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Venerate

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jckstraw72

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because you believe things that go against scripture! You believe things that are unscriptural and wrong! We are not to pray to mary> period!

nay, you believe unscriptural things. we both make arguments from Scripture. we can both claim learning from the Holy Spirit. so how do we, and all the others who disagree, figure it out? better yet, why do we have to figure it out -- what happened to the teachings of the apostles? why have they faded away, leaving us to try and interpret the Scriptures for ourselves? yes the Scriptures are the teachings of the apostles, but what happened to the meaning of the words? why is there so much confusion on the meaning of the words -- Paul taught his conregations in person what the words meant -- where has that meaning gone and why?
 
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IamAdopted

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that is quite simply not true. what did Christians do before the NT was even written?!
The Christians were reading the letters that were being sent out that is now our NT.. For when Paul could not get to them in Person He wrote to them what it was He would have said to them if He were there..
 
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jckstraw72

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The Christians were reading the letters that were being sent out that is now our NT.. For when Paul could not get to them in Person He wrote to them what it was He would have said to them if He were there..

Paul's first letters, to the Thessalonians, were written in about 50 AD. What did Christians do between 33 and 50 AD? And what did the Christians everywhere besides Thessalonica do, since they didnt have any letters yet for at least another few years? No Gospels till probably about the 60s -- what did Christians in those times do?! please, i just want a straightforward answer. you are making the claim that Christianity hinges entirely upon the Bible -- then how were there Christians before the Bible? Please just give a straightforward answer. Imagine you're a Christian in Rome -- you have not yet received a single piece of the NT -- what do you do?!
 
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IamAdopted

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Paul's first letters, to the Thessalonians, were written in about 50 AD. What did Christians do between 33 and 50 AD? And what did the Christians everywhere besides Thessalonica do, since they didnt have any letters yet for at least another few years? No Gospels till probably about the 60s -- what did Christians in those times do?! please, i just want a straightforward answer. you are making the claim that Christianity hinges entirely upon the Bible -- then how were there Christians before the Bible? Please just give a straightforward answer. Imagine you're a Christian in Rome -- you have not yet received a single piece of the NT -- what do you do?!
I go and listen to Paul .. :)
 
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lionroar0

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Venerate comes from Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, "to revere, to respect, to worship," from venus, vener-, "charm, loveliness."

As always those that suffer from CCphobia have fallen into F.E.A.R.=False, Evidence, Appearing, Real.

Let's look at the above defitnition and apply the correct use of commas so that we read and interpret the above definition.

1st the comma is being used to introduce a quotation.

This is the quotation:

"to revere, to respect, to worship,"

Now we have three words seperated by the commas.

The commas are being used to seperate a series of words.

These are those words : Revere
Respect
worship.

No where does venerate=worship belonging to God

Let's take a look at the definition of worship.

wor·ship noun, verb, -shiped, -ship·ing or (especially British
thinsp.png
) -shipped, -ship·ping.
–noun 1.reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. 2.formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning. 3.adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success. 4.the object of adoring reverence or regard. 5.(initial capital letter
thinsp.png
) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her). –verb (used with object) 6.to render religious reverence and homage to. 7.to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing). –verb (used without object) 8.to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity. 9.to attend services of divine worship. 10.to feel an adoring reverence or regard.


wor·ship n.
    1. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
    2. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
  1. Ardent devotion; adoration.
  2. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
worship
noun1. the activity of worshipping 2. a feeling of profound love and admiration
verb1. love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol; "Many teenagers idolized the Beatles" [syn: idolize] 2. show devotion to (a deity); "Many Hindus worship Shiva" 3. attend religious services; "They worship in the traditional manner"



www.dictionary.com

As there several definitions of worship. The evidence show that veneration does not mean worship that belongs to alone to God.

Peace
 
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lionroar0

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Well, it's just like scripture....how you should interpret scripture by scripture rather than take on verse and build a war around it.....instead you should read the Bible as a whole, for it all goes together perfectly and interprets itself............why am i saying this?...because you believe things that go against scripture! You believe things that are unscriptural and wrong! We are not to pray to mary> period!

Really!!!! Could you post where the Bible says that we are not supposed to, "pray to Mary." I want something explicit.

Peace
 
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lionroar0

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I go and listen to Paul .. :)

And that would be oral Tradition not written in the Bible.

http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/search.cfm

2) The oral tradition. "For, after the ascension of the Lord, the apostles handed on to their hearers what he had said and done, but with that fuller understanding which they, instructed by the glorious events of Christ and enlightened by the Spirit of truth, now enjoyed." 100


Peace
 
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malckiah

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Really!!!! Could you post where the Bible says that we are not supposed to, "pray to Mary." I want something explicit.

Peace

1 Timothy
2:5 "For there is one God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

Now show me one place in The Bible where it says to pray to her! .....i didnt think so!

God Bless!
 
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OutofDarkness

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I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.​
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).
Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to. 1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.
Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?
Whence then hath this man all these things? Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.
Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.
Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.​
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.
Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).
One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close. NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.
Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...​
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.
Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.
I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?
The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.
1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.
I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....
1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope]; I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. But i thought i would be kind and spare your eyes! :thumbsup:
 
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jckstraw72

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1 Timothy
2:5 "For there is one God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

Now show me one place in The Bible where it says to pray to her! .....i didnt think so!

God Bless!

that didnt answer his question at all!!! no one claims Mary is a mediator btwn us and God!!!
 
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Kristos

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Venerate comes from Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, "to revere, to respect, to worship," from venus, vener-, "charm, loveliness."

"And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt." Jeremiah 25:6


Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"
This is basic ignorance. If you took the time to fully research the subject you would see there is a clear and concise difference between the two in understanding and in practice.
 
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lionroar0

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1 Timothy
2:5 "For there is one God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

This does not say not to pray to her.



Now show me one place in The Bible where it says to pray to her! .....i didnt think so!

We are to pray for one anothe and God is God of the living not of the dead.

Peace
 
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