Vaccines

[LutheranGuy123]

Poliovirus was isolated in 1909 by Karl Landsteiner (guy who discovered blood types) and Erwin Popper. We've sequenced the genome, made electron micrographs of polio virions, and done a lot of research over exactly what proteins its RNA codes for. There is more doubt about whether or not the flu is a virus. Furthermore, modern scandals over the efficacy of modern vaccines have no bearing on whether or not the vaccines we made sixty years ago were effective.

And yes, some of our medical technology involves fetal stem cells. We don't harvest them repeatedly. We took a few samples years ago and continue to multiply them in cultures. Should we throw them away? It won't un-abort any fetuses or prevent any future abortions. All it will do is make our medicine worse.

 

[Rick Otto]

Poliovirus was isolated in 1909 by Karl Landsteiner (guy who discovered blood types) and Erwin Popper. We've sequenced the genome, made electron micrographs of polio virions, and done a lot of research over exactly what proteins its RNA codes for. There is more doubt about whether or not the flu is a virus. Furthermore, modern scandals over the efficacy of modern vaccines have no bearing on whether or not the vaccines we made sixty years ago were effective.

And yes, some of our medical technology involves fetal stem cells. We don't harvest them repeatedly. We took a few samples years ago and continue to multiply them in cultures. Should we throw them away? It won't un-abort any fetuses or prevent any future abortions. All it will do is make our medicine worse.

Asking if we should throw them away is cute, but it gives me a solid clue re: your admitted disconnect between reported efficacy, and reported history.
Your not addressing any controversy or specific reports to the contrary is no doubt in harmony with your total lack of familiarity with it, and attenuated by your obvious emotional attachment to the security theatre you've been served.
Believe what you want, but try and require it, and you'll eventually meet somebody's 2nd amendment objection.
"Health care reform is a hot topic today, as it has been for much of America's history. Benjamin Rush, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, warned in 1787 that medical freedom needed to be included in the American Constitution. Without this protection, Rush warned that the medical establishment would naturally progress as many of mankind's institutions do into an oppressive dictatorship. His words, echoing from over 200 years ago, ring strikingly true today:

"The Constitution of this Republic should make special provision for medical freedom. To restrict the art of healing to one class will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic. " - any random internet site.

 

[LutheranGuy123]

Asking if we should throw them away is cute, but it gives me a solid clue re: your admitted disconnect between reported efficacy, and reported history.
Your not addressing any controversy or specific reports to the contrary is no doubt in harmony with your total lack of familiarity with it, and attenuated by your obvious emotional attachment to the security theatre you've been served.
Believe what you want, but try and require it, and you'll eventually meet somebody's 2nd amendment objection.
"Health care reform is a hot topic today, as it has been for much of America's history. Benjamin Rush, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, warned in 1787 that medical freedom needed to be included in the American Constitution. Without this protection, Rush warned that the medical establishment would naturally progress as many of mankind's institutions do into an oppressive dictatorship. His words, echoing from over 200 years ago, ring strikingly true today:

"The Constitution of this Republic should make special provision for medical freedom. To restrict the art of healing to one class will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic. " - any random internet site.

Yes, we should listen to the guy who thought that disease came from bad blood, not the people who now know that one person can actually cause another person to get sick.

The first of your post just seems like babble to me. What do you mean by reported history? I have personally tested the effects of vaccinations in mice. I know for a fact that I took random mice from the same cage and injected half with a vaccine, and then injected them all with a virus, and saw the ones that weren't vaccinated die.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No comments on the OP, but interesting video on the Cannibal disease. Not surprising though, seems God has been putting disease out there for a long time to stop what he finds offensive. What is somewhat interesting to me is these diseases never affect everyone who does the offense, as if it's just there to try to wake people up.

 

[visionary]

Cells of aborted babies of 14 weeks gestation in vaccines documented as HEK cells and their manufacturers

MMR II (Merck)

ProQuad (MMR + varicella – Merck)

Varivax (Varicella – Merck)

Pentacel (DTaP Polio + Hib + – Sanofi Pasteur)

Vaqta (Hepatitis-A – Merck)

Havrix (Hepatitis-A – Glaxo SmithKline)

Twinrix (Hepatitis-A and B combo – Glaxo)

Zostavax (Shingles – Merck)

Imovax (Rabia – Sanofi Pasteur)

 

[LutheranGuy123]

No comments on the OP, but interesting video on the Cannibal disease. Not surprising though, seems God has been putting disease out there for a long time to stop what he finds offensive. What is somewhat interesting to me is these diseases never affect everyone who does the offense, as if it's just there to try to wake people up.

It's because you have to eat the brain to get them from cannibalism. Brain proteins have a unique structure and sequence that allow them to be affected by prions. Having not bothered to watch the video, I don't know how much is said. But in a prion disease, the causative agent is actually just a protein with no genetic material. It's folded in such a way that when it comes into contact with the properly-folded version of itself that normally exists in our brain, it causes that protein to misfold into a new prion. We've only seen brain prions.

This is also the cause of mad cow, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, scrapie (in sheep), and fatal familial insomnia. Honestly, there are many, many ways to get these diseases that don't involve cannibalism, including a random mutation (like what causes cancer), so I find it rather insulting that you would suggest that such diseases are a punishment from God. Sounds a lot like how we said AIDS was sent to punish the gays. It led to a lot of people believing that only certain forms of intercourse (you know what I mean, not sure if I'm allowed to say it here) or only gay sex could cause AIDS.

 

[Kenny'sID]

so I find it rather insulting that you would suggest that such diseases are a punishment from God.

I'd say more a deterrent, but if not stopped I suppose one could then consider it a punishment, or a way to wipe out those that do it.

I didn't pick up on exactly why you find it insulting, unless you're a cannibal.

 

[LutheranGuy123]

I'd say more a deterrent, but if not stopped I suppose one could then consider it a punishment, or a way to wipe out those that do it.

I didn't pick up on exactly why you find it insulting, unless you're a cannibal.

Well you can get the diseases from simply eating tainted meat. We think a form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob comes from eating tainted beef. Kuru can come from a simple random mutation in a brain cell. You can get any form of prion disease (except scrapie because I think that's only in sheep) without eating a person.

 

[Rick Otto]

Yes, we should listen to the guy who thought that disease came from bad blood, not the people who now know that one person can actually cause another person to get sick.

The first of your post just seems like babble to me. What do you mean by reported history? I have personally tested the effects of vaccinations in mice. I know for a fact that I took random mice from the same cage and injected half with a vaccine, and then injected them all with a virus, and saw the ones that weren't vaccinated die.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain that Not all "anti" vaccine people are "anti-vaccine" per se.

By "reported history" (not actual history), I mean the manipulated information that becomes public opinion.
"Before the Salk vaccine became available, if you were admitted to the hospital any doctor could diagnose you with polio based on two physical examinations within 24 hours, to check for paralysis in one or more muscle groups. We now know that a number of viruses can cause paralysis, but back then, all instances were thought to be due to polio virus. When the polio vaccine was developed, a problem emerged. Swedish scientists were trying to tell the US scientists that formaldehyde inactivation was not going to work as planned.

Their warning, however, fell on deaf ears. This was unfortunate, as they turned out to be correct. Live poliovirus, which was put in an injectable vaccine, would appear to be inactivated right after it was made, but sometimes it would "resurrect" in the vial... In essence, the formaldehyde did not kill off all the polioviruses in these vaccines, which led to live polio viruses being injected. As a result, more people developed paralysis from the vaccine in 1955 than would have developed it from a wild, normal natural poliovirus.

Something had to be done to make it appear as though the vaccine was working. So what they did was change the diagnostic criteria for polio. Sadly this is a very common practice in medicine. When the observations don't fit your expectations, change or rig the system so that they do. With polio, the original criteria was two examinations within 24 hours. This was changed to two examinations within 60 days. This was helpful in cooking the books, because within 60 days, most people recover from their bout with poliomyelitis."

Check this out, please:
Forgotten History of Vaccinations You Need to Be Aware Of

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well you can get the diseases from simply eating tainted meat. We think a form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob comes from eating tainted beef. Kuru can come from a simple random mutation in a brain cell. You can get any form of prion disease (except scrapie because I think that's only in sheep) without eating a person.

And it's a supposed fact, it can happen from eating brains of a human being. Is that how it was born, IDK? but I will say, science is in the hands of people and though your claims may be factual for what they were worth, and as far as the science has gone in this, men can miss anything in determining anything. Science is only a tool.

I think you're trying to make a point without really saying what the point is because, and I mean no disrespect, you don't really have a good point.

What if it can be caught in other ways? So can AIDS (that you brought up BTW). Take a missile strike for instance that is designed to take out bad people, while all too often, kids/grand kids get taken out along with them....sometimes the innocent suffer. Does anyone think the lambs or whatever/or even Christ that all suffered for the atonement of sin were not innocent? It's been a part of how God makes his point for a long time.

 

[LutheranGuy123]

And it's a supposed fact, it can happen from eating brains of a human being. Is that how it was born, IDK? but I will say, science is in the hands of people and though your claims may be factual for what they were worth, and as far as the science has gone in this, men can miss anything in determining anything. Science is only a tool.

I think you're trying to make a point without really saying what the point is because, and I mean no disrespect, you don't really have a good point.

What if it can be caught in other ways? So can AIDS (that you brought up BTW). Take a missile strike for instance that is designed to take out bad people, while all too often, kids/grand kids get taken out along with them....sometimes the innocent suffer. Does anyone think the lambs or whatever/or even Christ that all suffered for the atonement of sin were not innocent? It's been a part of how God makes his point for a long time.

In the Bible, God has historically spared the innocent from collateral damage. He sent angels to pull Lot's family from Sodom, he spared the Jewish households from the plagues, etc.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain that Not all "anti" vaccine people are "anti-vaccine" per se.

By "reported history" (not actual history), I mean the manipulated information that becomes public opinion.
"Before the Salk vaccine became available, if you were admitted to the hospital any doctor could diagnose you with polio based on two physical examinations within 24 hours, to check for paralysis in one or more muscle groups. We now know that a number of viruses can cause paralysis, but back then, all instances were thought to be due to polio virus. When the polio vaccine was developed, a problem emerged. Swedish scientists were trying to tell the US scientists that formaldehyde inactivation was not going to work as planned.

Their warning, however, fell on deaf ears. This was unfortunate, as they turned out to be correct. Live poliovirus, which was put in an injectable vaccine, would appear to be inactivated right after it was made, but sometimes it would "resurrect" in the vial... In essence, the formaldehyde did not kill off all the polioviruses in these vaccines, which led to live polio viruses being injected. As a result, more people developed paralysis from the vaccine in 1955 than would have developed it from a wild, normal natural poliovirus.

Something had to be done to make it appear as though the vaccine was working. So what they did was change the diagnostic criteria for polio. Sadly this is a very common practice in medicine. When the observations don't fit your expectations, change or rig the system so that they do. With polio, the original criteria was two examinations within 24 hours. This was changed to two examinations within 60 days. This was helpful in cooking the books, because within 60 days, most people recover from their bout with poliomyelitis."

Check this out, please:
Forgotten History of Vaccinations You Need to Be Aware Of

This is false but partially based in truth. It wasn't polio that was recombining to become infectious (it can't just ignore the formalin), it was SV40, a virus found in the rhesus monkeys that were harvested for the vaccine. There were concerns that this might cause cancer but it hasn't been proven.

 

[Kenny'sID]

In the Bible, God has historically spared the innocent from collateral damage. He sent angels to pull Lot's family from Sodom, he spared the Jewish households from the plagues, etc.

No argument there, for whatever that is worth.

 

[Rick Otto]

In the Bible, God has historically spared the innocent from collateral damage. He sent angels to pull Lot's family from Sodom, he spared the Jewish households from the plagues, etc.



This is false but partially based in truth. It wasn't polio that was recombining to become infectious (it can't just ignore the formalin), it was SV40, a virus found in the rhesus monkeys that were harvested for the vaccine. There were concerns that this might cause cancer but it hasn't been proven.

I want to believe you.
Tell me why I should.

 

[LutheranGuy123]

I want to believe you.
Tell me why I should.

I mean your options are believe me or declare that there's a global conspiracy involving organizations from multiple governments to donate vaccines to Africa that don't work and to donate the man-hours needed to administer them. Because reasons?

 

[Rick Otto]

I mean your options are believe me or declare that there's a global conspiracy involving organizations from multiple governments to donate vaccines to Africa that don't work and to donate the man-hours needed to administer them. Because reasons?

Do you even realize what forum your in?
Have you ever heard the words "deep state", or eugenics?
Sleepwalking is also dangerous.
You're Lutheran... is satan/Lucifer just a lone nut job?
Do he and his angels never partner up with human beings?
How do you explain your own disconnect with these topics?

 

[LutheranGuy123]

Do you even realize what forum your in?
Have you ever heard the words "deep state", or eugenics?
Sleepwalking is also dangerous.
You're Lutheran... is satan/Lucifer just a lone nut job?
Do he and his angels never partner up with human beings?
How do you explain your own disconnect with these topics?

I mean you can believe in a conspiracy within reason. US involvement with 9/11? Sure. Multiple shooters for Kennedy? Why not. MASS GLOBAL CONSPIRACY WITH NO APPARENT BENEFACTOR? Yeah no.

 

[Joshua_5]

Who would've thought.

Sounds like the mind control redefinition of "conspiracy" to mean "crackpot" was a raging success.



OK, so just admit you don't want to read any of the articles about how the media and doctors fudged the data. I get that. Science is god nowadays, it's just a fact.

Amazing. Some adherents of the vaccination cult are more loyal to their scientists than some Christian groups to the bible. Never doubt the power of propaganda over the weak-minded.

 

[Joshua_5]

I mean your options are believe me or declare that there's a global conspiracy involving organizations from multiple governments to donate vaccines to Africa that don't work and to donate the man-hours needed to administer them. Because reasons?

Population control? (Vaccines kill, damage reproductive organs, and reduce likelihood of children in cases of autism or similar). Money? (Vaccines cause disease, and treatments generate profit). Power? (Vaccines lower IQ, the diseases they cause impoverish the afflicted, and debtors are slaves to creditors).

 

[Rick Otto]

Population control? (Vaccines kill, damage reproductive organs, and reduce likelihood of children in cases of autism or similar). Money? (Vaccines cause disease, and treatments generate profit). Power? (Vaccines lower IQ, the diseases they cause impoverish the afflicted, and debtors are slaves to creditors).

Thank you. The math is pretty simple to me, but the disconnect was in believing that people could be so evil.
"Mass conspiracy" (the malformed idea) is a product of ignoring compartmentalization, sharing end game intent only on a need-to-know basis, and even then employing creative editing so everything is done "for safety's sake".

 

[Ygrene Imref]

It takes the five stages of grief to deal with information that is grossly and foundationally harmful in a significant way. The mere mention of something that suggests the status quo is wrong will cause this multi-stepped reaction.

It happened to me; I spent some time on the denial, and bargaining step. The part I feel worst about is the way I talked about the people who I considered crazy at the time, only to find out they were on to something a decade later...

I often wonder where *those* "crazy" people are now... are they already underground while we are juggling the mechanics of the POSSIBILITY of a conspiracy - let alone the reality of it?