Radrook

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I mean Jews don't consider the contract getting married-the wedding is.

Really? My cousin had a three thousand dollar wedding celebration and those were 1960's dollars. They were poor but wanted to make it a very memorable occasion. It didn't make a difference. They were soon at each other's throats and finally divorced.
 
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really. alright.

first women wear white. if only it were less than %95 of the time true. today speaking.

maybe then as well.

also I'm sure "knowing" only one person makes for a much more "fulfilling" marriage. because you made the effort to truly be bonded at a soul and spiritual level under the grace of god before tying the knot.

I saw on that 70's show to not marry your high school sweet heart and so on because it will be a terrible marriage. But really it was attempting to promote adultery.

sweet I know.
 
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Radrook

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really. alright.

first women wear white.

Insisting that only virgins are entitled to wear white at the wedding ceremony can cause the bride distress. In fact, it caused one bride to be such distress that she opted to terminate studying the Bible with the sister who had been vehemently repeating and insisting that she must purchase an off-white wedding dress in order to avoid giving the false impression that she was a virgin which she wasn't. I personally don't care if a bride chooses to wear white, or a yellow purple-polka-dotted dress and wouldn't mention it to her if I did.
 
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KWCrazy

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There is nothing better than two virgins coming together fresh.
Think about it.
No comparison to lovers past.
No STD's.
No worry that you won't measure up.
Just two people learning about their sexuality together.
This is the ideal. You only get one chance to marry your only lover. The Chinese say, when two divorced people marry, four get into bed. That means that there is no way to ignore all previous experiences.
My first wife was not a virgin. She had been raped when she was younger. It destroyed her self image. Her first real lover was killed in a car accident. When we came together she had experience and I did not. I couldn't change the things past. I lost out on the chance to give each other our innocence because of a rapist second cousin. Still, she was my only love. It lasted until she got bored and ran off with an old boyfriend from college whose parents were rich. Those old fires came back to haunt me because she filed for divorce and that was the end of it. She later married and divorced him. I guess it's easier the second time around.

The fewer obstructions to happiness you have in your life the better you are. Just remember that the true source of all love is God, because God IS love. Love God and each other, and everything else will take care of itself.
 
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Owen GB5

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There is nothing better than two virgins coming together fresh.
Think about it.
No comparison to lovers past.
No STD's.
No worry that you won't measure up.
Just two people learning about their sexuality together.
This is the ideal. You only get one chance to marry your only lover. The Chinese say, when two divorced people marry, four get into bed. That means that there is no way to ignore all previous experiences.
My first wife was not a virgin. She had been raped when she was younger. It destroyed her self image. Her first real lover was killed in a car accident. When we came together she had experience and I did not. I couldn't change the things past. I lost out on the chance to give each other our innocence because of a rapist second cousin. Still, she was my only love. It lasted until she got bored and ran off with an old boyfriend from college whose parents were rich. Those old fires came back to haunt me because she filed for divorce and that was the end of it. She later married and divorced him. I guess it's easier the second time around.

The fewer obstructions to happiness you have in your life the better you are. Just remember that the true source of all love is God, because God IS love. Love God and each other, and everything else will take care of itself.

I like your claim 'There is nothing better than two virgins coming together fresh.' We know this from experience and it is a good way to set out the journey that marriage, inevitably, always is. ('Fresh' is a good word in a lot of ways!)
The more a married couple has to share exclusively between themselves, the more special and unique the relationship in that marriage becomes. There is something very sweet and precious about knowing that you have a place that only has each other and your Heavenly Father. I believe that Scripture tells us this in a lot of places. But we can only know what it is like if we have been there.
 
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Paidiske

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Is it true a marriage has to have vows to be one?

In a sense, yes, in that law in western countries requires both parties to give free consent to the marriage (which is part of what the vows express).

Some Christian rites, such as the Orthodox, express their free consent in symbolic actions rather than words, but for most traditions it comes in the spoken vows.
 
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Sammy-San

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In a sense, yes, in that law in western countries requires both parties to give free consent to the marriage (which is part of what the vows express).

Some Christian rites, such as the Orthodox, express their free consent in symbolic actions rather than words, but for most traditions it comes in the spoken vows.

This sounds like absurd questions-at what point does a covenant become a marriage? We know same sex marriage is wrong (I assume apart from homosexuality-If I was a pastor-it would be wrong to marry two people of the same sex even if they weren't gay), but people say there were same gender covenants in the Bible.
 
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Paidiske

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This sounds like absurd questions-at what point does a covenant become a marriage? We know same sex marriage is wrong (I assume apart from homosexuality-If I was a pastor-it would be wrong to marry two people of the same sex even if they weren't gay), but people say there were same gender covenants in the Bible.

Covenants could be agreements governing all kinds of relationships, including friendships.

What makes a covenant a marriage is that it is a covenant for marriage, rather than for any other purpose.
 
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Sammy-San

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Covenants could be agreements governing all kinds of relationships, including friendships.

What makes a covenant a marriage is that it is a covenant for marriage, rather than for any other purpose.

What makes a covenant a marriage and not a friendship one?

It isn't suits and dresses and the trappings we think of when we say "getting married". I guess a legal union is it-but then again, Cain and his wife had no government.
 
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Paidiske

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What makes a covenant a marriage and not a friendship one?

It isn't suits and dresses and the trappings we think of when we say "getting married".

No, it would be the bit where it's specified that it's a marriage covenant. You know, where marriage ceremonies have the parties saying something like, "I, name, in the presence of God, take you, name, to be my wife..."
 
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Sammy-San

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No, it would be the bit where it's specified that it's a marriage covenant. You know, where marriage ceremonies have the parties saying something like, "I, name, in the presence of God, take you, name, to be my wife..."

Does this sound like a stupid question on the topic? I'm really confused even on some simple thins.

I read marriage isn't the union of souls and spirits-so I'm not sure that is what it means by sacred union-I don't think God unites souls.
 
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Sammy-San

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No, it would be the bit where it's specified that it's a marriage covenant. You know, where marriage ceremonies have the parties saying something like, "I, name, in the presence of God, take you, name, to be my wife..."

So is gay marriage bibically actually getting married (an evil version of it) or just counterfeit.
 
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Paidiske

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I think you've got to start defining terms. What do you mean by soul? For example.

For myself, I see marriage as primarily a legal and social agreement, which has a spiritual dimension.

I think that while gay marriage wouldn't be approved of in Biblical terms, where it's legal, it's no less real than marriage between a straight couple.
 
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Sammy-San

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I think you've got to start defining terms. What do you mean by soul? For example.

For myself, I see marriage as primarily a legal and social agreement, which has a spiritual dimension.

I don't think having rights, obligations, and benefits makes you married-those exist outside of marriage.
 
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Sammy-San

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I think you've got to start defining terms. What do you mean by soul? For example.

For myself, I see marriage as primarily a legal and social agreement, which has a spiritual dimension.

I think that while gay marriage wouldn't be approved of in Biblical terms, where it's legal, it's no less real than marriage between a straight couple.

13. On the Nature of the Marriage Union

Marriage is Not a Union of Souls or Spirits
The initial problem with discussion of spiritual union is definitional. What exactly does it mean? Are we talking about association, to whatever degree of intimacy, or about some more ontological union (union of being)? Often people who refer to marriage as a spiritual union or a union of souls begin talking this way when they attempt to describe the completeness of the marriage union. Steele and Ryrie (quoting Ross) conclude their discussion of marriage “intimacy” by saying: ‘To become one flesh means becoming a spiritual, moral, intellectual, and physical unity.”543 Obviously this does not mean mixing brain cells or sharing a common nervous system, so what does it mean? Perhaps it means nothing more than that the intimacy of marriage involves the couple “seeing things the same way.” They share a common moral standard, think alike, have sexual union. But, still, please, what does common “spirit” mean? Could that be a way of referring to a similar disposition? I believe this puts the best face on the matter. But note that all such elements of intimacy only occur if the couple makes the effort to integrate their individual concerns. An estranged couple clearly does not share any of these things. Thus, it would be more proper to say that marriage only involves such intimacy, but not that this is what it means to be married.
 
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Sammy-San

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I think you've got to start defining terms. What do you mean by soul? For example.

For myself, I see marriage as primarily a legal and social agreement, which has a spiritual dimension.

I think that while gay marriage wouldn't be approved of in Biblical terms, where it's legal, it's no less real than marriage between a straight couple.

If it isn't approved by God, how it is sacred then?
 
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