• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

War Doesn't Make Sense Anymore

ubicaritas

sinning boldly
Jul 22, 2017
1,842
1,071
Orlando
✟75,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/war-doesnt-make-sense-anymore/

Good article from the American Conservative. Particularly this bit:

If we need to stimulate the economy, we can do it better by investing in infrastructure, education, or providing a better safety net. We certainly don’t need a huge military so that our leaders can posture and Beltway strategists can feel macho. War doesn’t make sense anymore. It is time we recognized that. War in America today is nothing but a sorry combination of show business and fiscal stimulus. No wonder we can’t seem to win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Go Braves

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,915
17,131
Canada
✟287,108.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

ubicaritas

sinning boldly
Jul 22, 2017
1,842
1,071
Orlando
✟75,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Maybe traditional, benign Isolationism, and following George Washington's warnings against 'entangling alliances'? :)

I don't think that is exactly the answer, either. I was just agreeing that military spending has become the basis of economic stimulus in much of the US, and that's one of the reasons we choose war as a way to resolve conflict.

Though the Gulf War has alot more to do with the Petrodollar than I think this guy recognizes. It was about oil politics, but not about taking ownership of Iraqi oil.

If all the countries of OPEC stopped trading in dollars, it would have serious consequences on the US economy as the value of a dollar would drop.
 
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,915
17,131
Canada
✟287,108.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I don't think that is exactly the answer, either. I was just agreeing that military spending has become the basis of economic stimulus in much of the US, and that's one of the reasons we choose war as a way to resolve conflict.

Though the Gulf War has alot more to do with the Petrodollar than I think this guy recognizes. It was about oil politics, but not about taking ownership of Iraqi oil.

If all the countries of OPEC stopped trading in dollars, it would have serious consequences on the US economy as the value of a dollar would drop.
President Eisenhower was right about the military-industrial complex. If he had realized earlier in his Presidency, then maybe the coups in Iran and Guatemala would not have happened and the Bay of Pigs plan might have been squashed.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
To the extent that war reduces the global population it does make some sense. Overpopulation is much more damaging to mankind, the global economy, and the environment than any recent war.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
To the extent that war reduces the global population it does make some sense. Overpopulation is much more damaging to mankind, the global economy, and the environment than any recent war.
This isn't true.

Corruption in all the governments, corporations, agencies, and even many churches, have made life harder for all.....

Yahweh prepared the earth EXTRAVAGANTLY GENEROUSLY to meet the needs of everyone.....

The global alliance lie(s) of overpopulation don't carry any truth.
 
Upvote 0

ubicaritas

sinning boldly
Jul 22, 2017
1,842
1,071
Orlando
✟75,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
President Eisenhower was right about the military-industrial complex. If he had realized earlier in his Presidency, then maybe the coups in Iran and Guatemala would not have happened and the Bay of Pigs plan might have been squashed.

Politics forced his hand. At the time to question the military industrial complex was anathema and would get you branded a commie. Remember he gave that speech at the closing of his presidency, when he wasn't up for re-election.
 
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,915
17,131
Canada
✟287,108.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics forced his hand. At the time to question the military industrial complex was anathema and would get you branded a commie. Remember he gave that speech at the closing of his presidency, when he wasn't up for re-election.
He didn't have a widely thought out philosophy when he became the GOP candidate in '52. Nixon did (for good or for ill). Eisenhower became GOP candidate because of his record as a General in WW2; and he started WW2 as a Lieutenant-Colonel.
 
Upvote 0

Zoii

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
5,811
3,984
24
Australia
✟111,705.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
To the extent that war reduces the global population it does make some sense. Overpopulation is much more damaging to mankind, the global economy, and the environment than any recent war.
But I've seen you post quite strongly against abortion - Why are you supporting a population cull via war if thats your view?
 
Upvote 0

ubicaritas

sinning boldly
Jul 22, 2017
1,842
1,071
Orlando
✟75,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
45,384
6,909
✟1,025,620.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,915
17,131
Canada
✟287,108.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
@ubicaritas :

It does go back a long way.

The then OSS's Allen Dulles in Berne, Switzerland was talking to Nazi Germany's General Gehlen and Admiral Canaris of the Abwehr long before the end of WW2.

The OSS basically emerged from Donovan's Wall Street contacts and networks. The full story of Wall Street's links with German corporations has not fully been told and probably will not be.

In the end, even to understand the extent of the military-industrial complex that was gradually grasped by President Eisenhower during his Presidency, would be to overlook what Wall Street's / Donovan's interest calculations in the years prior to World War 2.

During the WW2 years, Eisenhower would have grasped far less of the financial-military-industrial complex than certain ones such as Harriman did. Even prior to 1953, it was Harriman - not Eisenhower - who was the President's roving polite thug-despatched-on-Air-Force-One (or whatever it was called then).

We shall probably never know just how much Allen Dulles and Averell Harriman knew.
 
Upvote 0

Go Braves

I miss Senator McCain
May 18, 2017
9,646
8,980
Atlanta
✟23,068.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
To the extent that war reduces the global population it does make some sense. Overpopulation is much more damaging to mankind, the global economy, and the environment than any recent war.

Well, are you pro-choice then & in support of affordable birth control being readily available then? In wars so many innocent folks, including pregnant ladies, babies, tiny little kids, are killed too.
 
Upvote 0

Quid est Veritas?

In Memoriam to CS Lewis
Feb 27, 2016
7,319
9,223
South Africa
✟324,143.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
War is merely politics by other means. It is the last resort to achieve your aims. We still see people make use of it - when they don't get what they want by standard means, they riot, for instance. This is merely done on a larger scale. So 'obsolete' is a silly way of looking at it. It depends what you want.

Britain spent many years suppressing the Slave Trade, for moral reasons, with no economic advantage for themselves. Was this wasted effort? Are there not times when war is required to safeguard beliefs, values and safety?
Wendell Wilky was defeated by FDR in the election just prior to US entry to WWII. He was more of an isolationist on economic grounds. If he was President, then WWII would have gone on longer, perhaps ending in Axis victory or a negotiated armistice. Without Lend Lease to Britain, she might not have been able to stand alone as effectively against Germany. This same economic argument would have left the world far worse off, I think. Sometimes the bad guys need to be clobbered with a stick, although you should walk softly, as Teddy Roosevelt said.

People often went to war for spoils or economic reasons in olden days, but often not. They went to war to defend their hearths, to defend their beliefs, to uphold their worldview, as well.
If economically war is 'obsolete' in the sense of spoil and pillage, perhaps, but the threat of war still needs to loom to keep players acting nice mostly. It is the Prisoner's dilemma of Game Theory in a sense, for you could run roughshod over foreigners, seizing property or companies say, and still gain economically otherwise. This hypothesis of the article is simplistic, almost Marxist, in its primacy given to macro-economic concerns of trade and so forth. I think its reasoning of the Napoleonic soldiery merely out for lucre laughable though, as that certainly was not applicable there.

How much bellicosity the US needs to project depends on whether you think the US has ideological or moral imperitives or rights to intervene in other societies. Some is needed, to keep rivals in line and Americans abroad respected, or keep trade routes open. Getting the balance right is tricky. Often a Power acts as policeman to keep free trade flowing, as Britain used to and the US does today. Looking back to isolationist days makes no sense if no one shoulders the burden of deterrence, and to pretend it isn't somewhat necessary is a facile dream. Countries don't act more level-headed than a bunch of drunks in a bar, or schoolchildren marooned on an island.

Sometimes War is required, or at least the threat thereof. As Vegetius said: Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum - if you want peace, you must be prepared for war.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
But I've seen you post quite strongly against abortion - Why are you supporting a population cull via war if thats your view?

I'm pro-life but I haven't engaged the abortion issue very much. However the population would certainly be impacted if there were no abortions. Also I don't 'support' war, I'm jes' sayin' that in the grand scheme of things anything that reduces populations will have some positive effects, even abortion.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Zoii
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Well, are you pro-choice then & in support of affordable birth control being readily available then? In wars so many innocent folks, including pregnant ladies, babies, tiny little kids, are killed too.

I'm pro-life, but with fewer overall numbers. I like abstinence, condoms, rhythm method, the pill, voluntary sterilization, but not abortion.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
This isn't true.

Corruption in all the governments, corporations, agencies, and even many churches, have made life harder for all.....

Yahweh prepared the earth EXTRAVAGANTLY GENEROUSLY to meet the needs of everyone.....

The global alliance lie(s) of overpopulation don't carry any truth.

Think of the impact on the environment if life becomes 'easier' for all. :eek:

I think we've pretty much used up God's extravagant generosity. :(
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JIMINZ
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
80
Southern Ga.
✟165,215.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
War never did make any sense.

The populous who actually went to war was duped into believing it was for their benefit, but if you look at history, the populous has never benefited from any war, and that goes all the way back to the Pharaoh's.
 
Upvote 0