Vegan

[Grabs Popcorn]

Thanks for the advice guys, but the fact is nobody lives forever, so I might just as well carry on eating meat and anything else, and if I make it to my 70's or 80's I'll have had a good innings and enjoyed it all the way by eating stuff I like..

Incidentally I saw this article on the net but I don't know if it's accurate, what do you think-
"Linda McCartney, Davy Jones, Maurice Gibb, Robin Gibb and Donna Summer were all veggies who died young. (The Gibbs both developed colorectal cancer) and now Angelina Jolie has ditched her vegan diet because she's fed up of being ill.
Furthermore a veterinarian wrote in the paper that veggies sometimes bring in their pet dogs and cats with dull coats and listlessness, and it turns out they've been feeding their pets a non-meat diet (pet shops sell it specially), how cruel is that?"

PS- And God himself says it's okay to eat meat, so who are we to disagree?..
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)
"Moses then said to Aaron and his sons, "Cook the meat at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and eat it there with the bread from the basket of ordination offerings, as I commanded." (Leviticus 8:31)
"You may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the Lord your God gives you" (Deuteronomy 12:15)
"He took his yoke of oxen and slaughtered them. He burned the plowing equipment to cook the meat and gave it to the people, and they ate" (1 Kings 19:21)
"On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines" (Isaiah 25:6)

 

[Todd Madruga]

No matter what people say, I truly believe that God told me to be vegan. He gave me the strength to watch those horrifying videos. He helped me with the transition. Page 1 of the bible says that Adam and Eve were vegans before they sinned. Not saying eating meat is a sin. I'm just pointing out that they were healthy and didn't eat meat. I know some people don't believe that animals have souls, but they still feel pain. I believe, that animals are God's not ours to slaughter and torture. You may be thinking, I don't slaughter the animal. While that may be true, you pay others to do it for you when you purchase your meat. Take a look at the World Health Organization, they say that processed meat can cause cancer! I hope that those who look at this forum, can think about what they are eating. You may also think that it is already dead, but when you buy it, you give them more money to do it again. Supply on demand. Not saying you have to go vegan, just saying that for me, I think it brought me closer to God.
Sources:
101 reasons to go vegan
jesuspeopleforanimals.com
World Health Organization

Hi Ilovegod888,

I apologize if what I'm about to say has already been mentioned, as I briefly skimmed through the multitude of responses and wanted to reply quickly. You can eat whatever you like, and if you feel God has led you to become a vegan then more power to you my friend. Let no one judge you for this decision as these things are merely a shadow of things to come.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(KJV)

This subject brings to mind the story of Daniel. Remember in Daniel 1 when himself, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were in Babylon and a portion of the king's meat and drink were given to them daily? Daniel refused, as these were ultimately meat and drink offerings made to idols and Daniel did not want to defile himself by partaking of them. I don't blame him.

He then requested the prince of the eunuchs give him "pulse" (vegetables) to eat for a period of 10 days, at the end of which Daniel and his friends all appeared fairer and fatter in flesh. See below.

Daniel 1:9-16
9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.
10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.
11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,
12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.
13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.
14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.
15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.
16 Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.
(KJV)

We have to be careful discussing these issues, as we can inadvertently cause them to become a stumbling block for our fellow Christians and it's not worth having a brother or sister fall away from Christianity over a carnal matter such as this. But as Christ said...

Matthew 5:37
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
(KJV)

And I've seen many good Christians have their faith rattled over heated debates. It's so not worth it. Paul addressed this same topic actually.

Romans 14:1-8
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
(KJV)

God bless, my friend! I hope this was helpful.

 

[pastor marty]

No matter what people say, I truly believe that God told me to be vegan. He gave me the strength to watch those horrifying videos. He helped me with the transition. Page 1 of the bible says that Adam and Eve were vegans before they sinned. Not saying eating meat is a sin. I'm just pointing out that they were healthy and didn't eat meat. I know some people don't believe that animals have souls, but they still feel pain. I believe, that animals are God's not ours to slaughter and torture. You may be thinking, I don't slaughter the animal. While that may be true, you pay others to do it for you when you purchase your meat. Take a look at the World Health Organization, they say that processed meat can cause cancer! I hope that those who look at this forum, can think about what they are eating. You may also think that it is already dead, but when you buy it, you give them more money to do it again. Supply on demand. Not saying you have to go vegan, just saying that for me, I think it brought me closer to God.
Sources:
101 reasons to go vegan
jesuspeopleforanimals.com
World Health Organization

Dear 888,2 eat or not 2 eat,that is easy. Either/or are 'ok' (per St. Paul).Tis the love in yer heart,not the burger or quiche in yer belly that matters. B/Blessed,kiddo ! marty

 

[pastor marty]

How do you know that God created us to live in harmony with animals? Why is it some animals are free to eat other animals, but that we are to live in harmony with them? I wouldn't eat either a dog or a pig, but some people keep pigs as pets, and I understand not wanting to kill an animal for food that I've grown attached to. However, what about eating an animal that has died of natural causes?

Soybean;U quote the Torah/Talmud-which I find ironic. Them books got more 2 say about barbeque/sacrificed animals than a Cajun' cookbook. PAX...marty ..ps... (no dummy,ya can't eat roadkill !)

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

As a matter of interest, do vegans sometimes think "Gosh I'd love a nice juicy steak!", or do they simply not have the craving any more?

 

[Soyeong]

Hi Ilovegod888,

I apologize if what I'm about to say has already been mentioned, as I briefly skimmed through the multitude of responses and wanted to reply quickly. You can eat whatever you like, and if you feel God has led you to become a vegan then more power to you my friend. Let no one judge you for this decision as these things are merely a shadow of things to come.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(KJV)

This subject brings to mind the story of Daniel. Remember in Daniel 1 when himself, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were in Babylon and a portion of the king's meat and drink were given to them daily? Daniel refused, as these were ultimately meat and drink offerings made to idols and Daniel did not want to defile himself by partaking of them. I don't blame him.

He then requested the prince of the eunuchs give him "pulse" (vegetables) to eat for a period of 10 days, at the end of which Daniel and his friends all appeared fairer and fatter in flesh. See below.

Daniel 1:9-16
9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.
10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.
11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,
12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.
13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.
14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.
15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.
16 Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.
(KJV)

We have to be careful discussing these issues, as we can inadvertently cause them to become a stumbling block for our fellow Christians and it's not worth having a brother or sister fall away from Christianity over a carnal matter such as this. But as Christ said...

Matthew 5:37
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
(KJV)

And I've seen many good Christians have their faith rattled over heated debates. It's so not worth it. Paul addressed this same topic actually.

Romans 14:1-8
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
(KJV)

God bless, my friend! I hope this was helpful.

In colossians 2, they were eating and drinking and keeping God's Feasts, New Moon, and sabbath and they were being judged by those who were promoting man-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body (Colossians 2:20-23). Paul was saying not to let anyone keep them from obeying God because they were important teachings about Messiah. It wasn't so much about which diet was more healthy so much as it was about saying that we should obey God rather than men.

Roman 14 is about how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not about whether to obey the commands of God. Meat that had been sacrificed to idols was often later sold on the market, so if someone at a community meal didn't know where it had come from, then they might be of the opinion that only vegetables should be eaten (Verse 2). They were judging those who did eat meat and were in turn being resented (verse 3). Similarly, as a matter of opinion, it had become a common practice to fast twice a week (Luke 18:12) or to commemorate certain days, and it was becoming a matter of dispute (Verse 5-6). Whether man esteems one day over another is very different from whether God esteems one day over another. We aren't to keep the Sabbath and God's Feasts because we esteem those days over others, but because God does and commanded us to keep them. Again, we must obey God rather than men and don't think this has to do with health concerns.

 

[Soyeong]

As a matter of interest, do vegans sometimes think "Gosh I'd love a nice juicy steak!", or do they simply not have the craving any more?

I don't crave it any more, but if it's sitting right in front of me, then that's a different issue. The hardest thing to go without was cheese.

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

When my "fearfully and wonderfully made" inward parts (in particular my stomach) screams out for something, whether it be meat or ice cream or whatever, surely it knows best what the body needs, so is it wise to refuse to give it what it wants?
For example if I cut out meat I'd feel empty and miserable..
"For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well" (Psalm 139:13-14)

PS- to digress slightly, Jesus banished demons into a herd of pigs, but I've always wondered why there were pigs there in the first place, seeing as jews don't eat pork?

 

[Soyeong]

When my "fearfully and wonderfully made" inward parts (in particular my stomach) screams out for something, whether it be meat or ice cream or whatever, surely it knows best what the body needs, so is it wise to refuse to give it what it wants?
For example if I cut out meat I'd feel empty and miserable..
"For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well" (Psalm 139:13-14)

That verse is not saying that we should give in to whatever our body desires.

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

That verse is not saying that we should give in to whatever our body desires.

But surely God gave our stomachs the knowledge to message us telling us what to send down to keep the body ticking over efficiently, so why should we ignore the message?
For example on cycling-camping trips my stomach always screams out for a pint of full-cream milk first thing in the morning, and after I've drank it I feel great and think "Right, that's me set up for another 25 miles", and start pedalling with a smile on my face bigger than a wave on a slop bucket

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

As a matter of interest, do vegans sometimes think "Gosh I'd love a nice juicy steak!", or do they simply not have the craving any more?

I don't. I've been vegan for a long time, and haven't had a craving for meat, in fact it just makes me sad to see, smell, or have to handle it. I guess I'm conditioned to see the brief and often horrid life of the animal when I see it.
But, I really never craved it in the years before either. I ate meat, mostly cooked and seasoned, and find that I can capture the tastes and textures I enjoy with plant foods (I'll stiff a portabella mushroom with olives and pine nuts, and grill it, and it tastes better to me than a hot dog or burger...unfortunately my meat eating friends often agree and eat them all)

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

As to the health issues, it's pretty well documented that a vegan diet can be very healthy, and sufficient for all stages of life and all needs. Some may have to supplement to get B12 and D, but that's true of omnivore diets ss well.
The thing to understand is that there isn't one vegan diet just as there isn't one omnivorous diet. If I say an omnivore diet is unhealthy, it's not a reasonable claim because an omnivore diet could be mainly fast food and donuts, or mainly grilled salmon, wild rice and veggies...or anything in between.
Vegans can vary in their diet almost as much. I know raw, very clean eating vegans, and vegans who eat lots of Oreos. I'm in the middle, I eat a lot of clean, healthy meals, but enjoy dark chocolate, margaritas, and vegan taco night quite a bit. I get my vitamin profile done yearly, and am doing quite well in meeting nutritional requirements.
For me, I don't need to believe a vegan diet is the only healthy one (and I don't think the science is quite there yet). All I need to know is that vegan diet is sufficient so that eating meat is not necessary. I do believe the science is there for this point. For me, eating meat causes suffering, and is not necessary. ..so I choose to avoid causing unnecessary suffering.

Thanks for the advice guys, but the fact is nobody lives forever, so I might just as well carry on eating meat and anything else, and if I make it to my 70's or 80's I'll have had a good innings and enjoyed it all the way by eating stuff I like..

Incidentally I saw this article on the net but I don't know if it's accurate, what do you think-
"Linda McCartney, Davy Jones, Maurice Gibb, Robin Gibb and Donna Summer were all veggies who died young. (The Gibbs both developed colorectal cancer) and now Angelina Jolie has ditched her vegan diet because she's fed up of being ill.
Furthermore a veterinarian wrote in the paper that veggies sometimes bring in their pet dogs and cats with dull coats and listlessness, and it turns out they've been feeding their pets a non-meat diet (pet shops sell it specially), how cruel is that?"

PS- And God himself says it's okay to eat meat, so who are we to disagree?..
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)
"Moses then said to Aaron and his sons, "Cook the meat at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and eat it there with the bread from the basket of ordination offerings, as I commanded." (Leviticus 8:31)
"You may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the Lord your God gives you" (Deuteronomy 12:15)
"He took his yoke of oxen and slaughtered them. He burned the plowing equipment to cook the meat and gave it to the people, and they ate" (1 Kings 19:21)
"On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines" (Isaiah 25:6)

 

[Ilovegod888]

As a matter of interest, do vegans sometimes think "Gosh I'd love a nice juicy steak!", or do they simply not have the craving any more?

I never crave meat or animal products. There is vegan lasagne, pizza, cupcakes. In fact, I am eating mac and cheese (vegan) right now. There are so many substitutes, even meat eaters would like it!!

Check out http://greatist.com/health/21-foolproof-vegan-recipe-substitutions
Thanks for your comment!!

 

[Brookelowe454]

Thanks for the advice guys, but the fact is nobody lives forever, so I might just as well carry on eating meat and anything else, and if I make it to my 70's or 80's I'll have had a good innings and enjoyed it all the way by eating stuff I like..

Incidentally I saw this article on the net but I don't know if it's accurate, what do you think-
"Linda McCartney, Davy Jones, Maurice Gibb, Robin Gibb and Donna Summer were all veggies who died young. (The Gibbs both developed colorectal cancer) and now Angelina Jolie has ditched her vegan diet because she's fed up of being ill.
Furthermore a veterinarian wrote in the paper that veggies sometimes bring in their pet dogs and cats with dull coats and listlessness, and it turns out they've been feeding their pets a non-meat diet (pet shops sell it specially), how cruel is that?"

PS- And God himself says it's okay to eat meat, so who are we to disagree?..
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)
"Moses then said to Aaron and his sons, "Cook the meat at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and eat it there with the bread from the basket of ordination offerings, as I commanded." (Leviticus 8:31)
"You may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the Lord your God gives you" (Deuteronomy 12:15)
"He took his yoke of oxen and slaughtered them. He burned the plowing equipment to cook the meat and gave it to the people, and they ate" (1 Kings 19:21)
"On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines" (Isaiah 25:6)

"but the fact is nobody lives forever, so I might just as well carry on eating meat" I'm sorry, but did you not read anything that I said? Eating meat does not only affect you, you know. It destroys the environment, habitats, and of course, kills innocent beings. I don't meant to sound like a typical vegan here, but just like I said to soyeong, those lives are not yours to take. I count that as a sin, because a sin is any form of suffering, and you cause suffering. If you saw what happened on factory farms, or even small family farms, you would be disgusted. It doesn't matter if you ate meat your whole life, that's not really an excuse. You also say that God says it's okay to eat meat, but I disagree, because the way that we treat animals is revolting. Those are God's creations, and we need to respect them, instead of eating their flesh. I don't read or believe in the bible, so I disagree with all of those quotes you just said. I believe in God and Jesus Christ, however, I don't read the bible because I'm not going to use a book as an excuse to eat an animal's flesh.
"

 

[Ilovegod888]

When my "fearfully and wonderfully made" inward parts (in particular my stomach) screams out for something, whether it be meat or ice cream or whatever, surely it knows best what the body needs, so is it wise to refuse to give it what it wants?
For example if I cut out meat I'd feel empty and miserable..
"For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well" (Psalm 139:13-14)

PS- to digress slightly, Jesus banished demons into a herd of pigs, but I've always wondered why there were pigs there in the first place, seeing as jews don't eat pork?

Vegan Jerky!!

Vegan ice cream. Maybe the next time you are craving meat, try out these yummy substitutes. They taste so real! And they are healthier! (sort of) . Thanks for your comment!

 

[Brookelowe454]

As a matter of interest, do vegans sometimes think "Gosh I'd love a nice juicy steak!", or do they simply not have the craving any more?

I'm being completely honest, I NEVER crave meat, in fact, it's not meat you crave. It's the way you cook it. I cook plant based foods that taste exactly like meat. (I even get a little scared, worrying that it's real) Actually, today I just went to a vegan festival, and tried the best "beef" jerky ever. Couldn't even tell the difference. Same with my mom, she is 50 and she just went vegan. Because of the substitutes, she NEVER craves meat! (She used to be a heavy meat eater)

 

[nebulaJP]

Other than tofu and almond milk, which are minimally processed, I only eat real food: Whole grains, fresh fruit and vegetables and canned beans with no added salt. No oil, no white sugar, no white flower and no processed food. This is called a "whole foods plant based diet" and is featured in the hit documentary film Forks Over Knives. Mostly, I eat fresh fruit and brown rice, with stir fried / browned vegetables and tofu, using vegetable broth in place of oil.

 

[Brookelowe454]

Other than tofu and almond milk, which are minimally processed, I only eat real food: Whole grains, fresh fruit and vegetables and canned beans with no added salt. No oil, no white sugar, no white flower and no processed food. This is called a "whole foods plant based diet" and is featured in the hit documentary film Forks Over Knives. Mostly, I eat fresh fruit and brown rice, with stir fried / browned vegetables and tofu, using vegetable broth in place of oil.

That sounds delicious, I should try that! (Although it might not sound so appetizing to meat eaters) I think require more substitutes, at least at first.

 

[Brookelowe454]

I don't crave it any more, but if it's sitting right in front of me, then that's a different issue. The hardest thing to go without was cheese.

But, you're not really vegan? Plus, cheese is the easiest thing to go without, go to any vegan restaurant or Whole Foods. You'd be astonished.

 

[Soyeong]

But, you're not really vegan? Plus, cheese is the easiest thing to go without, go to any vegan restaurant or Whole Foods. You'd be astonished.

I ate a purely vegan diet for a number of years, but now I eat a vegan diet 6 days out of 7 because I've let it slide for pot lucks. Cheese was the hardest thing for me to go without. I've tried cheese substitutes like nutritional yeast and found them to be disgusting. I think it's better just to be honest with the fact that I was not eating cheese or meat than to pretend I still was through substitutes. Plus soy-based meat substitutes are not particularly healthy either.