ditto not salvation.The same kind of faith (pistis) I was talking about earlier - doctrine.
Amen just like judasYou can learn all the road rules, study the car manual, read up on driving techniques, watch "how-to" videos and still not be able to drive a car. I know some people who have been going to church most of their lives. They are not born again. They know the theory but they've never truly accepted Christ. Hebrews 4: 1 & 2 describes such people. They know about Christ, but they do not know Him.
Sadly, I would say probably not, if he had no intention at the time of repenting.
Whether someone is finally saved or not is ultimately dependent upon God. We can never put limits on his love and mercy.
Yes you are right in saying that repentance always precludes forgiveness and generally speaking those who commit grave sins without repentance will face judgement. However, addiction is a very complex illness and for many people recovery can take time and they may suffer relapses in the process. I personally believe that God would give grace to someone who is genuinely trying to turn their life around even if they falter and stumble in the process. It is those who sin wilfully and defiantly who have the problem.I am glad you said that. The thing is that 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. If he let someone slide in being forgiven even without confessing, then this verse would simply no longer be true anymore. Proverbs 28:13 essentially says that he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. I see this as salvation. This tells me that one has to be in a state of having their past sins confessed and forsaken in order to have mercy (salvation). So yes, God's love and mercy is very plentiful, but it is within the bounds of what His Word says.
Hello back, Brother!For me, His ordination involves 1. ~causing~ something to happen or 2. ~allowing~ something to happen.
BTW, I believe free will is best defined like this, as the ability to choose what we desire the most at a given moment in time. IOW, if we are able to choose what we want the most, then our will is free.
As for Heaven and/or our future life w/Him on the New Earth, I believe that we will be changed at that point so that we will be like Him .. in the sense that we will no longer have any desire to sin. So our wills will always be free, and we will never choose to sin again, because we will never have the desire to sin
Except you can't prove these weren't people with the same faith as yourself, and there is no indication whatsoever there that says they are any different from any saved person. What is described there can happen to anyone who chooses to do those things.
You simply choose to "say" there is a difference,, and right out of the blue.
Please tell me what makes them different?
Why would I want them to be of different faith? It would do nothing for my argument. I'm not claiming they don't start out with correct doctrine, but that they "fall away" from it. Paul gives the reason in 2 Timothy 4:3 -
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
I don't see how that matters, maybe you can explain it. My point is they're not falling away from salvation, but from correct doctrine. It goes to sanctification, not justification.
I agree --it is not particularly Calvinist. They despise the doctrines that teach the necessary fact of human dependence on Christ, without even knowing that is what they do.I don't equate osas to any particular doctrine. Any Christian religion can incorporate osas, right? in my mind anyway. I didn't know why it was brought up in the Calvinist thread.
one is a real living faith and the other as scripture says is a dead faith, HUGE difference between the two.You misunderstood, different faith as in the same faith but stronger or weaker.
Again, you and your faith is no different from those who fell away, anyone can and does fall away...It's simply a choice some make, and there is no magic thing that keeps them from dropping their salvation.
Yes you are right in saying that repentance always precludes forgiveness and generally speaking those who commit grave sins without repentance will face judgement. However, addiction is a very complex illness and for many people recovery can take time and they may suffer relapses in the process. I personally believe that God would give grace to someone who is genuinely trying to turn their life around even if they falter and stumble in the process. It is those who sin wilfully and defiantly who have the problem.
one is a real living faith and the other as scripture says is a dead faith, HUGE difference between the two.
hope this helps !!!
I would not disagree ...Wouldn't then that be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, if there is no way back? Actually Origen said something like that (I can look it up if you are interested).
Jesus's parable said they believed....period, so of course we are talking real faith. Please don't try to chance the clear meaning of scripture just to win an argument.
Indeed. I agree.
“They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13).
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).
But today, Christians are saying you do not have to endure temptation, and you can receive the crown of life anyways. I am sticking with James and Jesus, and not what popular sugar coated Christianity says.
I don't recall that verse.
The only verse of that nature (assuredness) is in 1st John stating that because love is made perfect or mature in us, we have confidence on the day of Judgment because in this world we are like Him. God is looking at our spiritual maturity.
In terms of intellectual assuredness, we are instructed to Judge with Mercy in James' epistle.
Amen brother. I could not agree more.
But none of that changes the fact that Sacred Scripture does not teach OSAS.
Have a nice day.
I don't know that it is true that practically every denomination teaches election --many seem to hold to a caricature of it. But I get your point.Sure, but practically every denomination teaches election, those who accept OSAS and those who reject it.
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