I don't care what H2o said or didn't say. He's only cause here is to ridicule the vegetarian and vegan diet. I was just providing a list of vegan sources of B12.
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Vegetarianism
- Thread starter Tibby
- Start date
Naw I don't think so... knowing that you may have a vitamin deficiency in your diet of choice is pretty important information. How many people who are vegetarians don't know this I wonder? Is vitamin B12 an essential vitamin (or can the body synthesize it?) ... like ADEK ?
Vitamin B12 Deficiency Symptoms:
Vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms, like those of many other treatable health conditions, can be virtually identical to age dementia symptoms, senile dementia symptoms and Alzheimers symptoms. As many as 20% of people over age 65 have low Vitamin B12 levels. Correcting the deficiency can help older people resume a full and normal lives.
Vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms include:
Loss of appetite
Diarrhea
Numbness and tingling of hands and feet
Paleness
Shortness of breath
Fatigue
Weakness
Sore mouth and tongue
Confusion or change in mental status in severe or advanced cases. This is sometimes confused with dementia. More importantly, even a moderate deficiency of this important vitamin and its counterpart, folic acid, may ultimate contribute to the onset of Alzheimers disease or other related dementias.
fallen^sparrow
Vitamin B12 Deficiency Symptoms:
Vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms, like those of many other treatable health conditions, can be virtually identical to age dementia symptoms, senile dementia symptoms and Alzheimers symptoms. As many as 20% of people over age 65 have low Vitamin B12 levels. Correcting the deficiency can help older people resume a full and normal lives.
Vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms include:
Loss of appetite
Diarrhea
Numbness and tingling of hands and feet
Paleness
Shortness of breath
Fatigue
Weakness
Sore mouth and tongue
Confusion or change in mental status in severe or advanced cases. This is sometimes confused with dementia. More importantly, even a moderate deficiency of this important vitamin and its counterpart, folic acid, may ultimate contribute to the onset of Alzheimers disease or other related dementias.
fallen^sparrow
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Meat eaters can be B12 deficient as well. You talk as though it is only vegans who do. Perhaps you should be educating your fellow meat eaters on this important vitamin. Most vegetarians and vegans I know, do a lot of nutritional reseach on their diet and know how to eat properly.
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H2o
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Several studies have been done documenting B12 deficiencies in vegan children, often with dire consequences (12). Additionally, claims are made in vegan and vegetarian literature that B12 is present in certain algae, tempeh (a fermented soy product) and Brewer's yeast. All of them are false as vitamin B12 is only found in animal foods. Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 naturally; they are always fortified from an outside source.
There is not real B12 in plant sources but B12 analogues -- they are similar to true B12, but not exactly the same and because of this they are not bioavailable (13). It should be noted here that these B12 analogues can impair absorption of true vitamin B12 in the body due to competitive absorption, placing vegans and vegetarians who consume lots of soy, algae, and yeast at a greater risk for a deficiency (14).
The only reliable and absorbable sources of vitamin B12 are animal products, especially organ meats and eggs (17). Though present in lesser amounts than meat and eggs, dairy products do contain B12. Vegans, therefore, should consider adding dairy products into their diets. If dairy cannot be tolerated, eggs, preferably from free-run hens, are a virtual necessity.
That vitamin B12 can only be obtained from animal foods is one of the strongest arguments against veganism being a "natural" way of human eating.
12. J Mills and others. Cancer-incidence among California Seventh-day Adventists, 1976-1982. Am J Clin Nutr, 1994, 59 (suppl):1136S-42S; see also RL Phillips. Canc Res, 1975, 35:3513-3522 which showed that Seventh Day Adventist physicians had higher colon cancer rates than the general population.
13. L Serra-Majem and others. How could changes in diet explain changes in coronary heart disease? The Spanish Paradox. Amer J Clin Nutr, 1995, 61:1351S-9S.
14. JS Baghurst and others. Does red meat cause cancer? Aust J Nutr Diet, 1997, 54(4):S1-S44.
17. HH Draper. The Aboriginal Eskimo diet in modern perspective. Amer Anthropol, 1977, 79:309-316; (b) GV Mann. Atherosclerosis and the Masai. Amer J Epidem, 1972, 95:6-37; (c) GV Mann. Diet and disease among the milk and meat eating Masai warriors of Tanganyika. Food Nutr, 1963, 24:104.
29a. J Brasco. Low Grain and Carbohydrate Diets Treat Hypoglycemia, Heart Disease, Diabetes Cancer and Nearly ALL Chronic Illness. Posted here and accessed on January 4, 2002. See also L. Cordain. Cereal grains:humanitys double-edged sword. World Rev Nutr Diet, 1999, 84:20-73.
There is not real B12 in plant sources but B12 analogues -- they are similar to true B12, but not exactly the same and because of this they are not bioavailable (13). It should be noted here that these B12 analogues can impair absorption of true vitamin B12 in the body due to competitive absorption, placing vegans and vegetarians who consume lots of soy, algae, and yeast at a greater risk for a deficiency (14).
Generally, in most parts of the world, whenever cereal-based diets were first adopted as a staple food replacing the primarily animal-based diets of hunter-gatherers, there was a characteristic reduction in stature, a reduction in life span, an increase in infant mortality, an increased incidence of infectious disease, an increase in diseases of nutritional deficiencies (i.e., iron deficiency, pellagra), and an increase in the number of dental caries and enamel defects. (29a)
Is this his answer to the inadequacies of vegetarian and vegan diets? How did our ancestors survive before vitamin pills existed? By eating adequate animal foods, thats how. Instead of recommending the natural solution to the B12 problem, your article advises us to forsake healthful foods and pop pills -- an unnatural solution, indeed. It sounds like in the vitamin form is hard to absorb into the body. Why eat food at all? Why not just take vitamins and eat junk food?
The only reliable and absorbable sources of vitamin B12 are animal products, especially organ meats and eggs (17). Though present in lesser amounts than meat and eggs, dairy products do contain B12. Vegans, therefore, should consider adding dairy products into their diets. If dairy cannot be tolerated, eggs, preferably from free-run hens, are a virtual necessity.
That vitamin B12 can only be obtained from animal foods is one of the strongest arguments against veganism being a "natural" way of human eating.
12. J Mills and others. Cancer-incidence among California Seventh-day Adventists, 1976-1982. Am J Clin Nutr, 1994, 59 (suppl):1136S-42S; see also RL Phillips. Canc Res, 1975, 35:3513-3522 which showed that Seventh Day Adventist physicians had higher colon cancer rates than the general population.
13. L Serra-Majem and others. How could changes in diet explain changes in coronary heart disease? The Spanish Paradox. Amer J Clin Nutr, 1995, 61:1351S-9S.
14. JS Baghurst and others. Does red meat cause cancer? Aust J Nutr Diet, 1997, 54(4):S1-S44.
17. HH Draper. The Aboriginal Eskimo diet in modern perspective. Amer Anthropol, 1977, 79:309-316; (b) GV Mann. Atherosclerosis and the Masai. Amer J Epidem, 1972, 95:6-37; (c) GV Mann. Diet and disease among the milk and meat eating Masai warriors of Tanganyika. Food Nutr, 1963, 24:104.
29a. J Brasco. Low Grain and Carbohydrate Diets Treat Hypoglycemia, Heart Disease, Diabetes Cancer and Nearly ALL Chronic Illness. Posted here and accessed on January 4, 2002. See also L. Cordain. Cereal grains:humanitys double-edged sword. World Rev Nutr Diet, 1999, 84:20-73.
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Well if that's what you believe, go eat your meat, but leave those who do not agree with you alone. Why do you think it is your mission to ridicule those who do not eat meat?H2o said:
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H2o
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Thats totally a false statement.....I'm not here to ridicule anyone. I'm trying to give information on the subject at hand because as I read the post in this thread I saw a lot a falsehoods coming from non-meat eatersveggie said:
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All the nutrients a human being needs for optimum health can be obtained from plant foods, with the exception of vitamin B12. The fact that vitamin B12 must be supplemented in a vegan diet does not mean that the diet itself is inadequate.
All vitamin B12 comes from bacteria and is found in the soil as well as in the intestines of animals. At one time vitamin B12 was readily available in our soil and water supplies, and the minute amount that humans require was easy to get. Today our land and waterways are polluted, making it is essential that our produce is thoroughly cleaned before we eat it and our water is purified before we drink it, thus eliminating any available B12.
The B12 that is produced in the intestines of animals gets incorporated into their tissue; hence it is found in meat and other animal products such as cow's milk and eggs. Humans also produce vitamin B12 from bacteria found in the large intestine (colon). However, vitamin B12 is absorbed in the small intestine much higher up, rendering the B12 from the colon unusable.
It was once believed that sea vegetables and certain cultured or fermented foods, such as tempeh and miso, were good sources of vitamin B12. However, these foods contain what are called B12 analogs. These are B12-like compounds that have no vitamin activity and could actually compete with real vitamin B12 for absorption. Therefore, relying on these foods for B12 might actually increase a vegan's risk for deficiency.
Humans store large amounts of vitamin B12, and new vegans who have eaten B12-rich diets in the past may have enough in storage to last them several years. Most B12 deficiency is due to absorption problems that are not related to diet. Nevertheless, it is reasonable to expect that B12 levels in many vegans will decrease over time as stores are used up. Also, B12 is absorbed less efficiently as we age, raising the risk for deficiency, particularly when diets are already low in B12.
Although overt vitamin B12 deficiency is not very common among the vegan population, vegans do tend to have lower B12 levels. Indications of B12 deficiency may be subtle to severe, ranging from neurological problems to memory impairment, and these symptoms may be irreversible. Low B12 levels can also raise the risk for other health problems, and blood tests may not always be able to detect B12 anemia since certain conditions may mask early signs. Among health professionals, there is very little disagreement that vegans need to supplement their diets with vitamin B12.
The easiest way to add B12 to the diet is with vitamin supplements. Vegans can also use fortified foods. Many breakfast cereals, meat analogs, and milk alternatives that have been enriched with vitamin B12 are excellent sources (check the labels), as are certain brands of nutritional yeast, such as Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula. The vitamin B12 that is used to fortify these foods is obtained from bacterial cultures, not animal products, and is vegan.
http://www.vegsource.com
All vitamin B12 comes from bacteria and is found in the soil as well as in the intestines of animals. At one time vitamin B12 was readily available in our soil and water supplies, and the minute amount that humans require was easy to get. Today our land and waterways are polluted, making it is essential that our produce is thoroughly cleaned before we eat it and our water is purified before we drink it, thus eliminating any available B12.
The B12 that is produced in the intestines of animals gets incorporated into their tissue; hence it is found in meat and other animal products such as cow's milk and eggs. Humans also produce vitamin B12 from bacteria found in the large intestine (colon). However, vitamin B12 is absorbed in the small intestine much higher up, rendering the B12 from the colon unusable.
It was once believed that sea vegetables and certain cultured or fermented foods, such as tempeh and miso, were good sources of vitamin B12. However, these foods contain what are called B12 analogs. These are B12-like compounds that have no vitamin activity and could actually compete with real vitamin B12 for absorption. Therefore, relying on these foods for B12 might actually increase a vegan's risk for deficiency.
Humans store large amounts of vitamin B12, and new vegans who have eaten B12-rich diets in the past may have enough in storage to last them several years. Most B12 deficiency is due to absorption problems that are not related to diet. Nevertheless, it is reasonable to expect that B12 levels in many vegans will decrease over time as stores are used up. Also, B12 is absorbed less efficiently as we age, raising the risk for deficiency, particularly when diets are already low in B12.
Although overt vitamin B12 deficiency is not very common among the vegan population, vegans do tend to have lower B12 levels. Indications of B12 deficiency may be subtle to severe, ranging from neurological problems to memory impairment, and these symptoms may be irreversible. Low B12 levels can also raise the risk for other health problems, and blood tests may not always be able to detect B12 anemia since certain conditions may mask early signs. Among health professionals, there is very little disagreement that vegans need to supplement their diets with vitamin B12.
The easiest way to add B12 to the diet is with vitamin supplements. Vegans can also use fortified foods. Many breakfast cereals, meat analogs, and milk alternatives that have been enriched with vitamin B12 are excellent sources (check the labels), as are certain brands of nutritional yeast, such as Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula. The vitamin B12 that is used to fortify these foods is obtained from bacterial cultures, not animal products, and is vegan.
http://www.vegsource.com
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H2o
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vitamin A, or retinol and its associated esters, is only found in animal fats and organs like liver (26). Plants do contain beta-carotene, a substance that the body can convert into vitamin A if certain conditions are present [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beta-carotene, however, is not vitamin A. It is typical for vegans and vegetarians (as well as most popular nutrition writers) to say that plant foods like carrots and spinach contain vitamin A and that beta-carotene is just as good as vitamin A. These things are not true even though beta-carotene is an important nutritional factor for humans.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The conversion from carotene to vitamin A in the intestines can only take place in the presence of bile salts. This means that fat must be eaten with the carotenes to stimulate bile secretion. Additionally, infants and people with hypothyroidism, gall bladder problems or diabetes (altogether, a significant portion of the population) either cannot make the conversion, or do so very poorly. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lastly, the body's conversion from carotene to vitamin A is not very efficient: it takes roughly 6 units of carotene to make one unit of vitamin A. What this means is that a sweet potato (containing about 25,000 units of beta-carotene) will only convert into about 4,000 units of vitamin A (assuming you ate it with fat, are not diabetic, are not an infant, and do not have a thyroid or gall bladder problem) [27].[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Relying on plant sources for vitamin A, then, is not a very wise idea. This provides yet another reason to include animal foods and fats in our diets. Butter and full-fat dairy foods, especially from pastured cows, are good vitamin A sources, as is cod liver oil. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vitamin A earned its name from the fact that it was the first vitamin discovered. Researchers in the 1930s described vitamin A as the "anti-infective vitamin" as it is intimately involved in the health of the mucous membranes and in fighting off infections. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beta-carotene, however, is not vitamin A. It is typical for vegans and vegetarians (as well as most popular nutrition writers) to say that plant foods like carrots and spinach contain vitamin A and that beta-carotene is just as good as vitamin A. These things are not true even though beta-carotene is an important nutritional factor for humans.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The conversion from carotene to vitamin A in the intestines can only take place in the presence of bile salts. This means that fat must be eaten with the carotenes to stimulate bile secretion. Additionally, infants and people with hypothyroidism, gall bladder problems or diabetes (altogether, a significant portion of the population) either cannot make the conversion, or do so very poorly. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lastly, the body's conversion from carotene to vitamin A is not very efficient: it takes roughly 6 units of carotene to make one unit of vitamin A. What this means is that a sweet potato (containing about 25,000 units of beta-carotene) will only convert into about 4,000 units of vitamin A (assuming you ate it with fat, are not diabetic, are not an infant, and do not have a thyroid or gall bladder problem) [27].[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Relying on plant sources for vitamin A, then, is not a very wise idea. This provides yet another reason to include animal foods and fats in our diets. Butter and full-fat dairy foods, especially from pastured cows, are good vitamin A sources, as is cod liver oil. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vitamin A earned its name from the fact that it was the first vitamin discovered. Researchers in the 1930s described vitamin A as the "anti-infective vitamin" as it is intimately involved in the health of the mucous membranes and in fighting off infections. [/font]
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H2o
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Supplementation, then, of vitamin A could be of great help to someone who is facing vision problems, poor thyroid function, weakened immunity, and assorted infections, particularly those of the respiratory and urinary tract (these areas are lined with mucous membranes). When approaching supplementation, a couple of things need to be kept in mind: [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Supplements of beta-carotene (or foods containing it such as orange and yellow plant foods) are NOT the same as those with vitamin A. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Beta-carotene is the metabolic precursor of vitamin A; it must be converted into real vitamin A in the intestines along with the help of bile salts, thyroid hormone, and dietary fat. Infants, and those with diabetes, alcoholism, hypothyroidism, and/or liver or gall bladder problems cannot make this conversion. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Additionally, the body's conversion of beta-carotene to active vitamin A is very poor: it takes roughly 6 units of beta-carotene to make just one unit of vitamin A. Be sure, then, that you pruchase supplements that very clearly state that they are REAL vitamin A and not beta-carotene.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Consumers are often warned that vitamin A can be toxic if taken to excess. Pregnant women are also warned that too much vitamin A can cause birth defects. Such warnings are overblown. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Though vitamin A can produce toxicity symptoms if taken to excess, it takes a huge and massive amount to generate them. There have been studies done of people who have taken 300,000 units of vitamin A a day for over a year with NO adverse effects. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. One has little to fear of overdosing on this nutrient. Additionally, the toxicity symptoms of excess vitamin A disappear quickly once supplementation is stopped.Studies done on pregnant women with vitamin A were actually done with an acne medicine made from a synthetic derivative of synthetic vitamin A -- in other words, a drug, not real vitamin A. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Beta-carotene is the metabolic precursor of vitamin A; it must be converted into real vitamin A in the intestines along with the help of bile salts, thyroid hormone, and dietary fat. Infants, and those with diabetes, alcoholism, hypothyroidism, and/or liver or gall bladder problems cannot make this conversion. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Additionally, the body's conversion of beta-carotene to active vitamin A is very poor: it takes roughly 6 units of beta-carotene to make just one unit of vitamin A. Be sure, then, that you pruchase supplements that very clearly state that they are REAL vitamin A and not beta-carotene.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Consumers are often warned that vitamin A can be toxic if taken to excess. Pregnant women are also warned that too much vitamin A can cause birth defects. Such warnings are overblown. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Though vitamin A can produce toxicity symptoms if taken to excess, it takes a huge and massive amount to generate them. There have been studies done of people who have taken 300,000 units of vitamin A a day for over a year with NO adverse effects. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. One has little to fear of overdosing on this nutrient. Additionally, the toxicity symptoms of excess vitamin A disappear quickly once supplementation is stopped.Studies done on pregnant women with vitamin A were actually done with an acne medicine made from a synthetic derivative of synthetic vitamin A -- in other words, a drug, not real vitamin A. [/font]
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H2o
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Claims are made in vegan and vegetarian literature that B12 is present in certain algae, tempeh (a fermented soy product) and Brewer's yeast. All of them are false as vitamin B12 is only found in animal foods. Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 naturally; they are always fortified from an outside source.
I think your article mostly supported my claims.
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Selected Plant Sources of Vitamin A (from beta-carotene) (18)
Plant sources of beta-carotene are not as well absorbed as animal sources of vitamin A, especially when they are consumed whole and raw. However, they are still a valuable source of this vitamin.[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva] Food[/font]
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/cc/vita.html#table5
Plant sources of beta-carotene are not as well absorbed as animal sources of vitamin A, especially when they are consumed whole and raw. However, they are still a valuable source of this vitamin.[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva] Food[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]IU/ International Units[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]%DV *[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Carrot, 1 raw (7 [size=-1]1/2[/size] inches long)[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]20,250 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]410 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Carrots, boiled, 1/2 cup slices[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]19,150 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]380[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Carrot juice, canned, 1/2 c[/font]up
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]12,915 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]260 [/font]
Sweet potatoes, canned , drained solids, 1/2 cup
7,015
140
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Spinach, frozen, boiled, 1/2 cup[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]7,395 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]150 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Mango, raw, 1 cup sliced[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]6,425[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]130 [/font]
Vegetable soup, canned, chunky, ready-to-serve, 1 cup
5,880
115
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Cantaloupe, raw, 1 cup[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]5,160 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]100 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Kale, frozen, boiled, 1/2 cup[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]4,130[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]80[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Spinach, raw, 1 cup[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]2,015[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]40[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Apricot nectar, canned, 1/2 cup[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]1,650[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]35[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Oatmeal, instant, fortified, plain, prepared with water, 1 packet[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]1,510[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]3[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]0 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Tomato juice, canned, 6 ounces[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]1,010[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]20[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Apricots, with skin, juice pack, 2 halves[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]610[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]10[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Pepper, sweet, red, raw, 1 ring, 3 inches in diameter by 1/4-inch thick[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]570[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]10[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Peas, frozen, boiled, 1/2 cup[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]535[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]0 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Peach, raw, 1 medium[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]525[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]10 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Peaches, canned, water pack, 1/2 cup halves or slices[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]470[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]10[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]Papaya, raw, 1 cup cubes[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]400[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, Geneva]8[/font]
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/cc/vita.html#table5
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Tami
Your friendly neighborhood FUNdie at your service!
Ok, if you choose not to believe that Adam and Eve literally existed that's fine. I however do believe that they literally existed and I believe that God knew best what they should eat. You may go on trusting in your studies and I will go on believing that God would not give Adam and Eve an inferior diet. Have a nice day.H2o said:
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Using your logic in Genesis 9 God attempts to hurt us by telling us we can eat meat.Tami said:Ok, if you choose not to believe that Adam and Eve literally existed that's fine. I however do believe that they literally existed and I believe that God knew best what they should eat. You may go on trusting in your studies and I will go on believing that God would not give Adam and Eve an inferior diet. Have a nice day.
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Tami
Your friendly neighborhood FUNdie at your service!
Personally, H2o, I don't know why God allowed meat-eating in Genesis 9. God has the right to do whatever He wants. I don't necessarily need to know the reason why He gave permission to eat meat. It won't change my stance one way or the other because I still believe that God would not give Adam and Eve an unhealthy diet. Here are some websites that give possible reasons why God allowed meat-eating. I don't necessarily endorse either website. I'm just throwing out some of other people's ideas on why God allowed meat consumption. I haven't drawn any of my own conclusions as to why God allowed meat-eating whereas He didn't before. Frankly, it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me. Anyway, here they are. Anyone may pick them apart as they please.H2o said:
http://www.bible.com/answers/avegetar.html
http://www.heaven.net.nz/answers/answer16.htm
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Lets not go there H2o ... intentionally trying to aggrivate someone isn't a good idea ... at least here. Your going to make a moderator step in and shut this good thread down.
Things definately changed after "the fall of man." Not only did humans begin consuming flesh but other creatures as well. Is it God's will that a lion kills and consumes a wildebeast calf instead of eating herbacious material? I honestly don't even know if you can feed a lion soy based "steaks" ... heh. Perhaps someone here has some info on whether other carnivores (other then humans) can be taught to eat or at least physiologically handle a meat free diet. All I know is that in the "here and now" God has said its "OK" to consume creatures that he has supplied for our use. I however, also believe that things will change again in the future ... and when they do I'll happily give up my roast-chicken. But until I hear otherwise ... I'll continue to consume what God has given me... because HE knows best what we need to live healthy lives.
fallen^sparrow
Things definately changed after "the fall of man." Not only did humans begin consuming flesh but other creatures as well. Is it God's will that a lion kills and consumes a wildebeast calf instead of eating herbacious material? I honestly don't even know if you can feed a lion soy based "steaks" ... heh.
Perhaps someone here has some info on whether other carnivores (other then humans) can be taught to eat or at least physiologically handle a meat free diet. All I know is that in the "here and now" God has said its "OK" to consume creatures that he has supplied for our use. I however, also believe that things will change again in the future ... and when they do I'll happily give up my roast-chicken. But until I hear otherwise ... I'll continue to consume what God has given me... because HE knows best what we need to live healthy lives. fallen^sparrow
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a servant of YHVH
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Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by His mom, dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him] !!
"The love of money is the root of all evil." This is a very well-known phrase. Many don't know it comes from Scripture (I Timothy 6:10). Often it is misstated as "money is the root of all evil". It is LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. This explains the great mess that the sciences are in today. It is a l-o-o-o-o-n-g and ugly history unknown to almost all.
That is where another Scripture later on in the same chapter as above comes into play.
"... avoiding profane, vain babblings, and OPPOSITIONS of science FALSELY so called. (I Timothy 6:20)"
Herein lies the crux of the matter of this entire thread.
The Scriptures are not a science manual. Yet in those matters addressed in Scripture there is no contradiction of science that is true, and conversely science that is true does not contradict Scripture.
The vast majority of that which passes for health sciences is rubbish.
Meat eating was not introduced in Scripture until after the flood. Adam and Eve were given explicit instructions regarding what to eat and it was all non-animal and said to be for them as their "meat".
The later instruction to Noah regarding meat does not invalidate the experience of Adam and Eve.
Now for those who wish to invalidate Adam and Eve ... well, this is suppose to be a Christian forum. Nonetheless ...
My wife was vegan when she became pregnant with our last child (a son). He was breastfed for more than a year and then spent a short time on some goat milk (raw OF COURSE). After that he was vegan AND VIBRANT until after he turned 6 -- no "vitamin" (apply I Timothy 6:20 here) B-12 deficiency here. He ate a little meat and since then has on rare occasion eaten meat (he's 12).
There is no such thing as a 'vitamin' so the B-12 and A vs. carotene arguments are moot.
Originally these substances were called "vitamines". The original spelling was with an 'e' for erroneous reasons. When the error became inescapable rather than admitting the error scientists just dropped the 'e' and made up a different definition. [Not admitting errors is a favorite pasttime of scientists for more than 100 years.] They've been modifying the definition ever since rather than admitting the error. "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." The web is intricately and inexorably tangled after more than a century of scientific deceit.
These "vitamine" needs (alleged) are created needs rather than actual needs. One does not need "B-12" (or any other "vitamin") from food unless their dietary consumption is of an erroneous nature i.e. excessive protein (which is why protein is so chock full of these "vitamin" substances), stripped carbs, altered fats, etc.. .
Most veggies try to adapt their veggie ways with a meat eating mind set and that is why they often have so many problems. They need to clean the slate.
For the record, I eat meat (a little on occasion though not close to daily) because I like it though I would be better off to avoid it entirely (a personal vice of mine). I am very picky about the meat that I do on the odd and rare occasion consume.
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
"The love of money is the root of all evil." This is a very well-known phrase. Many don't know it comes from Scripture (I Timothy 6:10). Often it is misstated as "money is the root of all evil". It is LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. This explains the great mess that the sciences are in today. It is a l-o-o-o-o-n-g and ugly history unknown to almost all.
That is where another Scripture later on in the same chapter as above comes into play.
"... avoiding profane, vain babblings, and OPPOSITIONS of science FALSELY so called. (I Timothy 6:20)"
Herein lies the crux of the matter of this entire thread.
The Scriptures are not a science manual. Yet in those matters addressed in Scripture there is no contradiction of science that is true, and conversely science that is true does not contradict Scripture.
The vast majority of that which passes for health sciences is rubbish.
Meat eating was not introduced in Scripture until after the flood. Adam and Eve were given explicit instructions regarding what to eat and it was all non-animal and said to be for them as their "meat".
The later instruction to Noah regarding meat does not invalidate the experience of Adam and Eve.
Now for those who wish to invalidate Adam and Eve ... well, this is suppose to be a Christian forum. Nonetheless ...
My wife was vegan when she became pregnant with our last child (a son). He was breastfed for more than a year and then spent a short time on some goat milk (raw OF COURSE). After that he was vegan AND VIBRANT until after he turned 6 -- no "vitamin" (apply I Timothy 6:20 here) B-12 deficiency here. He ate a little meat and since then has on rare occasion eaten meat (he's 12).
There is no such thing as a 'vitamin' so the B-12 and A vs. carotene arguments are moot.
Originally these substances were called "vitamines". The original spelling was with an 'e' for erroneous reasons. When the error became inescapable rather than admitting the error scientists just dropped the 'e' and made up a different definition. [Not admitting errors is a favorite pasttime of scientists for more than 100 years.] They've been modifying the definition ever since rather than admitting the error. "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." The web is intricately and inexorably tangled after more than a century of scientific deceit.
These "vitamine" needs (alleged) are created needs rather than actual needs. One does not need "B-12" (or any other "vitamin") from food unless their dietary consumption is of an erroneous nature i.e. excessive protein (which is why protein is so chock full of these "vitamin" substances), stripped carbs, altered fats, etc.. .
Most veggies try to adapt their veggie ways with a meat eating mind set and that is why they often have so many problems. They need to clean the slate.
For the record, I eat meat (a little on occasion though not close to daily) because I like it though I would be better off to avoid it entirely (a personal vice of mine). I am very picky about the meat that I do on the odd and rare occasion consume.
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
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a servant of YHVH
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Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by His mom, dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him] !!
Acts 10 has nothing whatsoever to do with eating meat (see verse 28).
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
Acts 10 has nothing whatsoever to do with eating meat (see verse 28).
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
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0
A
a servant of YHVH
Guest
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by His mom, dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him] !!
Romans 14 has nothing whatsoever to do with vegetarianism (see the book of Zechariah).
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
Romans 14 has nothing whatsoever to do with vegetarianism (see the book of Zechariah).
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
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0
A
a servant of YHVH
Guest
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua [that's the name Jesus was called by His mom, dad, brothers, sisters, disciples and others who loved Him] !!
This will be brief. Full understanding requires much more elaboration. For the scientists (so called) amongst us consider this an abstract.
Mankind lived routinely for almost a thousand years without consuming animal products.
Man's imperfection brought about much evil with all this time on their hands.
It repented YHVH that he made man and in Genesis 6:3 He noted that man's life would be cut to only 120 years.
Somehow (reason not stated) man knew a differentiation between clean and unclean beasts (Genesis 7) YET ...
YHVH in Genesis 9 gave the OK to eat meat (for first time and no restrictions were noted). This was one means (though not the only one) by which The Almighty accomplished His will set forth in Genesis 6:3. This was a PROTECTIVE factor ... to protect man from himself and the excessive evil that he brought upon himself through length of days by shortening those days.
Eventually The Almighty lessened their years even further to 70 generally speaking. When calling out a people for Himself he let them in on only eating the clean animals (though this may possibly have been known by some) "that it may be well with you" ... see also Deuteronmy 29:29.
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
This will be brief. Full understanding requires much more elaboration. For the scientists (so called) amongst us consider this an abstract.
Mankind lived routinely for almost a thousand years without consuming animal products.
Man's imperfection brought about much evil with all this time on their hands.
It repented YHVH that he made man and in Genesis 6:3 He noted that man's life would be cut to only 120 years.
Somehow (reason not stated) man knew a differentiation between clean and unclean beasts (Genesis 7) YET ...
YHVH in Genesis 9 gave the OK to eat meat (for first time and no restrictions were noted). This was one means (though not the only one) by which The Almighty accomplished His will set forth in Genesis 6:3. This was a PROTECTIVE factor ... to protect man from himself and the excessive evil that he brought upon himself through length of days by shortening those days.
Eventually The Almighty lessened their years even further to 70 generally speaking. When calling out a people for Himself he let them in on only eating the clean animals (though this may possibly have been known by some) "that it may be well with you" ... see also Deuteronmy 29:29.
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The LORD)
a servant of YHVH
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