Vegetarianism

[theeyesoftammyfaye]

I think we all agree that we have bodies that can and are ment to digest meat, but there are also examples in the Bible where vegitarienism is respected. However the reasons I advocate meat reducing are different from what is found in the Bible...

http://www.jesusveg.com

a good site on the above mentioned topic.

 

[Jinn_Ku]

Thank you, Multi-Elis. That is a very good point.

ChristianFollowers,
I never said, nor hinted towards today's livestock being anywhere near as healthy as those from Jesus time. But you seem to be overlooking the fact that most of the plants consumed in this country have been heavily treated with chemicals also.

I also never said a vegetarian diet was wrong or unhealthy. As far as protein goes, I never said a vegetarian diet is lacking protein, only that most people (and not just vegetarians) don't realize that all protein is not the same.

If you honestly believe farmers abuse their animals, you should spend some time on a farm.

Now this thread is about information against a vegetarian diet. If you have nothing to add to this topic, there is no need for you to post. If you would like to start a thread about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet, then feel free (and I would contribute to that also, as there are many benefits to such a diet). If you'd like to go in depth about how evil farmers are towards their livestock, start a thread and I'll be there. But for now we need to keep this thread on track.

Have a nice day.

 

[Beastt]

I think we all agree that we have bodies that can and are ment to digest meat, but there are also examples in the Bible where vegitarienism is respected. However the reasons I advocate meat reducing are different from what is found in the Bible...

After fairly extensive research on this topic, I have to suggest that this is not the case. Those who choose to consume meat suffer far greater incidence of disease due to the human body's inability to properly digest meat. It is perhaps the number one killer of people in developed countries. Human physiology, particularly the digestive system, places us, biologically, in the herbivorous catagory. Of course this is contrary to what most people have been lead to believe, but the physiology is there for anyone to see and compare.

The problems with the vegetarian diet are social ones. Being "different" always comes at a price and I believe that it's fairly easy to under-estimate the difficulty in choosing a diet which is "abnormal" for the society one lives in. This is especially true in societies for which eating is so much a part of the social interaction.

 

[Multi-Elis]

But since the flood God did allow people to eat meat if they wanted to. Just remember the experament with Daniel and his friends to see if there are any benefits to a vegetarien diet, despite God's allowence...

I was asked to give my sources for why the humain body is more adapted to eating meat than other primates. I know for sure that our appendix is shorter than theirs. My father was the source for the info on the length of the digestive track. Appon asking him, he says that he read it in New Scientist. (Our digestive track is shorter than other primates, even if it is definetly a more vegetable orriented system)

My conclusion is that we are built to survive on whatever we find at hand, but that a vegetarien diet is to be respected... I don't know about it's benifits, I've always been a healthy person and I'm still young, so I can't say "ever since I became a vegitarien I feel so much better" But like I say, the Bible supports it being a healthy diet, even if it gives people free choice to eat meat.

 

[ChristFollowers]

Thank you, Multi-Elis. That is a very good point.

ChristianFollowers,
I never said, nor hinted towards today's livestock being anywhere near as healthy as those from Jesus time. But you seem to be overlooking the fact that most of the plants consumed in this country have been heavily treated with chemicals also.

I also never said a vegetarian diet was wrong or unhealthy. As far as protein goes, I never said a vegetarian diet is lacking protein, only that most people (and not just vegetarians) don't realize that all protein is not the same.

If you honestly believe farmers abuse their animals, you should spend some time on a farm.

Now this thread is about information against a vegetarian diet. If you have nothing to add to this topic, there is no need for you to post. If you would like to start a thread about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet, then feel free (and I would contribute to that also, as there are many benefits to such a diet). If you'd like to go in depth about how evil farmers are towards their livestock, start a thread and I'll be there. But for now we need to keep this thread on track.

Have a nice day.

I have spent time on farms.....I am a pre-vet student so I intern at alot on farms and farm sanctuaries. I know exactly what goes on on farms and how animals are treated.

I dont just visit farms like some do...I have worked at alot of farms and seen the abuse. When you visit a farm of course they will treat the animals with respect because there are people there visiting. Unless you have exactly worked on a farm....you wouldnt understand how the animals are treated. Some farms treat animals good...some don't.

All I have to say about plants is.....some people do eat organic plants.

Anyways...I agree.....let's stay on topic. We don't want a mod to shut down this thread.

 

[Multi-Elis]

I have to correct what I said about Daniel.... I'm sorry it is more radical than I thought.... Beastt you will be happy.... Daniel and his friends went on a vegan diet, eating nuts seeds and the like, and drinking water... They were better looking and healthier of flesh than the normal teenagers who ate from the king's table. The difference was noticible with in ten days. Miralce or no, I don't know, but I believe there is something to it. Anybody want to give a nut&water diet a try?

 

[Beastt]

Your comment about God allowing the comsumption of animal flesh is quite thought provoking. I don't wish to drift off topic, but since diet and physiology must go together for health to be consistent, did God change human physiology after the flood? Man's digestive system would seem to indicate that his body has remained the same. Why then would God tell us we could consume meat, knowing that our bodies would suffer for the change? Perhaps this is the price for ingesting the bodies of other sentient beings? I don't know. It all seems just a bit confusing to me.

I do appreciate what you pointed out about Daniel's vegan experiement in the Bible. I can't say that I would recommend a diet completely devoid of fruits and vegetables, as nuts, seeds and legumes are a bit too rich in fats and proteins by themselves but is it possible that there were other things allowed in the diet that just weren't mentioned?

Personally, the Bible seems to me to be less a full-blown source for diet information and more of a historical record of diet through the ages. God was said to allow many things, including slavery, even going so far as to state to what degree slaves could be punished, when they could be kept and how long. But I'm not sure that should be taken as God's intention that one man possess another as his slave. Perhaps meat and slavery were God's concessions to man. Since we seemed determine to do these, and many other things that had been forbidden, God chose to offer some guidance in doing what he wished that we would not do. Just a thought.

 

[Multi-Elis]

Perhaps, perhaps. We know the verses in the new testment about how to treat people who do or who don't eat meat sacrificed to idols, and I think that's a good attitude towards food.

as nuts, seeds and legumes are a bit too rich in fats and proteins by themselves but is it possible that there were other things allowed in the diet that just weren't mentioned?

Could be. Perhaps that is why they were "healthy of flesh" in only 10 days. Healthy in the Bible is often defined as "not thin" being thin would indicate malnutrition... healthy could even mean plump... it says that a certain king was so "healthy" that when he was peirced with a sowrd, the blade went all the way in, I think even the handle... just to show you what happens when people get too "healthy" by the bible's definitions.

I think the Bible isn't a nutrition guide book. Only an attitude guide book, I guess.

 

[zoe_uu]

I'm looking for some good info against Vegetarianism. I found plenty of good stuff for, but I can't find any good webpages AGAINST it. I know they have to be out there, but I can't find them!

Why would you want info against it? If you want to eat meat, then eat it. Why do you need info telling you to do it?

 

[Tami]

I'm looking for some good info against Vegetarianism. I found plenty of good stuff for, but I can't find any good webpages AGAINST it. I know they have to be out there, but I can't find them!

The reason you can't find any dirt on the vegetarian diet is because there's nothing wrong with it. God originally gave Adam and Eve a vegan diet:

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Gen. 1:29

There is no mention of animal products of any kind in that verse. If animal products were necessary for good health, God would have told Adam and Eve to eat them in the first place, but He didn't. God did, later, say it was ok to eat meat. I'm not condemning meat. I eat meat myself. I'm just saying that a vegan diet is very healthy and that's why you are not able to find anything against it, because it's God's original diet that He gave to Adam and Eve. He knew what He was doing.

 

[Beastt]

The reason you can't find any dirt on the vegetarian diet is because there's nothing wrong with it. God originally gave Adam and Eve a vegan diet:

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Gen. 1:29

There is no mention of animal products of any kind in that verse. If animal products were necessary for good health, God would have told Adam and Eve to eat them in the first place, but He didn't. God did, later, say it was ok to eat meat. I'm not condemning meat. I eat meat myself. I'm just saying that a vegan diet is very healthy and that's why you are not able to find anything against it, because it's God's original diet that He gave to Adam and Eve. He knew what He was doing.

You show amazing insight for someone who hasn't discontinued consumption of meat. It's quite refreshing to hear that someone who still eats meat can be so open to a diet that excludes it. I will say though that when humans consume meat, their health does suffer. Perhaps one day, if it suits you, you'll try a meatless diet and see how it goes.

 

[Tami]

Actually, we're trying to go that route. Our family is trying to shift towards a mostly vegan diet because we're trying to get healthier. I don't know that we'll ever totally give up meat. I think I would be fine to completely give it up but I also don't want to be a nuisance to the rest of my family around the holidays or birthdays or other family get togethers. I don't want them to think that we think we're too good to eat their food so I figure once in awhile eating meat won't kill me. I know it's not a sin to eat meat so eating it once in awhile won't bother me.

 

[Beastt]

Actually, we're trying to go that route. Our family is trying to shift towards a mostly vegan diet because we're trying to get healthier. I don't know that we'll ever totally give up meat. I think I would be fine to completely give it up but I also don't want to be a nuisance to the rest of my family around the holidays or birthdays or other family get togethers. I don't want them to think that we think we're too good to eat their food so I figure once in awhile eating meat won't kill me. I know it's not a sin to eat meat so eating it once in awhile won't bother me.

I can do nothing but commend you on your ideas about your diet change. I have a friend who, after months of teasing me about my diet, started to shift her views. I was stunned one day when she asked for help in changing to a vegetarian diet. I immediately suggested that she should do nothing to make herself feel locked into the concept of not eating meat. I know how hard it can be to go to restaurants or attend social gatherings with meat being such an extensive part of the American diet and felt that she should allow herself special occassions to avoid conflicts.

She promptly ignored my advice and completely cut out all meat, poultry and fish and began limiting eggs, cheese and milk. The more she began to adjust the more she became interested in diet. In two or three years time she had read more, researched more and found more to support her choice than I probably have in my whole life. And she loves her new diet! She has told me that she feels more energetic, more alert and physically stronger. Within 6-months of the time she stopped eating meat she told me that just the thought of putting dead animal flesh in her mouth was almost enough to prompt a gag reflex.

But, as you pointed out, there are some difficulties. She made the diet change while the rest of her family looked on as if she'd turned into some kind of alien. She was good-naturedly teased by some members of the family and intermittently copied by others. But today it seems that everyone has accepted her diet choice and it's rarely a topic of family discussions anymore. When relatives get together for meals, she has a few dishes made without meat that she happily shares with anyone who wishes to try them and everyone gets along as well as they ever did. I can't say it would work as well for everyone who tries it but it seems to me to be well worth the attempt.

 

[violetstar]

Why are you so against , I read lots of articles which states being a vegeterian is far more healthier then being a carnivores in fact research saids we are suppose to eat at least two days a week without meat. In the beginning of the bible they were vegan until we sinned, why are there so many diseases associated with meat? You never heard of fruit killing you, unless from some farmers stupidity that why you must first rinse. I eat meat but I know I would feel better if I did not. Then I would not have too worry about getting sick. In fact we know we all have gotten sick, probably several times from meat.

 

[Tami]

I eat meat but I know I would feel better if I did not. Then I would not have too worry about getting sick.

violetstar,

You are right. You will feel better if you quit eating meat. I haven't had any animal products for almost a week now and I already feel better. I have more energy now that I haven't been eating animal products. I used to not be able to get through the day without a nap in the afternoon. I've still been a little tired but not enough to feel like I have to have a nap. It's only been about a week since I've cut out animal products and I'm sure that with time I'll feel even better. I don't even miss animal products at all and I don't want to go back to them and feel as bad as I did before.

 

[darb]

Try the Weston A Price Foundations web site. They have many reasons vegetarianism is bad. One of the main reasons is that it is very hard to get all the fats your body needs. Your body actually need saturated fats, cholesterol.

 

[Tami]

Try the Weston A Price Foundations web site. They have many reasons vegetarianism is bad. One of the main reasons is that it is very hard to get all the fats your body needs. Your body actually need saturated fats, cholesterol.

Your body makes it's own cholesterol and too much saturated fat is unhealthy. Also, there are plant sources of saturated fats so you don't have to eat animal products to get it.

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/cholesterol/cholesterol.html

http://www.cchs.net/health/health-info/docs/0000/0091.asp?index=4024

http://www.healthrecipes.com/saturated_fats.htm

 

[Greenriser]

Although the biggest distinction between a vegitarian diet is not eating meat, how does differences in something like rice and soymilk (w/out milk and wheat) affect your body instead of eating milk and wheat, on a vegitarian diet? Was there a study on this?

 

[Tami]

Although the biggest distinction between a vegitarian diet is not eating meat, how does differences in something like rice and soymilk (w/out milk and wheat) affect your body instead of eating milk and wheat, on a vegitarian diet? Was there a study on this?

Rice milk isn't bad for you, especially if you make it yourself. You can easily find rice milk recipes online. All it is is rice, water, and a little vanilla. You could probably find some not-so-healthy commercially prepared rice milks if they add artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives so check the label.

Here's some stuff on soy:

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/29/1728_67482

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/80/96416.htm

http://www.parentwatch.com/content/display.asp?c=c_0236

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10189040&dopt=Abstract

http://www.healthcastle.com/benefitsofsoy_heart.shtml

http://www.veggiepatch.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/591

 

[Beastt]

Rice and soy milk can be great stuff. I use rice milk on my cold cereal. But as with many other things, some is good, some is great and some is nasty. And if you expect it to taste like bovine lactation, you'll be disappointed. So if you try it, try it on its own merits rather than as a milk clone. It also lacks the blood, pus and chemicals in milk so you may or may not miss that.