War

[dogs4thewin]

Ok, i'll give you that. You serve but dont wish to kill unless necessary. However, just because you serve doesnt mean you must also promote or support war. I believe Christians should stay out of wars and let God do the fighting.

I do not know a SINGLE person that PROMOTES war. Anyone who PROMOTES either has NO clue about war or are just plain evil.

 

[W2L]

Sometimes you will be dragged into it. Civilians WILL die in combat they always have and until Christ comes back they always will. That is one of harsh realities of this fallen world. Civilians WILL die in combat.

We'll just keep going in circles it seems. I really dont wish to debate this further. Have a good day.

 

[SteveIndy]

Sometimes God uses a certain level of violence for our protection. Let me asks you and this is an honest question if you were out somewhere and say there was an active shooter situation would you be mad if either the police or someone with a CCW ( thus carrying legally) shot the person and thus stopped the threat of harm to you and everyone else?

This question illustrates how the Church has lost touch with the meaning and spirit of the Gospel. God as instituted Government to prevent an immediate slide into chaos by giving unsaved men authority to rule over other unsaved men. True born again Christians are subject to a different constitution and have a different King ruling them, hence the verse, "We cannot serve two masters." Christians are to be subject to the dictates of the governing state only as far as the state does not require anything that conflicts with the constitution of their own Country, i.e. The Kingdom of God. Their laws do not govern us, God does. The governments of this world have certain men who are to enforce the laws of their country and others who through patriotism or whatever feel lead to help out with that enforcement. But, all of these men are subject to the kingdom of this world and it is to that kingdom that they swear their allegiance and not to God's Kingdom since there is no such thing as dual-citizenship with God, you are either in or you are out, it is our choice. The person who has been killed has forfeited his Heavenly option by his misconduct. I would not be "mad" but I would be saddened that this person has made a terrible choice.

 

[SteveIndy]

I do not know a SINGLE person that PROMOTES war. Anyone who PROMOTES either has NO clue about war or are just plain evil.

If you have cast a vote for any president then you by proxy promote whatever cause he promotes, including war; your hands will not be clean. You have attached your name to the system, for good or bad, and God has taken note.

 

[dogs4thewin]

If you have cast a vote for any president then you by proxy promote whatever cause he promotes, including war; your hands will not be clean. You have attached your name to the system, for good or bad, and God has taken note.

It seems we will just have` to agree `to disagree on this topic.

 

[dogs4thewin]

We'll just keep going in circles it seems. I really dont wish to debate this further. Have a good day.

fair enough

 

[dogs4thewin]

This question illustrates how the Church has lost touch with the meaning and spirit of the Gospel. God as instituted Government to prevent an immediate slide into chaos by giving unsaved men authority to rule over other unsaved men. True born again Christians are subject to a different constitution and have a different King ruling them, hence the verse, "We cannot serve two masters." Christians are to be subject to the dictates of the governing state only as far as the state does not require anything that conflicts with the constitution of their own Country, i.e. The Kingdom of God. Their laws do not govern us, God does. The governments of this world have certain men who are to enforce the laws of their country and others who through patriotism or whatever feel lead to help out with that enforcement. But, all of these men are subject to the kingdom of this world and it is to that kingdom that they swear their allegiance and not to God's Kingdom since there is no such thing as dual-citizenship with God, you are either in or you are out, it is our choice. The person who has been killed has forfeited his Heavenly option by his misconduct. I would not be "mad" but I would be saddened that this person has made a terrible choice.

Keep in mind that we are governed by the government; because God has said that we are to obey the Earthly laws unless they oppose God and so in that sense we ARE governed by the government. Now, whether someone believes that the military fits in that catgory may be debatable, but in general we ARE in fact under the law of the land.

 

[W2L]

Keep in mind that we are governed by the government; because God has said that we are to obey the Earthly laws unless they oppose God and so in that sense we ARE governed by the government. Now, whether someone believes that the military fits in that catgory may be debatable, but in general we ARE in fact under the law of the land.

The Lord, his disciples, and Paul, were governed by Rome which was a pagan government. They followed the law of the land as long as it didnt conflict with Gods law, but they never joined the army of Rome.

 

[hokeith]

Should we pray? Sure. But that's not the point of this thread is it? No one is saying not to pray.

I was just reading Mere Christianity, CS Lewis says a few things related to the subject. "All killing is not murder any more than all sexual intercourse is adultery. When the soldiers came to St John the Baptist asking what to do, he never remotely suggested that they ought to leave the army; nor did Christ when He met a Roman sergeant-major - what they called a centurion." In Lewis' opinion, "It is ... perfectly right for a Christian judge to sentence a man to death or a Christian soldier to kill an enemy."

Did John the Baptist or Jesus say anything about "dropping bombs?" No. But that's a straw man argument anyway. They said nothing about the internet, automobiles, or trips to the moon either.

Yes, pray - regardless of your opinion about war. While you're at it, pray for the well-being of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines - especially those that are saved. And thank God for their service to protect your freedoms.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The Lord, his disciples, and Paul, were governed by Rome which was a pagan government. They followed the law of the land as long as it didnt conflict with Gods law, but they never joined the army of Rome.

That is why I said that whether the military is included in opposing God's law may be debatable, but the poster said that we were governed by God and not the laws of the land; that is why I said we were governed by the laws of the land when they do not oppose God's law.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Should we pray? Sure. But that's not the point of this thread is it? No one is saying not to pray.

I was just reading Mere Christianity, CS Lewis says a few things related to the subject. "All killing is not murder any more than all sexual intercourse is adultery. When the soldiers came to St John the Baptist asking what to do, he never remotely suggested that they ought to leave the army; nor did Christ when He met a Roman sergeant-major - what they called a centurion." In Lewis' opinion, "It is ... perfectly right for a Christian judge to sentence a man to death or a Christian soldier to kill an enemy."

Did John the Baptist or Jesus say anything about "dropping bombs?" No. But that's a straw man argument anyway. They said nothing about the internet, automobiles, or trips to the moon either.

Yes, pray - regardless of your opinion about war. While you're at it, pray for the well-being of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines - especially those that are saved. And thank God for their service to protect your freedoms.

thank you doing both can, in fact be done.

 

[W2L]

Should we pray? Sure. But that's not the point of this thread is it? No one is saying not to pray.

I was just reading Mere Christianity, CS Lewis says a few things related to the subject. "All killing is not murder any more than all sexual intercourse is adultery. When the soldiers came to St John the Baptist asking what to do, he never remotely suggested that they ought to leave the army; nor did Christ when He met a Roman sergeant-major - what they called a centurion." In Lewis' opinion, "It is ... perfectly right for a Christian judge to sentence a man to death or a Christian soldier to kill an enemy."

Did John the Baptist or Jesus say anything about "dropping bombs?" No. But that's a straw man argument anyway. They said nothing about the internet, automobiles, or trips to the moon either.

Yes, pray - regardless of your opinion about war. While you're at it, pray for the well-being of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines - especially those that are saved. And thank God for their service to protect your freedoms.

Actually its not a strawman. I gave you all the benefit of doubt, that you would understand that i was referring to killing our enemies, not dropping bombs. We use bullets too, but i mentioned bearing the sword. Is that a strawman because we no longer use swords? Lets get real my friend. You know what im talking about.

 

[W2L]

That is why I said that whether the military is included in opposing God's law may be debatable, but the poster said that we were governed by God and not the laws of the land; that is why I said we were governed by the laws of the land when they do not oppose God's law.

My head is spinning.

 

[SeventyOne]

A lot of Christians commit idolatry.
Which is worse ? Murder or idolatry?
And
who decides if one is okay or not ?

Jesus says "Go and sin no more, so things don't get worse for you",
not "Okay, go and sin a little, it's okay"....
and
HE is the JUDGE. Not men who say it is okay to sin.

Who said anything about murder?

 

[SteveIndy]

Tell that to the God of the OT.

The OT has been repealed by the New Testament, Heb. 8:7,8; 9:16,17. The Old last will and Testament was not validated because the testator was still alive. When Christ came He made some very important changes as we see in Matthew 5 where He states several times "You have heard it said . . . but I say". with these words He rewrote His "will" and then He validated it by His death. As we know, once the testator has died the "will" cannot be changed. This is a very important teaching that nearly all Christians miss. So, the God of the OT is the God of the NT and He has rewritten the document. Be careful trying to enforce a document that has no authority behind it, it will not hold up on judgment day.

 

[W2L]

Who said anything about murder?

Who said we should go to war with anyone? Our weapons are not carnal, neither is our warfare.

 

[dogs4thewin]

My head is spinning.

What did I do or say?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Who said we should go to war with anyone? Our weapons are not carnal, neither is our warfare.

I am confused you admit that war will happen, yet say we should not go to war.

 

[W2L]

What did I do or say?

Never mind.

 

[W2L]

I am confused you admit that war will happen, yet say we should not go to war.

Yes, exactly. i believe it takes faith to see what im talking about, faith that comes by reading the Word. We let God fight the wars. We dont fight them, God does. Its about holiness. We are holy, which means we are separate from the world. God will use the armies of the world as he sees fit, but thats not the way he taught us. He taught us that our weapons are not carnal, and neither is our warfare,. That means we dont fight in wars. Our warfare is spiritual which includes perseverance, patience, prayer, love, and faith.

Now you guys will just ignore what Paul teaches us, and we will take another ride on this merry go round.