War

[W2L]

My conclusions and doctrine are sound I believe. Because if we had a president, government or king with the doctrine you're describing then we might all be overran and given to killers of Christians, rapists regimes, and even enslavement, and ultimately extinguishing Christianity for everyone. Not to mention all the hardship and suffering everyone might endure with such a doctrine at a position of leadership.

You completely misunderstand me. '

I already said im not promoting lawless anarchy. I believe God will protect us, and if for some reason we should die, then thats ok because our faith is strong in the Lord. Right? Why mourn over death, as if it has power. Christ has robbed death and the grave. I know i sound extreme, but if we read the NT, well see plenty of extreme stuff. Right? I often ask myself if i would be a coward if faced with death. I guess life has worn me down, and i dont love this world as much any more. I tell myself that real faith has no fear. He who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 Corinthians 15:55

 

[SteveIndy]

It truly breaks my heart to know there are people who feel this way.

Add...please, please try to keep this opinion to yourself around soldiers, Marines, sailors and police officers. Many feel they make the sacrifice to serve others and many I know consider themselves Christians. It would hurt them.

Are you saying that the truth should not be spoken because it may offend and hurt some feelings? Matthew 5:39 sums up all of Christ's teaching on the matter, "Resist not an evil person." does that offend? You bet it does because the word of God is sharp and cuts to the bone and penetrates the heart. When Jesus disarmed Peter he disarmed every Christian. The ways of the flesh are not the ways of the Spirit.

 

[W2L]

[QUOTE="Deadworm, post: 71129634, not. Towards the end of His public ministry, Jesus commands His disciples to bear arms, presumably for self-defense (Luke 22:36-38).
[/QUOTE]

No sir. You are m,misreading the text. Jesus was not commanding His Disciples to use arms against anyone. The swords were meant to fulfill a prophecy, but not to actually be used.

 

[SteveIndy]

for those saying that war is sinful,

would it be sinful for a man to own a firearm for the sole purpose of defending his family from harm and only ever using it in such a situation?

What you are really asking is, is it alright to sometimes disobey the Lord? The answer is no. We are to return good for evil and to never resist an evil person; so under what circumstances may a Christian disobey these commands? The first three hundred years of Christianity lived out the answer to your question, the Apostles all died obeying these commands, and Christ was the ultimate answer to all such questions.

 

[381465]

Are you saying that the truth should not be spoken because it may offend and hurt some feelings? Matthew 5:39 sums up all of Christ's teaching on the matter, "Resist not an evil person." does that offend? You bet it does because the word of God is sharp and cuts to the bone and penetrates the heart. When Jesus disarmed Peter he disarmed every Christian. The ways of the flesh are not the ways of the Spirit.

No, by all means. Try to hurt and belittle as many people as you can in the "name of Christ".

 

[Deadworm]

W2L: "No sir. You are misreading the text. Jesus was not commanding His Disciples to use arms against anyone. The swords were meant to fulfill a prophecy, but not to actually be used."

Notice that W2L carefully ducks my main point about the ineffectiveness of prayer to stop Nazi genocide, when strategic allied bombing might have saved millions of Jewish lives.

W2L, the absurdity of your interpretation is illustrated by your inability to find a single academic commentary on Luke that agrees with your interpretation. More importantly, here are just 5 points that refute your claim:

First, the prophecy fulfilled (Isaiah 53:12) makes no mention of swords; so the acquisition of swords would be pointless, unless Jesus intended His disciples to use them in a proper self-defense context.
Second, your interpretation overlooks the fact that Luke 22:36-38 provides a revised version of Jesus' previously given missionary instructions.
Third, Jesus actually insists that they disciples sell a cloak, if necessary, so that they can afford to buy swords.
Fourth, "swords" is meant to be taken literally. Jesus' says that the 2 swords readily available are "enough" for now an Peter actually misuses one of the swords to slice of Malchus's ear in Gethsemane. But Peter's action is only inappropriate because Jesus' mission is to die on the cross for our sins and Peter has already been condemned for his vow to prevent Jesus' atoning death in Mark 8:31-33).

 

[W2L]

No, by all means. Try to hurt and belittle as many people as you can in the "name of Christ".

Who did he hurt? He expressed an opinion. We are all big enough to go to war, so we are big enough to discuss war.

 

[Edo2]

We should pray. However Jesus told his disciples on the mount of olives what the end will look like and its anything but peaceful. Before he returns certain things must happen and war is one them. Jesus disciples didn't want him to be arrested and crucified but it had to happen. We may not want war but for his return it has to happen.

One of the OT prophecies talks about damascus being destroyed. So while I may not like war I realize it puts us one step closer to his return and that's where my peace in this lies.

 

[W2L]

We should pray. However Jesus told his disciples on the mount of olives what the end will look like and its anything but peaceful. Before he returns certain things must happen and war is one them. Jesus disciples didn't want him to be arrested and crucified but it had to happen. We may not want war but for his return it has to happen.

One of the OT prophecies talks about damascus being destroyed. So while I may not like war I realize it puts us one step closer to his return and that's where my peace in this lies.

To reiterate, Paul teaches us that we dont fight carnal wars, or use carnal weapons. War may be inevitable, but that doesnt mean we must support it. Its Gods work, not ours. God used the Babylonians to punish the Isralites, but then He punished the Babylonians too.

Christ said it, "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword"

 

[W2L]

Here is an interesting scripture.

Revelation 13:10-18New King James Version (NKJV)
10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[Monk Brendan]

We are taught to pray.

True, we are called to pray. But first we are called to LOVE!

 

[W2L]

True, we are called to pray. But first we are called to LOVE!

i agree.

 

[Edo2]

To reiterate, Paul teaches us that we dont fight carnal wars, or use carnal weapons. War may be inevitable, but that doesnt mean we must support it. Its Gods work, not ours. God used the Babylonians to punish the Isralites, but then He punished the Babylonians too.

Christ said it, "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword"

Not disputing that at all. My point whether we agree with war or not it has to happen for Christ to return.

We should pray for everything you have said but it doesn't change what Jesus said will happen and will have to happen before he returns.

Christ also said don't be alarmed when these happen. I will pray as he directs me and take heart in the fact that these things are a part his return one day.

 

[dogs4thewin]

To reiterate, Paul teaches us that we dont fight carnal wars, or use carnal weapons. War may be inevitable, but that doesnt mean we must support it. Its Gods work, not ours. God used the Babylonians to punish the Isralites, but then He punished the Babylonians too.

Christ said it, "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword"

Just because someone goes to war or uses deadly force in self defense does NOT mean they live by the sword.

 

[W2L]

Not disputing that at all. My point whether we agree with war or not it has to happen for Christ to return.

We should pray for everything you have said but it doesn't change what Jesus said will happen and will have to happen before he returns.

Christ also said don't be alarmed when these happen. I will pray as he directs me and take heart in the fact that these things are a part his return one day.

Sounds agreeable. I know war will happen. I just think we as Christians should stay out of it, and put it all in Gods hands.

 

[W2L]

Just because someone goes to war or uses deadly force in self defense does NOT mean they live by the sword.

How do you know that? What scripture can you post to support your assertion?

 

[dogs4thewin]

How do you know that? What scripture can you post to support your assertion?

LIVING by the sword would be to fight FIRST. Just because I choose to serve and accept that I may see combat and/or just because I choose to use lethal force when I fear for my and/or others lives does not mean that I will throw the first punch or fire the first shot. Jesus did tell his followers if you do not have a sword sell a cloak and buy one.

 

[W2L]

LIVING by the sword would be to fight FIRST. Just because I choose to serve and accept that I may see combat and/or just because I choose to use lethal force when I fear for my and/or others lives does not mean that I will throw the first punch or fire the first shot. Jesus did tell his followers if you do not have a sword sell a cloak and buy one.

Ok, i'll give you that. You serve but dont wish to kill unless necessary. However, just because you serve doesnt mean you must also promote or support war. I believe Christians should stay out of wars and let God do the fighting.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Sounds agreeable. I know war will happen. I just think we as Christians should stay out of it, and put it all in Gods hands.

Sometimes you will be dragged into it. Civilians WILL die in combat they always have and until Christ comes back they always will. That is one of harsh realities of this fallen world. Civilians WILL die in combat.

 

[381465]

Who did he hurt? He expressed an opinion. We are all big enough to go to war, so we are big enough to discuss war.

There is no need to tell a service person or cop they're not Christians. His opinion may be incorrect. Those people may consider themselves Christians and have sacrificed for society.

Perhaps he could call them the Devil. That always helps.