subject and someone else sees something different? You think God is offended by our uniqueness?---Nope--He leans in and hears what each one of us has to say as we explore who He is and who we are.
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[joshua 1 9]

False.
Einstein build upon Newton's work and corrected it.

One is a push and the other is a pull. According to your logic that would make you one of the most dogmatic Christians out there. A sheep in wolf's clothing. I suppose anything is possible according to you logic and reasoning

 

[joshua 1 9]

Huh?

Well spoken, I could not have said it better myself.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Even on contradicting levels!

If you do not understand the paradoxes in life then you have not figured out anything yet.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes---every religion is different---doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Ours is unique in that we have a God that came down to us to lift us back up to His level. We have a God that died for us. Our God has an empty tomb.

Thor has a hammer.

So there are differing opinions on a subject---so what??

The problem is that all these opinions are presented as "the one and only truth" and in many cases, it even comes with the qualifier of "...and if you don't believe me, you'll burn in hell".

Atheists have not wiped out war, poverty, hate or anything else wrong in this world.

Did anyone claim it did?

Every aspect of science came from believers in God and His word.

No. Scientists surely can have religious beliefs. But that is not the same thing.
The beliefs of scientists are irrelevant to their scientific work.

That is what science has been build on---the thoughts of believers about the world.

Science is build on the evidence of reality - regardless of religious beliefs.

Why do you insist that we all have to think alike in order for our God and His word to be real??

I'ld expect that people from the same religion who read the same book, would hold the same beliefs.

I can ask 100 biologists about the mechanisms of evolution and I'll get the same answer from each of them.

I can ask 100 physicists about the properties of atoms and I'll get the same answer from each of them.

But if I ask 100 christians about the flood or genesis, I get 100 different answers.

We accepted a false God when we doubted His word and Adam and Eve failed to obey.

Adam and Eve weren't real people.
It is demonstrably false that human population at one point consisted of a single breeding pair. It is simply false.

Yes---Christians are imperfect souls---we make mistakes, wrong decisions, just like anybody else. We do not always act out of love, truth and justice. That does not in any way mean that the truth is not there.

And how do you propose to discover the truth?

So---who cares if one thinks one way about a subject and someone else sees something different?

I do.

You think God is offended by our uniqueness?

I'm an atheist. I don't believe a god exists. So why would I think an imaginary deity is offended?

 

[DogmaHunter]

One is a push and the other is a pull. According to your logic that would make you one of the most dogmatic Christians out there. A sheep in wolf's clothing. I suppose anything is possible according to you logic and reasoning

You're make no sense at all again.