Vegan

[Ilovegod888]

I never said plants were sentient beings, I'm talking about all of the field animals that are killed when a field is plowed and harvested. Those are sentient beings you don't care about because you would rather sate your appetite. This is not based on the Bible, but on the realities of what it takes to farm crops. If you count all of the mice that are killed at grain storage facilities, then your diet kills more sentient life than mine does.

It's ridiculous for you to make an argument from the Bible and then criticize me for using the Bible to show that your argument is wrong. If you also refuse to make an argument from your beliefs for why it is wrong, then I have no reason to think so. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but you're the person who has arbitrarily decided it is wrong, but your inconsistent actions show that you don't really believe that it is wrong.

I've already state a few times that I stand corrected about what veganism is, so there is one thing I've learned from this conversation. I've also stated a number of times that this is a Community Hangout forum, not a VEGAN forum.

 

[Ilovegod888]

I never said plants were sentient beings, I'm talking about all of the field animals that are killed when a field is plowed and harvested. Those are sentient beings you don't care about because you would rather sate your appetite. This is not based on the Bible, but on the realities of what it takes to farm crops. If you count all of the mice that are killed at grain storage facilities, then your diet kills more sentient life than mine does.

It's ridiculous for you to make an argument from the Bible and then criticize me for using the Bible to show that your argument is wrong. If you also refuse to make an argument from your beliefs for why it is wrong, then I have no reason to think so. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but you're the person who has arbitrarily decided it is wrong, but your inconsistent actions show that you don't really believe that it is wrong.

I've already state a few times that I stand corrected about what veganism is, so there is one thing I've learned from this conversation. I've also stated a number of times that this is a Community Hangout forum, not a VEGAN forum.

 

[Ilovegod888]

I never said plants were sentient beings, I'm talking about all of the field animals that are killed when a field is plowed and harvested. Those are sentient beings you don't care about because you would rather sate your appetite. This is not based on the Bible, but on the realities of what it takes to farm crops. If you count all of the mice that are killed at grain storage facilities, then your diet kills more sentient life than mine does.

It's ridiculous for you to make an argument from the Bible and then criticize me for using the Bible to show that your argument is wrong. If you also refuse to make an argument from your beliefs for why it is wrong, then I have no reason to think so. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but you're the person who has arbitrarily decided it is wrong, but your inconsistent actions show that you don't really believe that it is wrong.

I've already state a few times that I stand corrected about what veganism is, so there is one thing I've learned from this conversation. I've also stated a number of times that this is a Community Hangout forum, not a VEGAN forum.

 

[Brookelowe454]

I never said plants were sentient beings, I'm talking about all of the field animals that are killed when a field is plowed and harvested. Those are sentient beings you don't care about because you would rather sate your appetite. This is not based on the Bible, but on the realities of what it takes to farm crops. If you count all of the mice that are killed at grain storage facilities, then your diet kills more sentient life than mine does.

It's ridiculous for you to make an argument from the Bible and then criticize me for using the Bible to show that your argument is wrong. If you also refuse to make an argument from your beliefs for why it is wrong, then I have no reason to think so. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but you're the person who has arbitrarily decided it is wrong, but your inconsistent actions show that you don't really believe that it is wrong.

I've already state a few times that I stand corrected about what veganism is, so there is one thing I've learned from this conversation. I've also stated a number of times that this is a Community Hangout forum, not a VEGAN forum.

You kill animals when you drive in a car. You kill animals by breathing. You kill animals by living on this planet. If you want to get that specific, then go ahead, but the fact is, you kill animals DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY. Not only do you eat plants, like I do, but you eat MEAT also. So in fact, you kill MORE animals than I do. I didn't realize that you couldn't count.

I'm sorry, but it is your actions that are inconsistent, not mine. You say all of this babble from the bible, and then you act like you were stating facts. Vegans DO save more lives, and they protest against the meat industry, while you don't even bother. I'm trying to make a change here, while you stick to bad habits.

I'm getting tired of you not looking at the big picture. Stop trying to prove that I'm a hypocrite, when I don't kill those animals directly. Every being on this earth kills an animal in some way, so don't even try to pretend like a VEGAN diet kills more animals than yours does. You can keep arguing all you want, but just know that you will never win.

 

[Ilovegod888]

I never said plants were sentient beings, I'm talking about all of the field animals that are killed when a field is plowed and harvested. Those are sentient beings you don't care about because you would rather sate your appetite. This is not based on the Bible, but on the realities of what it takes to farm crops. If you count all of the mice that are killed at grain storage facilities, then your diet kills more sentient life than mine does.

It's ridiculous for you to make an argument from the Bible and then criticize me for using the Bible to show that your argument is wrong. If you also refuse to make an argument from your beliefs for why it is wrong, then I have no reason to think so. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but you're the person who has arbitrarily decided it is wrong, but your inconsistent actions show that you don't really believe that it is wrong.

I've already state a few times that I stand corrected about what veganism is, so there is one thing I've learned from this conversation. I've also stated a number of times that this is a Community Hangout forum, not a VEGAN forum.

http://topvideosclip.com/watch/?vid=Kf2zPgD8v3M

 

[Rajni]

This is a vegan community hangout forum, so feel free to leave, and eat a steak (I mean corpse) instead.

Wait a minute. If this is a strictly vegan forum,
then who is the "you" being addressed in the very
first post?

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[Brookelowe454]

I never said plants were sentient beings, I'm talking about all of the field animals that are killed when a field is plowed and harvested. Those are sentient beings you don't care about because you would rather sate your appetite. This is not based on the Bible, but on the realities of what it takes to farm crops. If you count all of the mice that are killed at grain storage facilities, then your diet kills more sentient life than mine does.

It's ridiculous for you to make an argument from the Bible and then criticize me for using the Bible to show that your argument is wrong. If you also refuse to make an argument from your beliefs for why it is wrong, then I have no reason to think so. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but you're the person who has arbitrarily decided it is wrong, but your inconsistent actions show that you don't really believe that it is wrong.

I've already state a few times that I stand corrected about what veganism is, so there is one thing I've learned from this conversation. I've also stated a number of times that this is a Community Hangout forum, not a VEGAN forum.

Also, 70% of the grain grown in the U.S. is fed to livestock. So not only do you kill all of the mice in the grain storage facilities, you also kill all of the animals you eat when you eat meat.... So don't tell me that I cause MORE deaths when you do too.....

 

[Ilovegod888]

Wait a minute. If this is a strictly vegan forum,
then who is the "you" being addressed in the very
first post?

-

I was talking about people who were interested in veganism. Not for some person to spread their corpse eating on a VEGAN thread.

 

[Brookelowe454]

Wait a minute. If this is a strictly vegan forum,
then who is the "you" being addressed in the very
first post?

-

Ilovegod888 wanted this forum for people who were open to change, not people that refuse to change, yet they waste their time posting, like Soyeong, and you. Unless of course, you are open to change? (Which I highly doubt, because of the idiotic article that you posted... Can't really take you seriously.)

 

[Soyeong]

This is a VEGAN thread as stated in the title. You keep using your kosher animals as an excuse, face it, you have NO sense of morality when you only think of yourself. Plants want to be eaten, animals don't. Keep paying people to slaughter INNOCENT animals. Why don't you bring your religion in an argument somewhere where people agree. You eat animals who are caked in manure and you act all high and mighty, have fun with your bones. It's time to wash your hands, Soyeong, they are bloody.

Indeed, it is a VEGAN topic in a Community Hangout forum, so anyone in the community can discuss the topic regardless of whether or not they are vegans. Morality is based on God, so if God commands kosher meat to be eaten, then it is not immoral. Looking at the source of morality to try to determine which things are moral is the correct way to go about it, not an excuse. You claim to be a Christian and claim to love the Bible, so I should be able to appeal to common ground and you should agree, but so far you just want to seem to ignore it. Pretending that God didn't give us kosher animals to eat as food doesn't make it go away. I'm using my Christian religion for why Christians shouldn't think that it is wrong, but I'm not using it for why non-Christians shouldn't think that it is wrong. But you have also offered no non-religious argument for why it is wrong and I have offered an argument for why your beliefs are inconsistent and why your hands are also stained with animal blood. Even if it is true that you don't pay people to slaughter as many INNOCENT animals as I do, you still need to wash your hands too.

 

[Ilovegod888]

"Growing more crops would increase in the use of fertilisers, herbicides, pesticides and other threats to biodiversity and environmental health. In some cases rangelands have been substantially altered to increase the percentage of stock-friendly plants. Ploughing and harvesting kill small mammals, snakes, lizards and other animals in vast numbers. In addition, millions of mice are poisoned in grain storage facilities every year. You might not think the billions of insects and spiders killed by grain production are sentient, though they perceive and respond to the world around them. Replacing red meat with grain products leads to many more sentient animal deaths, far greater animal suffering and significantly more environmental degradation. "

I was wrong about veganism. Let them eat meat – but farm it properly:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation

Farm it properly? It's not a plant, it's an animal. People have no sense of decency.

 

[Rajni]

I was talking about people who were interested in veganism. Not for some person to spread their corpse eating on a VEGAN thread.

Well I think you both have pretty much ruined that prospect
with the increasingly (PETA-induced?) vitriol with which you push
your beliefs. You couldn't possibly have thought that your
post wouldn't invite other opinions on the matter... could you?
Especially given that those of other views are the intended
audience.

At any rate, the only group with any moral superiority in the
gastronomic department is the Jains. They're truly the only
ones qualified to preach (and, ironically, I never see them
do so).



-

 

[Soyeong]

Again, there is a lot of land that can be used for grazing, but which isn't suitable for raising crops, so not using that land for grazing would be inefficient.

 

[Soyeong]

Farm it properly? It's not a plant, it's an animal. People have no sense of decency.

As in free range, not factory farming conditions.

 

[Ilovegod888]

Indeed, it is a VEGAN topic in a Community Hangout forum, so anyone in the community can discuss the topic regardless of whether or not they are vegans. Morality is based on God, so if God commands kosher meat to be eaten, then it is not immoral. Looking at the source of morality to try to determine which things are moral is the correct way to go about it, not an excuse. You claim to be a Christian and claim to love the Bible, so I should be able to appeal to common ground and you should agree, but so far you just want to seem to ignore it. Pretending that God didn't give us kosher animals to eat as food doesn't make it go away. I'm using my Christian religion for why Christians shouldn't think that it is wrong, but I'm not using it for why non-Christians shouldn't think that it is wrong. But you have also offered no non-religious argument for why it is wrong and I have offered an argument for why your beliefs are inconsistent and why your hands are also stained with animal blood. Even if it is true that you don't pay people to slaughter as many INNOCENT animals as I do, you still need to wash your hands too.

Did you see Brooke Lowe's post, this explains why my hands are clean. Watch the video, you create way more SUFFERING. The animals I kill by accident lived a happy life, yours were tortured and beat. You can't torture a plant or the animals I may have killed. You are actually Jewish and the Christians I know don't believe in kosher animals. Plus if it's bad for you, why do you eat? No reason. You're not my religion so don't even bother. Read page 1 of the Bible, they were VEGAN before they SINNED. If you are human, you would know that God created us to LOVE animals, not torture them.
1. “And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” —Genesis 1:30

2. “But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the royal rations of food and wine … Then Daniel asked … ‘Let us be given vegetables to eat and water to drink.’ … At the end of ten days it was observed that they appeared better and fatter than all the young men who had been eating the royal rations.” —Daniel 1:8, 11–12, 15

3. “The wolf and the lamb shall feed together; the lion shall eat straw like an ox; but the serpent—its food shall be dust! They shall not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain.” —Isaiah 65:25

4. “But ask the animals, and they will teach you; the birds of the air, and they will tell you.” —Job 12:7

5. “The righteous know the needs of their animals, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.” —Proverbs 12:10

6. “He gives to the animals their food, and to the young ravens when they cry.” —Psalms 147:9

7. “I will make for you a covenant on that day with the wild animals, the birds of the air, and the creeping things of the ground; and I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land; and I will make you lie down in safety.” —Hosea 2:18

8. “How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the wickedness of those who live in it the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, ‘He is blind to our ways.'” —Jeremiah 12:4

9. “Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten in God’s sight.” —Luke 12:6

10. “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O Lord.” —Psalms 36:6

11. “Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.” —Matthew 5:7
I think you get it know. God gave you animals to love, not to torture. That's what you are doing Soyeong.

 

[Ilovegod888]

Again, there is a lot of land that can be used for grazing, but which isn't suitable for raising crops, so not using that land for grazing would be inefficient.

They GROW grain for this purpose. If you still think they are grazing then you are living in a fairytale. They eat corn because the USA is too cheap to feed them what they are supposed to eat. Also, it makes them fatter.

 

[Ilovegod888]

As in free range, not factory farming conditions.

 

[Brookelowe454]

Well I think you both have pretty much ruined that prospect
with the increasingly (PETA-induced?) vitriol with which you push
your beliefs. You couldn't possibly have thought that your
post wouldn't invite other opinions on the matter... could you?
Especially given that those of other views are the intended
audience.

At any rate, the only group with any moral superiority in the
gastronomic department is the Jains. They're truly the only
ones qualified to preach (and, ironically, I never see them
do so).



-

I think you should open your mind a little. The reason Ilovegod888 was "preaching" to you is because it is for your benefit. We do not need to share our lifestyle with you, yet we choose to do so. Why? Because we want everyone to be able to follow such an amazing lifestyle. If you disagree, that's fine, but us vegans don't want an argument. All we want is an open mind, not insults.

 

[Ilovegod888]

Well I think you both have pretty much ruined that prospect
with the increasingly (PETA-induced?) vitriol with which you push
your beliefs. You couldn't possibly have thought that your
post wouldn't invite other opinions on the matter... could you?
Especially given that those of other views are the intended
audience.

At any rate, the only group with any moral superiority in the
gastronomic department is the Jains. They're truly the only
ones qualified to preach (and, ironically, I never see them
do so).


Beliefs? More like facts. PETA states FACTS, you couldn't even think of one that would further your argument. Do you think I would believe PETA if it didn't produce scientific FACTS? No. Because I am logical. You are okay to disagree, but please have facts. I agree with @Brookelowe454.

 

[Soyeong]

Again it takes lots of resources to grow crops too which also causes environmental damage and kills sentient animals. If everyone became vegans, do you have any idea how much damage to the environment would be done in order to clear land to support that?