Voluntary Sin

[HARK!]

This is going to be the last time I get pulled into a discussion about the "law" as viewed by Judaizers.

What's a Judaizer?

 

[pescador]

Matthew 15:11
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

And this is relevant because..?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And this is relevant because..?

Are you mining the thread for arguments?

 

[pescador]

Are you mining the thread for arguments?

No, I am on topic.

 

[visionary]

So are you agreeing with my point or disagreeing and why, that is all I wanted to know

Elaborating on the feasts is a thread by itself. I am seeing a weak position lacking on all the clue the Lord has given.

 

[visionary]

This is going to be the last time I get pulled into a discussion about the "law" as viewed by Judaizers. It is fruitless and more importantly it is a major stumbling block in the Body of Christ. I wish all who defend this position the very best and those who are confused to please do your research.
Be blessed all of you!

Most of us who moved to this position did so because we did our research prayerfully and with God's help come to see more to His Word than what has been given as milk to the masses. This is the meat and we are not Judiazers. Judiazers are without Christ and have the law and traditions to fall back on. We have Yeshua our Messiah and He is the one who has guided us deeper into His Word, His Kingdom, His Way, His Truth, and His Life. Follow His example and you will see that He created it, instituted it, explained it, lived it and expects the same from His followers.

 

[Guojing]

Elaborating on the feasts is a thread by itself. I am seeing a weak position lacking on all the clue the Lord has given.

So instead of introducing a new topic like feasts which you don't want to explain, you want to address my point about the role of Hebrews?

 

[Phil W]

We do not get to pick and choose which rules to follow, God has commanded us to follow all of them. Above all the rules is to love God with all your being, and after that, love others as you love yourself.
Jesus sacrificed himself so that even when we sin, we can be included in the Kingdom of Heaven. All you have to do is believe and repent.

If you "turn from" something, but return to it, wasn't the repentance a lie?
Fellowship with God cannot be built on lies.
Jesus sacrificed Himself so that, among other things, we don't have to commit any more sin.
Rebirth...remember?

 

[Phil W]

Most of us who moved to this position did so because we did our research prayerfully and with God's help come to see more to His Word than what has been given as milk to the masses. This is the meat and we are not Judiazers. Judiazers are without Christ and have the law and traditions to fall back on. We have Yeshua our Messiah and He is the one who has guided us deeper into His Word, His Kingdom, His Way, His Truth, and His Life. Follow His example and you will see that He created it, instituted it, explained it, lived it and expects the same from His followers.

Is circumcision necessary for salvation?

 

[HARK!]

Is circumcision necessary for salvation?

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Phil W]

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Why can't you just say "YES"?
How many of Paul's verses demonstrated that not to be true?

The "circumcision" done to Christians is done without hands, and is of the heart, not the foreskin only. (Col 2:11-13)

 

[HARK!]

Why can't you just say "YES"?
How many of Paul's verses demonstrated that not to be true?

The "circumcision" done to Christians is done without hands, and is of the heart, not the foreskin only. (Col 2:11-13)

(CLV) Ac 16:3
This one Paul wants to come out with him, and, taking him, circumcised him because of the Jews who are in those places, for they all were aware that his father belonged to the Greeks.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, I am on topic.

I was addressing a comment concerning involuntary sin...a legitimate tangent.

 

[Phil W]

(CLV) Ac 16:3
This one Paul wants to come out with him, and, taking him, circumcised him because of the Jews who are in those places, for they all were aware that his father belonged to the Greeks.

That was because Paul wanted to take Timothy into the synagogues, where the locals would know Timothy wasn't "clean" enough for them without circumcision.
You don't go to a Biden rally wearing a MAGA hat.

 

[HARK!]

That was because Paul wanted to take Timothy into the synagogues, where the locals would know Timothy wasn't "clean" enough for them without circumcision.

So you're calling Paul a hypocrite? You're also telling me that he committed the same behavior the the Council of Jerusalem was called for? I won't go along with either assertion.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Phil W]

So you're calling Paul a hypocrite?

Not at all.

You're also telling me that he committed the same behavior the the Council of Jerusalem was called for? I won't go along with either assertion.

Me neither.
Extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures.

Why do you call for the "behavior" the Jerusalem council was called for?
Certainly your not a hypocrite.

 

[AllDayFaith]

I understand that keeping the OT laws is impossible, therefore trying to keep them in order to be saved is dead. Jesus sacrificed Himself so that even when we break the laws, we can still be saved.

 

[Mr. M]

How is it reconciled?



(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

Matthew 7:1 & 2. Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
You don't have to go far from the OP to find a second witness...also in Hebrews.
Hebrews 2:1-3. Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.
I know this is 5 days late, but I didn't want to read 11 pages of postings to see if this was covered.

 

[Lost4words]

Some people are stuck in the old Covenant, much like the Jews.

Jesus came and brought in a new Covenant.

I put all my trust in Jesus. I believe in Him.

 

[Phil W]

I understand that keeping the OT laws is impossible, therefore trying to keep them in order to be saved is dead. Jesus sacrificed Himself so that even when we break the laws, we can still be saved.

Thankfully, the men reborn of God's seed have the essence of the Law written in their hearts.
Along with the new nature that replaced that of Adam, we can keep the two laws of Christ...Love God above all else, and love our neighbors as we love ourselves.