Virgin marriage.

[Sammy-San]

Some people will use terms like "holy matrimony," but that's not what defines marriage.

So it isnt bibical to say that marriage is holy?

 

[Paidiske]

Well, you might describe a particular marriage as holy, but I don't think a marriage being holy is what makes it a marriage. What makes a marriage is the free agreement of two people to live together in a marriage.

 

[Sammy-San]

Well, you might describe a particular marriage as holy, but I don't think a marriage being holy is what makes it a marriage. What makes a marriage is the free agreement of two people to live together in a marriage.

im confused-why did the OT forbid close relatives marrying if marriage and sex are two seperate things?

13. On the Nature of the Marriage Union

It would seem by consideration of this that the existence of a “one-flesh” relation does not determine the existence of marriage. It may call for it (marriage) in the case of “premarital sex,” but it is not the marriage itself. It is a “right of marriage.” The most we could say is that it is necessary, but not sufficient to make a marriage.

 

[Paidiske]

Well, when close relatives have children, genetic problems from inbreeding are common; that seems like a good reason to forbid it?

 

[Sammy-San]

Well, when close relatives have children, genetic problems from inbreeding are common; that seems like a good reason to forbid it?

How is a covenant itself sinful? I'm not saying it isnt im just confused.

 

[Paidiske]

Well, people could agree to do all sorts of things, some of them good, and some of them bad; the act of the agreement doesn't automatically make them either good or bad.

A covenant's basically just an agreement, and like any other agreement, could be good or bad.

 

[Sammy-San]

Well, people could agree to do all sorts of things, some of them good, and some of them bad; the act of the agreement doesn't automatically make them either good or bad.

A covenant's basically just an agreement, and like any other agreement, could be good or bad.

How is a covenant before God sinful if they are too closely related, if it isn't sexual?

 

[Paidiske]

Well, what would be the point of getting married with no intent to be sexual?

 

[Sammy-San]

Well, what would be the point of getting married with no intent to be sexual?

Is it a fake marriage or a bad version of it?

IIRC In OT Law there were penalties for marrying if they were siblings-my guess is it would violate the sanctity of marriage-am I right.

Based on what I said earlier, why exactly would them covenanting a commitment before God be a disgrace without incest?

Why was incest allowed in the Bible?

It is thought that there was no mention of a man marrying his daughter because the disgrace of the relationship was obvious (Genesis 2:24 may also indicate that marriage between children and parents had never been considered allowable); but a man could marry his niece.

People say marriage is God binding people in the flesh-meaning what?

 

[Paidiske]

Is it a fake marriage or a bad version of it?

I'm not sure I'd use either of those terms. Incomplete, maybe?

 

[Sammy-San]

I'm not sure I'd use either of those terms. Incomplete, maybe?

I'm talking about people who get married and cannot ethically consummate it. Is that why same sex and sibling marriages are sinful apart from the perversion aspects?

Sinful, or not pleasing to God at least.

Here is what I meant by trappings of a wedding.

1-A church, a clergy, suits and a white gown-people get married without those things.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm talking about people who get married and cannot ethically consummate it. Is that why same sex and sibling marriages are sinful apart from the perversion aspects?

I don't think so. Why do you need more reason than the "perversion aspects"?

1-A church, a clergy, suits and a white gown-people get married without those things.

Of course you can get married without all those things.

 

[Sammy-San]

I don't think so. Why do you need more reason than the "perversion aspects"?



Of course you can get married without all those things.

Was the marriage forbidden because that was presumed?

 

[Paidiske]

I have no idea what you're even asking any more, Sam. Are we going to get stuck on some irrelevant detail again?

 

[johnbastion]

You need to reject human philosophies based on elementary natural understanding of the world and honor what God the designer of marriage has said. (Col.2:8).
In the church, the family of God there is no place for sexual immorality, sexual partners etc... Those disgust God.
Taking your vows as virgins makes you respect your partner so much more knowing that in an honorable marriage, before God, you are giving yourself to each other - without having anybody else bothering you.
Marry a true Christian who knows, honors and obeys God's word, and you will not regret it.
I believe that that first experience sexually would be what you would remember for the rest of your life - that your partner saved themselves for you and gave you themselves wholly. It's precious. Ask those who regret having come into marriage with a sexual history.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I would like to know if virgins really do have a more intimate relationship because they are joined to only one other person. Obviously their relationship is more exclusive, but do they have a spiritual union because they are 'one flesh' (in a way that they can only be with one other person)?

Should God's design and instruction be doubted? Would He commend what wasn't best?

 

[Sir Robbins]

guess your age depends on it perhaps... I'm 30, never dated and obviously a virgin. I am finding it hard to find someone A) who is like me in that sense and B) who doesn't find me as a sad, strange person for being a virgin at 30 (these are from women in the church). I have read the longer you go, the worse it will be when you start (if you ever do) so if you don't marry by a certain age, the lost cause phase comes into effect. I would imagine it's more ideal for both partners to be virgins upon marriage or at least if they are the only committed relationship in their life. I mean, there'd be no comparison to worry about, no shame or bad feelings for not saving yourself if your partner did. I've seen shame come from that and sorrow from the virgin who found out their partner wasn't.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

guess your age depends on it perhaps... I'm 30, never dated and obviously a virgin. I am finding it hard to find someone A) who is like me in that sense and B) who doesn't find me as a sad, strange person for being a virgin at 30 (these are from women in the church). I have read the longer you go, the worse it will be when you start (if you ever do) so if you don't marry by a certain age, the lost cause phase comes into effect. I would imagine it's more ideal for both partners to be virgins upon marriage or at least if they are the only committed relationship in their life. I mean, there'd be no comparison to worry about, no shame or bad feelings for not saving yourself if your partner did. I've seen shame come from that and sorrow from the virgin who found out their partner wasn't.

There is never a situation when obeying God is the second-best option. How you are coming across women in the church who think otherwise just demonstrates how antinomian and worldly the church has become.

Sin has a cumulative effect. It kills. It destroys. It sears consciouses. . .

Of course, it is forgiven at the cross, but its consequences aren't erased.

Find a virgin and marry her.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Well, you might describe a particular marriage as holy, but I don't think a marriage being holy is what makes it a marriage. What makes a marriage is the free agreement of two people to live together in a marriage.

My Bible must omit those texts.

 

[Paidiske]

My Bible must omit those texts.

This is why - in the Christian west, at least - one is married by the making of vows. Those vows express free consent to the marriage. It's also why Christianity has rejected forced marriages as invalid.

Biblically, precedence for this is seen, for example, in seeking Rebekah's consent for her marriage to Isaac (Genesis 24:58).