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[Edial]

Another thing.

You could ask him: "Could the goats become sheep?"

A Calvinist would answer "No".

Calvinists agree that the wicked in the OT are the goats.

Present the following where we see that although the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God, ... through Christ, these very wicked were washed, sanctified and justified.
In other words, the goats became sheep.

1CO 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Much changed after the Christ's sacrifice at the Cross.

God loves even the goats.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[DaRev]

We must also remember, though, that there are still goats and still those who will be judged as wicked and not inherit the Kingdom.

I think it's safe to say that Christ's sacrifice turned all people into sheep, but some chose to remain goats.

 

[Edial]

If I may add to the "all" debate. See the thing is, that pretty clearly all does not mean absolutely every single one in many contexts in the bible.

For instance "All have sinned..." Now clearly there is one very obviouse exception, Jesus. So all doesn't mean absolutely all.

That's a given.

But at that point Calvinist theology leaves the question and just makes a leap that since all doens't necessarily mean all, that then it means only the elect.

Here's the problem. While all might not quite mean all. It's never used to only mean a small bunch or a minority. Ant that's really how Calvinists use it. Ask your pastor what percentage of people in the world he beilieves are elect, are saved. If he thinks about it, I doubt he would come up with anything over maybe 10%, but possibly higher, say 25%. So this is a huge leap from all doesn't mean all, to all only means a few.

The only ways he could get higher is to adopt nonCalvinistic beliefs, like general revelation can save or that a good Muslim or Hindu could be saved or some such thing, or reject salvation through faith, but I doubt he will do those. But he does, because he doesn't think about it, take all which can have some exceptions and make it mean some or a few.

Some will try to finesse it and say well it's all because the saved come from all nations, again just ask him to show you multiple locations where all means a few from many places and he won't be able to.

So all doesn't mean all, but the meaning in Greek is not the equivalent to some or the minority or a handful either. All just doesn't fit the elect.

Marv

I should present however, that in the context of "all have sinned", the Scriptures do present that in contrast to Jesus Christ.
In other words, "all, except Christ".

RO 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Thanks,
Ed