Vaccinated and Think You're Safe?

[Crwth]

Fact check: Reports of adverse effects in US database aren’t confirmed to be linked to vaccination

"VERDICT
Partly false. In the US, the VAERS collects reports of adverse effects in patients following vaccination but it does not show whether those adverse effects were caused by a vaccine. The death of a one-year-old included in the data could not have been caused by a vaccine for COVID-19, as the child had not received one.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team."

"Partly false."

First off, I was quite explicit in noting the data was for ALL VACCINES. The only correlation between the data and Covid that might be inferred is the relative change in the data trend from the previous 31 years. Period.

Second, despite the caveat, it's hard to dismiss the fact that this is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). True, some of the data may be as the caveat suggests, non-vaccine-caused deaths. My question to that however is, if they knew the death was not vaccine-related, then why did they allow the data in the database in the first place?

Moreover, how many of the data apply? 15? 150? 1500? Point is, they don't know. They're speculating themselves, CYA, probably because of how politicized this has become (noting this hasn't been an issue with the database for the 31 years prior)

That said, the trend, nay, the huge spike in 2021 data cannot be merely dismissed by conjuring up the caveat or citing the example of a 1-year-old baby.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have been doing this since the beginning of last year and not just on here, but at work, on other social media sites. I'm just done.

Let them be self-destructive.

Some scriptures continue to come to mind, (Matthew 24:12-13 & Galatians 6:9) but in short "let them destroy themselves" is the exhaustion talking. God took a break so we would, it's fine to give it a rest.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"Partly false."

First off, I was quite explicit in noting the data was for ALL VACCINES. The only correlation between the data and Covid that might be inferred is the relative change in the data trend from the previous 31 years. Period.

Second, despite the caveat, it's hard to dismiss the fact that this is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). True, some of the data may be as the caveat suggests, non-vaccine-caused deaths. My question to that however is, if they knew the death was not vaccine-related, then why did they allow the data in the database in the first place?

Moreover, how many of the data apply? 15? 150? 1500? Point is, they don't know. They're speculating themselves, CYA, probably because of how politicized this has become (noting this hasn't been an issue with the database for the 31 years prior)

That said, the trend, nay, the huge spike in 2021 data cannot be merely dismissed by conjuring up the caveat or citing the example of a 1-year-old baby.

The point is, there is no way of knowing the death is because of the vaccine, just that a death occurred after a vaccine.

The number isn't important, people report it because it's on their mind, so there will be way more reports this year than any other just because people know to do it.

 

[Crwth]

If people only knew how time consuming and fact-checked a VAERS report is, they would understand that this is very sobering indeed.

You can't just check a few boxes and submit, and it appears live.

Moreover, the sheer uptick in volume of reports is itself telling.

To naysay this on the basis of "anyone can do it" not only dismisses the difficulty in making a report, but is actually asserting some sort of conspiracy to do so; and without some manner of evidence to prove such a conspiracy, such objections are not credible on their face.

 

[Crwth]

The point is, there is no way of knowing the death is because of the vaccine, just that a death occurred after a vaccine.

Already acknowledged. But that does not mean ALL reported deaths did not occur because of a vaccine. Nor does is necessarily negate the importance of the dataset as a whole. Many murderers, for example, are convicted without the evidence of a body. Circumstantial evidence can be overwhelming. And in this case, the circumstantial evidence IS overwhelming - imho.

The number isn't important, people report it because it's on their mind, so there will be way more reports this year than any other just because people know to do it.

Actually, the number IS important. When you've been collecting data for 31 years and then all of a sudden you see a 10 fold increase in your data, that's significant.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

All these puppets of Russian Intelligence trying to weaken the US by downplaying the seriousness of a real virus, and then downplaying the effectiveness of a vaccine.

You are not serious, are you?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Actually, the number IS important. When you've been collecting data for 31 years and then all of a sudden you see a 10 fold increase in your data, that's significant.

It's kind of like when one president's expenditures are compared to one another without a glance at what a dollar is worth during each era. i.e. the data is based on a faulty premise.

In this case, because Covid is a big deal, more people are reporting. Prior to Covid, no one cared enough to report stuff like this. Even cold and flu were used as synonymous terms and who ever got a vaccine for it anyway?

This is why the jump in numbers is irrelevant, because those factors didn't exist in previous years.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You are not serious, are you?

Half serious, puppets tend to not know they're being manipulated. However, since Trump, the downward spiral has been sharper than before.

 

[Crwth]

...and here I was thinking something similar about...

 

[Crwth]

It's kind of like when one president's expenditures are compared to one another without a glance at what a dollar is worth during each era. i.e. the data is based on a faulty premise.

In this case, because Covid is a big deal, more people are reporting. Prior to Covid, no one cared enough to report stuff like this. Even cold and flu were used as synonymous terms and who ever got a vaccine for it anyway?

This is why the jump in numbers is irrelevant, because those factors didn't exist in previous years.

Relevance here is a matter of degree. I get the cold/flu example, I do. And you're probably right, not as many people took colds and flus as seriously as they're taking this virus. That said, you still have the issue of 30 years of consistent data followed by a significantly huge uptick in data. Sure, you can attribute some to the pandemic, and probably rightly so. However, I still think it's a huge stretch to summarily dismiss the data on that basis alone.

 

[Crwth]

...gotta go mow the lawn.

 

[ReesePiece23]

I personally think it's much easier to just switch the television/radio/news feed off and pursue a new hobby or two.

Have a vaccine, don't have a vaccine. Either way, the sun will still rise everyday and the world will keep on turning. It's your time to utilise how you see fit.

From my perspective, it's not March 2020 anymore. Most of us have moved on.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I'm getting tired of all the fear-mongering threads about so-and-so wishing they'd got the vaccine but didn't and suffered.... however. The propaganda is getting very old. I don't know if it's because of paranoia or what, but it's becoming quite tiresome and I for one wishes it would stop.

What about those who GOT the vaccine and regretted it?

I'm going through the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System - hhs.gov) data on my own right now and what I'm finding is sobering. Mind you, this is ALL vaccine data.

Vaccine (ANY vaccine) deaths:
1990 - 76
...
1993 - 219
...
2000 - 141
...
2018 - 165
2019 - 183
2020 - 167
The average number of deaths from 1990 to 2020 is about 150 +/- but very consistent, were one to graph it.

Here's the 2021 data (through just the first 5 months of this year - May, 2021)
2021 - 5,909 (notwithstanding 7 month's of data yet to be reported and retrieved)

Mind you, these are just the reported DEATH statistics - and they apply to ALL VACCINES. The datasets for the years 1990 to 2020 vary roughly in size from about 12,000 (1990) to 50,000 (2020) and include not only deaths, but all other adverse vaccine events (see website for a PDF explaining the data).

The dataset of reported adverse events for the first 5 months of 2021 is 437,298 reports.

Extrapolating to the end of 2021:
437,298 * 12/5 = 1,049,515 probable adverse events
5,909 * 12/5 = 14,182 probable deaths due to adverse vaccine events

To put these numbers in perspective, the number of probable deaths this year is nearly 100 times that of the average for the previous 30 years.
And there have already (as of May) been over 1,000 more deaths than all deaths in the 30 years prior to this year.

Again, I find this data very sobering.

The Opening Post is disingenuous.
One, on one hand, it is presented as about the Covid vaccine but the numbers are off all vaccines in that time.

Two, and most inportant, the data on VAERS is being misused or misunderstood. If one is going to use VAERS, then it would be wise to read the Data Use Guide first.
That guide is here:
https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERSDataUseGuide_November2020.pdf

It includes this and I am going to make some parts red and or bold:

3. VAERS Data Should be Interpreted with Caution
• VAERS data are from a passive surveillance system and represent unverified reports of health events that occur after vaccination. Such data are subject to limitations of under-reporting, simultaneous administration of multiple vaccine antigens, reporting bias, and lack of incidence rates in unvaccinated comparison groups.
• When reporting and evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause and effect relationship has been established. The event may have been related to an underlying disease or condition, to medications being taken concurrently, or may have occurred by chance.

​

That means that just because the symptom or death occurred, it is not necessarily due to the vaccine at all. Anyone can report X happened - and cause and effect is not determined in regards to VAERS data.

Cause and effect is determined after investigation.

The vaccine has been shown to greatly help those who got it. They may be exposed afterward and carry the germs for a time, but most all will not have severe infections as to require hospitalization. No vaccine is 100% effective and also, some will have allergic responses.

For some clarity, see:
How many people have died from the vaccine in the U.S.? - COVID-101

Between December 2020 and July 19th, 2021, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018% of doses) among people who got a vaccine, but this does not mean the vaccine caused these deaths. Doctors and safety monitors carefully review the details of each case to see if it might be linked to the vaccine. There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine. Since we now know how to correctly treat people who develop these blood clots, future deaths related to this very rare side effect can be prevented.

After careful review of the additional data, doctors have decided that there is no evidence at all that the vaccines contributed to the other patient deaths. Nonetheless, the CDC and FDA will continue to investigate every single report of death (and other adverse events) reported to VAERS.​

My advice is to research in actual academic and official sites, find out how to interpret the data (ad in the Data User Guide) , and refrain from conspiracy sites, or listening to an armchair 'expert's' interpretation.

​

 

[Bobber]

Could just be people who are against the vaccine reporting in there.

Could be? So you're acknowledging you don't know that for sure.

I am not saying that deaths don't happen, but VAERS is being used by people as a tool who have something against the vaccine to try and get people not to be vaccinated.

No body could ever believe there wouldn't be some people like that. But fact is you have no evidence about the measure and degree that might be taking place. You have to admit there's a lot of people reporting things.

 

[rturner76]

Why get the vaccine then?

To avoid dying from COVID. That's why I got it and I have fortunately avoided death from COVID. Actually so has everyone that I know had a vaccination. The only people dying are non vaxers.

 

[Lost4words]

To avoid dying from COVID. That's why I got it and I have fortunately avoided death from COVID. Actually so has everyone that I know had a vaccination. The only people dying are non vaxers.

But, covid is 99% survivable without a vaccine. Its the weak, frail, old etc that have problems when it comes to covid.

 

[renniks]

Since the data actually show that far more people are dying from the virus than the vaccine, and still there are people who arguing against the vaccine, it seems that someone is projecting here.

Those aren't the only factors to consider. We don't even know the long-term side effects of the vax yet.

 

[The Barbarian]

Those aren't the only factors to consider. We don't even know the long-term side effects of the vax yet.

Seeing as there haven't been any such things from similar vaccines what makes you think that the "long-term effects" even exist?

On the other hand it's well-documented that even mild cases of COVID-19 often have serious long-term effects. It seems to me completely unhinged to expose one's self to known hazards to avoid imaginary hazards for which there is no evidence at all.

Can you name even one vaccine approved for use, that has harmful "long-term effects?"

 

[FreeinChrist]

But, covid is 99% survivable without a vaccine. Its the weak, frail, old etc that have problems when it comes to covid.

But 615,000 in the US did not survive, and over 4.29 million world wide did not survive. Many who survived had to have lung transplants, or a liver transplant, are on oxygen all the time after 'recovering', lost limbs, have brain fog and more. The morbidity is not minor here.

 

[The Barbarian]

But, covid is 99% survivable without a vaccine. Its the weak, frail, old etc that have problems when it comes to covid.

I have bad news for you...

Dr. Michael Bolding told CNN this is no longer a disease of the elderly and frail.

“You can’t be too healthy for this virus,” he said. “We are seeing people that crossfit on Tuesday and are on a ventilator on Friday. I can’t get the word out enough of what we’re seeing back here in these units.”

Dr. Bolding wants everyone to remember that the vaccine doesn’t work once you’re infected.

“I see someone daily for the last three weeks that is possibly dying, certainly very sick, that asks if they can get their vaccine,” he told CNN. “ And it is heartbreaking to tell them that that time has passed. That was five to six weeks ago to prevent this.”
A doctor's warning about COVID: The delta variant is killing young and healthy people