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Vaccinate?

Discussion in 'General Physical Health' started by Briseis, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran

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    You think i'm stupid right. That's your answer? If your going to make such a empty comment better you don't comment at all.
     
  2. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    1. The Catholic group that I am quoting are neither anti-vaccine, nor anti-medicine, in general. They are just calling out the ethics on some of them.
    2. How is "Young Earth Creationism, et al." a problem at Christian Forums? Christianity is redemption from the effects of the Original Sin, a literal event, by the literal first couple. Thus, Christianity and a literal reading of Genesis are inseparable.
     
  3. Two Scoops

    Two Scoops Junior Member

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    I get a lot of info from Andrew Hall Cutler and Boyd Haley. Andrew Cutler has helped hundreds of people reverse the effects of mercury toxicity, I know because I am one who has been helped.

    Did God create us so messed up that we need 26 plus vaccines and that we need them the rest of our lives? Are we that fearful, that we need to say your kids cannot play with my kids because they haven't been vaccinated? I think more people get vaccinated out of fear than anything else.

    Trust in the Lord with ALL heart and lean not unto your own understanding. Acknowledge Him and He will direct your steps. Ask Him for wisdom, and He will give it you. We do not walk by sight, but by faith. We trust in the unseen. We take off the carnal mind and pit on the spiritual mind and it gives us life and peace.
     
  4. OGM

    OGM Newbie

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    Vaccines are one of the top inventions of all time. I would hate to see what history would have been like without vaccines for polio, smallpox, whooping cough...etc.
     
  5. bill5

    bill5 Well-Known Member

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    ? No it's not. Where on Earth did you get that? PS, Mercola is a bigger quack than the AFLAC mascot. Quoting his links doesn't exactly lend credibility to any medical discussion. Also that link to "catholicexchange.com" also isn't lending any credence, since they're spreading blatant lies. And oh btw, Dr Deisher has been employed at numerous times by (gasp) BIG PHARMACIES. I think by the standards of most "alternative medicine" people, that makes her some kind of demon :doh:

    Thx for being honest about that.

    Really? Please, point us to some. From a credible source, I mean; Mercola doesn't qualify.
     
  6. bill5

    bill5 Well-Known Member

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    That's literally ridiculous. That viewpoint is a Fundamentalist one, and FYI only a small % of Christians are Fundamentalists. So please, spare us the "there's my church's viewpoint and the wrong one" silliness.


    Hate to tell you this, but it was a valid answer. Your comment he replied to was the empty one, so you might take a look in the mirror. In fact it was downright ridiculous; you imply something is automatically and inherently harmful but don't back it up with anything like, say, facts. He suggested you do a little research on the things you mentioned and actually LEARN about them and the ways they are used. Sounds like good advice to me, but I think we all know you aren't likely to take it, preferring to remain clouded in ignorance. That doesn't mean you're stupid per se, just willfully ignorant. Shame.


    Yep. God didn't make us perfect, FYI. Far from it.

    You're right. And if you review the diseases they prevent and the widespread misery/death they can and/or have caused, it's a very wise and healthy fear to have. But hey, if you want to play Russian Roulette, by all means, go for it.
     
  7. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My doctor is into evidence-based medicine. Before suggesting anything, she'll tell me whether there's good evidence that it has a benefit. I have had a couple of immunizations in the last couple of years. There have also been things I've not done because there's no evidence that they actually produce a measurable benefit.

    It's not practical for me to keep up with the medical literature. So I pick a doctor who does so, and does her best to give objective advice. I think this is how the system is supposed to work.
     
  8. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    I am disabled because of vaccines. So its not made up that vaccines are perfect. And no what I have was not in my family history. Fact is there are problems often with vaccines. Sure for the most part no one gets hurt by them. But some do! I realize vaccines has stopped the spread of many disease so yes they are useful. But we must not assume they NEVER hurt, disable or kill anyone.
     
  9. OGM

    OGM Newbie

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    Any vaccine can hurt under the right circumstances. For example when I was a kid I received a weakened strain of the polio vaccine. Back then it was estimated the there was a 1 in 6,000,000 chance of me getting full blown polio. Based on that...I am glad I received the shot.

    I travel internationally on airliners ALOT. Every year I receive a flu shot. Does that carry risks, of course. Based on present data. I will continue to receive flu shots every year. Even though I know they are not 100% effective. All children in my family have been fully inoculated.

    I wear seat belts and have a car that has airbags. I know there is an inherent risk in that. But I will continue to use seat belts because
    of the risk comparison I perform. Also all children in my vehicle below a certain weight, have a car seat.

    Once again I would say that vaccines rate in the top five of inventions in humankind. Childhood mortality rates are much higher years ago. We forget the toll that now virtually extinct diseases had on families.

    All this reminds me, I have to get a flu shot this weekend!
     
  10. 1Feather

    1Feather Active Member

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    After baby is 18 months of age, sure.
    That way their immune system is fully developed and they'll be able to better handle the shots.
    Don't get a series all at once. Like one stop shoting.
    Break it up so that your baby isn't flushed full of the vaccine.

    And if you can, breastfeed. One of the best insurances to make baby healthy is breast milk.

     
  11. Senator Cheese

    Senator Cheese Master of Cheese

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    To be frank, I am very appalled and sickened by some of the comments here. I know kids and young adults who have to take immunosuppressants due to autoimmune diseases - their life depends on herd immunization because they themselves often cannot be vaccinated and are thus prone to catch common childhood diseases (measles, chickenpox) as adults.

    So, all fundamentalism aside, it isn't just about "you" and "your concerns", but also about the safety of your fellow human beings.

    Yes, God is powerful and yes, God has given us the (by far) most sophisticated vessels for our souls, but even our bodies are not perfect - whether this is intended or the result of evil doesn't matter. There are viruses, bacteria, degenerative processes, dysfunctions, malignant growth and all types of things that can go awry in us. Do you honestly believe that God would not want us to take the necessary precautions? Should we dismantle our seat belts and throw away the air bag?

    Vaccinations are essential, especially considering the population density and fast modes of transportation. And they are harmless in terms of risk.

    Alot of anecdotal evidence exists for alleged vaccination damages, but the fact is that a causative relationship is only proven in very few cases. Just like some attribute "healing" to homeopathic remedies even though it's merely coincidental, many attribute ilnesses to vaccines although no causative relationship is plausible.

    Don't get me wrong: risks do exist, but they are miniscule in comparism to the risk of the disease. Even "harmless" childhood ilnesses sometimes carry a high risk of serious complications - there's a progressive inflammation of the brain called Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis (SSPE) which (according to newest studies) affects 1:10.000 of all measles patients in their later life. It has a 100% fatality rate. Keep that in mind when making a decision.

    I don't think God gives us reasoning and a survival instinct and asks us not to use it. If one were to follow that logic, we might as well throw ourselves off a cliff and demand to be saved by angels.
     
  12. OGM

    OGM Newbie

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    Good point about herd immunization.
     
  13. Two Scoops

    Two Scoops Junior Member

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    Side Effects listed on Tripedia Diptheria vaccine.

    http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm101580.pdf

    "Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia (diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis vaccine) vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting."
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  14. Senator Cheese

    Senator Cheese Master of Cheese

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    Adverse effects of Aspirin: Internal Hemorrhage, bronchial Asthma, Reye Syndrome, Sudden Infant Death, Intracranial Hemorrhage, Gastric Ulcers, Acute Renal Failure, Nausea, Gastritis, Vertigo, Tinnitus, Dizziness.... and these are just off the top of my head.

    Adverse effects of sugar: Psychiatric Disorders, Adrenomedullar Surpression, Mineral Deficiency, Neuroglycopenia, premature aging, heart disease, type two diabetes, adipocyte hypertrophia, cataract, emphysema, pancreatic damage, kidney stones, inflammation.


    What I'm trying to say is that any substance will have adverse effects on the human body. There's a latin saying "Dosis facit venenum", which holds a lot of truth: any substance, given in inadequate amounts, will be toxic.

    Tripedia is not used in Germany - I have therefore looked up the generic drug and checked up on the frequency of the adverse effects that you mentioned. I can only name the frequency for the adverse effects that are listed, that is to say the effects for which a definite causative role has been identified:

    A) Anaphylactic Reactions: Frequency <0.01% (less than 1:10000)
    B) Cellulitis (local, harmless inflammation): >10% (more than 1:10)
    C) Convulsions, Neuropathy, Grand-Mal, Somnolence, Apnea: <0.01% (less than 1:10000)
    D) Thrombocytopenia (only observed for a short duration): <0.01% (less than 1:10000)
    E) Hypotonia (low grade): <0.1% (less than 1:1000)

    Keep in mind that the majority of these reactions are both very rare and passager. Furthermore, they can be quickly treated (Anaphylaxia with antihistaminergic drugs, epinephrin, etc.; Convulsions rarely need to be treated but can be treated with benzodiazepines; Hypotonia can be treated with sympathomimetics).

    The association of SIDS with the named vaccine is something that I find hard to believe - for one, establishing a causative role is very difficult to do and requires a huge study population. Also, the side effect is not listed in the official guidelines, at least not for the generic.
     
  15. loveofourlord

    loveofourlord Newbie

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    This is complete ignorance, spreading out the vaccines puts your child at severe risks, as the vacinations are based around the times that a child begins to get a serious risk of these diseases and spreading them out will increase chances of getting them and make the vaccine moot. The amount of dead viruses and such in the vaccine, the amount of chemicles and stuff in the vaccine, is far less then what the child will get in a days worth of living from the enivorment, it's hogwash to think the tiny amount from the vaccine is anything compared to what it gets from it's food, dirt and other things.
     
  16. loveofourlord

    loveofourlord Newbie

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    Also on the topic of chemicles, learn something called dosage, and such. The amount in all the vaccines combined of all these chemicles is LESS then what a child gets from his food in two days, or what their own body produces in a day. Most things even deadly things require a certain amount in the body to have any effect, and the amount in the body is far FAR less then the amount to have any actual effect.

    On mercury also, there are two kinds, the more dangerous one that sits in the body forever, and the kind that was in vaccines, that the body removes in a few days and is safe in doses far exceeding all the vaccines combined, learn a thing or two, edcuate yourself or risk sounding like idiots.
     
  17. Stratiotes

    Stratiotes Regular Member

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    I agree with those who have mentioned herd immunity. People get offended when others try to tell them what to do with their own children, but imagine if you were the one with the immunosupressed child. In fact, if you refuse vaccines, you should be thanking the parents who do vaccinate. If everyone agreed with you, we'd be seeing kids die daily of completely preventable diseases.

    After having our child, my wife and I were worried about the safety of vaccines--especially getting them all at once. But both being nurses, we've seen the consequences of some of these illnesses that vaccines protect children from. I did quite a bit of research on the subject and found that there was truly no good evidence that these vaccines aren't safe. Of course, I found many websites with anecdotal reports of kids becoming autistic or getting very sick after vaccines, but honestly, you can search for pretty much anything and find similar stories. Aspartame, gluten, dairy, vaccines, cell phones, sulfates in shampoo, flouride in our water supply, GMOs, MSG... and the list goes on and on.

    We decided to get the vaccines and we also got them all at once. It barely had any effect at all on our child. On another note, he also was mostly formula fed despite my wife's best breastfeeding efforts--something that a lot of the anti-vaccine group equally despises. Guess what? At 10 months old, our son has had no ear infections, no colds, and even managed to not catch stuff my wife and I have come down with.

    The reality is, like others have said, we are exposed to the scary chemicals that people fear in vaccines and many foods daily in other ways. For example, people are scared of diet soda because aspartame breaks down into methanol in our bodies but they aren't afraid of orange juice which has many times the amount of methanol when it is broken down. People are just being unreasonable in my opinion.
     
  18. OGM

    OGM Newbie

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    I agree 100% with that.
     
  19. OGM

    OGM Newbie

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    You are making too much sense. They rather simply hear, "vaccines are bad and gives children autism." I still find sites saying all of that nonsense. I have the feeling Jonas Salk and Edward Jenner are spinning around in their graves now.
     
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