Verizon Domestic Violence Vid

[MessianicMommy]

Why isnt it to determine if people are in a bad relationship, a failed relationship, a failing relationship, a horrible relationship, a dangerous relationship, an uncomfortable relationship, add more adjectives at will.....

why?

Because it likely is already all of the above?

 

[Athene]

Yes I do.

Well then, that would be the motive behind that particular question. Rape is a criminal activity, it is a horrendous attack on another human being. If you are being raped in your marriage then you need help and support. I don't see how this is so hard to understand tbh.

 

[Athene]

Why isnt it to determine if people are in a bad relationship, a failed relationship, a failing relationship, a horrible relationship, a dangerous relationship, an uncomfortable relationship, add more adjectives at will.....

why?

what

 

[Conservativation]

Its a very simple question....

If that list was headed with "to determine if ______________" and the things I listed, in lieu of abuse even if they are one in the same in some cases, would anyone use the list? Refer to the list? Does it even make sense to have that list? because thats what the list is saying, as synonyms, these are workable descriptors.

They just dont have POWER

Which reveals the recruitment agenda is far more important than actually getting someone to realize anything. the first priority is to get the label abuse on things, not to help someone realize they are being hurt or should be upset.

Imagine telling her "thats not right, you should be upset and do something"....that is true and of pure motive

the constant drumbeat of these abuse lists has less to do with helping anyone and lots to do with recruitment and empathy

 

[MessianicMommy]

My hands are tied legally as to linking these questionnaires to real life scenarios. sorry.

FWIW though, Männer-als-Opfer also has a similar list for individuals to decide if they are being abused. It can be found here, and is only listed in German. Google Translate gets most of it right.

 

[Conservativation]

I dont need them linked to real life scenarios.

I need the questions I just asked above to be addressed. They do not presuppose anything about real life, nor do they value judge anything on the list as being good or bad or indifferent.
They ask why the fixation on making lists about "abuse"

I know all the pat answers, like "well if it is abuse why not call it abuse" and any other that can be asked. I'd be grateful for someone to make an honest attempt at responding to my questions directly and with real tangible reasoning.

 

[dallasapple]

The thing is Cons..why are you makign an assumption that its a "fixation " on "making' lists about abuse?

I wrote out earlier how it is that someone who is being abused..will get conflicted..even a woman I know who was raped(trust me this was raped) by her husband said she "wasnt sure"..

Also as far as Im concerned..this it the "information ' age If I want to find out for instance what are the benefits of vitamin b..there are hours worth of reading out their on the web to inform me of exactly that and MORE on vitamin b..now i wouldnt say there exist a "fixation of making lists of the benefits of vitamin b"..and on something as prevelant as domestic violence..why would you not think there should be informatin readily available?

IOW I don't believe there IS a "fixation" so thats my answer to your question #2...why does it seem to BOTHER you so much that the information is THERE?Is this one of those things where since a certain # of people will "falsley" accuse we have to shut out hide..or make it extremely difficult for EVERYONE ?

Dallas

 

[Conservativation]

Because it likely is already all of the above?

EXACTLY!

Thank you

So, are you telling me that a woman is aware of all those things I listed, and STILL doesnt know there is a problem until, and ONLY until she is told its abuse?

Please see how ridiculous that is.

She is unhappy, hurting, angry, sad, upset, depressed....

BUT

ONLY when she sees that she is abused can she know something is wrong?

This is not credible. its nonsense these lists geared the way they are

 

[Athene]

Its a very simple question....

If that list was headed with "to determine if ______________" and the things I listed, in lieu of abuse even if they are one in the same in some cases, would anyone use the list? Refer to the list? Does it even make sense to have that list? because thats what the list is saying, as synonyms, these are workable descriptors.

They just dont have POWER

Which reveals the recruitment agenda is far more important than actually getting someone to realize anything. the first priority is to get the label abuse on things, not to help someone realize they are being hurt or should be upset.

Imagine telling her "thats not right, you should be upset and do something"....that is true and of pure motive

the constant drumbeat of these abuse lists has less to do with helping anyone and lots to do with recruitment and empathy

ISTM that the only active agenda is from those who don't want the label 'abuse' given to behaviours which are abusive. Now, who would benefit from that?

BTW, it's a common phenomenon, people not realising for a long time that they're in abusive relationships and often needing it to be pointed out to them. I don't even know why you're trying to argue against that tbh. Why are you btw?

 

[Athene]

I dont need them linked to real life scenarios.

I need the questions I just asked above to be addressed. They do not presuppose anything about real life, nor do they value judge anything on the list as being good or bad or indifferent.
They ask why the fixation on making lists about "abuse"

I know all the pat answers, like "well if it is abuse why not call it abuse" and any other that can be asked. I'd be grateful for someone to make an honest attempt at responding to my questions directly and with real tangible reasoning.

In other words, don't give the best and most concise answer. Those behaviours , if they happen repeatedly in a relationship, are abusive. That's why it's a list of abusive behaviours and not a list of behaviours that might make you a bit unhappy or whatever.

 

[dallasapple]

ONLY when she sees that she is abused can she know something is wrong?

NO..noboby said she wouldnt know SOMETHING is 'wrong"..if someone is experrincing something..and its causing certain feelings..and when they DESCRIBE it FITS the criteria for abuse..then ITS abuse..the fact they woudlnt have or hadnt yet identified with the "term" with what was happeining doesnt mean that because of that..what they experiencign wasnt and isnt ABUSE/...

Its like being an alcoholic Cons..MANY many acloholocs are in fact ALCOHOLICS before they ever RECOGNIZE thats what they are..its called DENIAL..and as Athene pointed out its COMMON knowledge..

Same thing with diseases..do you knwo how many people go into "shock' or denial after they are diagnosed with cancer?Even thoguht they have NO difficulty describing and CLAIMING thier symptoms?But calling it "Cancer" is terryfying and they dont IDENTIFY as a 'cancer patient'..?You have HEARD about it all your life..you may even have KNOWN peopel with it..but you are still in disbelief its about YOU ..

HECK death..how many people dont REALIZE we "all die"?Then when it happens to someone close to you ..you can still be in DISBELIEF ..and say things such as "I just saw them last week"..or 'I cant beelive they are gone..Well why the heck not?According to you they should not be surprised or in shock or ANY denial becasue don't you know we are ALL goign to DIE ...???

Dallas

 

[hijklmnop]

Are you suggesting that the idea that men can also be subject to abuse or that male child abuse victims mostly need the extra care and kindness that female child abuse victims need leads to marital rape?

???? I have no idea why you think I'm suggesting that. No, I'm not.

 

[Lilymay]

Just my thoughts... I think someone can know they are in an abusive relationship but rationalize it away.

Yes I am going personal here... I won't go into detail the abuse I suffered as a teenager other than to say it was horrid...

So when six months into my marriage when the pushing, slapping, biting, finger twisting (his favorite) started.... did I know it was abuse? Yes.. but I rationalized it away... it could be worse, been through worse, he never punched, etc. He rationalized it because he never punched.

So yes I knew it for what it was BUT... there was that but in my head for years. It came to a head 5 years into the marriage when one night he started getting physical and I had enough and tried to leave... it ended with him choking me in the driveway. <<< It took that to make my husband realize what he had been doing to me and for us to realize this ends here and now.... we need to break the cycle.

That is why I am so for teaching people that the cycle can and does break.

 

[dallasapple]

(((HUGS))) Lily..

Yes..even some stuff that happened to me I was EMBARRASED to say what it was because I might be "makign a big deal out of nothing"..and of course maybe its 'not that big of a deal COMPARED to what others have gone through"..along with the ratinalizing..there is also blaming your self..situations I have been in ..in my marraige included I have said..."if I hadnt X then that wouldnt have happened"..so its not "all his fault"..

Thats why I cringe sometimes when I hear a spouse usually a husband who will say 'sure im not perfect..but I "never beat her and I never cheated"..like if THAT isnt present..then there cant possibly be any major problems goiing on INCLUDING abusive behavors..I always think ..why not SAY what it is that you do that makes you "not perfect" instead of namign two extreme obvius things that you DONT do?Kind of like yoru husband saying he 'never punches"..well GREAT I guess Im not an abuser..as long as I "never stab my husband"..

I know..why not just lower the bar to murder?That you can say the person is being abused..if they have been murdered?But would that make the person that murdered them an "abuser"?..because you know once you give them that label..it could make things worse..like they could go in a shell or something..

Dallas

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Just my thoughts... I think someone can know they are in an abusive relationship but rationalize it away.

Yes I am going personal here... I won't go into detail the abuse I suffered as a teenager other than to say it was horrid...

So when six months into my marriage when the pushing, slapping, biting, finger twisting (his favorite) started.... did I know it was abuse? Yes.. but I rationalized it away... it could be worse, been through worse, he never punched, etc. He rationalized it because he never punched.

So yes I knew it for what it was BUT... there was that but in my head for years. It came to a head 5 years into the marriage when one night he started getting physical and I had enough and tried to leave... it ended with him choking me in the driveway. <<< It took that to make my husband realize what he had been doing to me and for us to realize this ends here and now.... we need to break the cycle.

That is why I am so for teaching people that the cycle can and does break.

(((HUGS))) Lily..

Yes..even some stuff that happened to me I was EMBARRASED to say what it was because I might be "makign a big deal out of nothing"..and of course maybe its 'not that big of a deal COMPARED to what others have gone through"..along with the ratinalizing..there is also blaming your self..situations I have been in ..in my marraige included I have said..."if I hadnt X then that wouldnt have happened"..so its not "all his fault"..

Thats why I cringe sometimes when I hear a spouse usually a husband who will say 'sure im not perfect..but I "never beat her and I never cheated"..like if THAT isnt present..then there cant possibly be any major problems goiing on INCLUDING abusive behavors..I always think ..why not SAY what it is that you do that makes you "not perfect" instead of namign two extreme obvius things that you DONT do?Kind of like yoru husband saying he 'never punches"..well GREAT I guess Im not an abuser..as long as I "never stab my husband"..

I know..why not just lower the bar to murder?That you can say the person is being abused..if they have been murdered?But would that make the person that murdered them an "abuser"?..because you know once you give them that label..it could make things worse..like they could go in a shell or something..

Dallas

These two posts are excellent examples of why we continue to post about this topic. So we don't forget just for one reason.

 

[mjmcmillan]

The flip side of the coin: Every now and then I look up stuff on Google, the following link is one I found while looking up "Male Victims of Domestic Violence". It sums up the present situation rather well. There's little enough to help women who have been abused, there's next to nothing to help men who have been abused. Take a look, there may be a shelter and/or counseling for women, for men there might be anger management classes to help him control himself so he won't abuse--- never mind that he's the one coming in with the black eyes and the broken nose. If he needs shelter-- maybe there's a homeless shelter he can try. Wish him luck, he's gonna need it.

Domestic Violence Against Men

 

[WalksWithChrist]

The flip side of the coin: Every now and then I look up stuff on Google, the following link is one I found while looking up "Male Victims of Domestic Violence". It sums up the present situation rather well. There's little enough to help women who have been abused, there's next to nothing to help men who have been abused. Take a look, there may be a shelter and/or counseling for women, for men there might be anger management classes to help him control himself so he won't abuse--- never mind that he's the one coming in with the black eyes and the broken nose. If he needs shelter-- maybe there's a homeless shelter he can try. Wish him luck, he's gonna need it.

Domestic Violence Against Men

Good link.

This is what happened to a friend of mine that I've mentioned before.

Abused men are afraid to leave their children alone with an abusive woman. They are afraid that if they leave they will never be allowed to see their children again. The man is afraid the woman will tell his children he is a bad person or that he doesn't love them.

 

[Avniel]

Domestic Violence: Abused Men - YouTube

I like the verbal abuse part now home many of yall really talk to your spouse like this

 

[Tannic]

Avniel,

I can relate to this video real well. The verbal especially is tough and than the pushing(and hitting). That's one thing I don't get though, how can a woman keep pushing and hitting anyone whether they are their spouse or not, and expect them to not fight back. I mean I won't hit a woman but there have been times where I literally walked out the door so nothing extreme would happen. And sometimes... the spouse is literally running after them like a bully and saying everything under the sun. And than act so holy when you see them again. The video is a nail in the coffin.

 

[mjmcmillan]

Avniel,

I can relate to this video real well. The verbal especially is tough and than the pushing(and hitting). That's one thing I don't get though, how can a woman keep pushing and hitting anyone whether they are their spouse or not, and expect them to not fight back. I mean I won't hit a woman but there have been times where I literally walked out the door so nothing extreme would happen. And sometimes... the spouse is literally running after them like a bully and saying everything under the sun. And than act so holy when you see them again. The video is a nail in the coffin.

It's an interesting dynamic, that. She gets away with something that no man would try without expecting a fight. Think about it: If some other man tried that with you, chances are real good there's gonna be a knock-down, drag out fight. Your wife gets away with it because (a) she's your wife and (b), if you're anything like me, you don't hit women and (c) somewhere in the back of your mind you realize you can't win, so the only thing left is to figure out--- if you can-- how to cut your losses.

I watched the video, it started to generate some flash-backs. If you've got a marriage that operates that way, REGARDLESS OF WHO HITS WHO, then you've got serious problems in your marriage.