US military force at 80-year low, Pentagon urges ‘national call to service’

[iluvatar5150]

The propensity to enlist in military service is largely class-based. The Democratic Party has very greatly alienated the working-class white male representing the bulk of young males who would (or whose adult male relatives would encourage them to) join the military, and that's been over the course of the last couple of Democratic administrations. Even young black males are being alienated by the Democratic Party, which is a phenomenon running under the radar of most people.

Even supposing that that’s true (I have some issues with it, but that’s probably for another thread), how does Democrats’ alienating potential enlistees map onto those people not enlisting? Why would they associate Dems with the military when Dems have typically not been the ones associated with the military? They just don’t want to enlist under a Dem CIC?

 

[DaisyDay]

What is significant to me is that both black officers (as college graduates) and black enlisted (as non-college graduates) are both overrepresented in the military compared to their percentages of the civilian population. That means other current recruiting issues notwithstanding, blacks are still seeing better opportunities in the military than whites are...which has been the case since the Civil War.

The cite I had shown (linkie) put Black officers at 11% of all officers but 12% of the general population as of 2020. There is another category that I'm totally ignorant of: warrant officers. I don't know what that is but it was listed separately from plain "officers" and "enlisted men". 62% of warrant officers are White and 16% Black - both percentages higher than in the general population.

Can you fill me in on what warrant officers are? TIA

 

[RDKirk]

The cite I had shown ( linkie) put Black officers at 11% of all officers but 12% of the general population as of 2020. There is another category that I'm totally ignorant of: warrant officers. I don't know what that is but it was listed separately from plain "officers" and "enlisted men". 62% of warrant officers are White and 16% Black - both percentages higher than in the general population.Can you fill me in on what warrant officers are? TIA

The Army and Navy have a class in the rank structure called "warrant officers" who are between the enlisted and the officer classes. Warrant officers are considered high-level technicians in their specialties. Usually, they were ambitious mid-level enlisted persons who fulfilled certain (generally quite demanding) technical qualifications and applied to be warrants. Remember that Congress limits the number of officer commissions available to the military. The warrant officer system is a way to give an officer-like status and authority to a very high-level technician without breaching the Congressional limits.

Within the rank structure, a second lieutenant (Army) or ensign (Navy) outranks the highest-level warrant officer, but second lieutenants learn quickly not to push their rank with warrant officers. Generally, warrant officers run their own show in some way. For instance, in the Army helicopter pilots are generally warrant officers, so on their own choppers, they're in command of the helicopter operations regardless who's on board. In Star Trek, Miles O'Brien is a chief warrant officer.

 

[Ana the Ist]

"Do." Matter in what way, to whom and for what purpose?

In any way, to any one, for the purpose of some people's efforts for "diversity".

Does it matter to you that I already said that "Surely in some way facts matter"?

No...I took that for the snarky comment it was.

Since half the stats I posted were from 2011 and half (not literally) were from 2020-2022, why would you conclude that only today matters?

Because your argument against past lack of diversity in the military implies it.

Your disingenuity. "I didn't realize that calls for diversity have absolutely nothing to do with historical events or past trends of diversity. "

That's not disingenuous. I genuinely cannot make any sense of, or find any rhyme or reason, to many of the current political beliefs on the left. It's as if they were invented by activists who selfishly pursue only their interests. There's no coherence or even consistency to them.

Naw, you interpreted what you read wrongly.

*Incorrectly*.

And why do you think that no such places exist?

They exist. For example the NFL or NBA.

Why take such umbrage to someone else providing stats with links?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Lols, no, you are. I made a post with cited stats and you demanded that I explain them. Short answer: situations change over time as shown by the stats.

Ok. Why the sudden push for diversity? Shouldn't we assume things will change over time?

More disingenuity with a heaping helping of scorn.

Why not acknowledge that how and in what ways racism is/isn't systemic today has its roots in in past?

Oh easy....because I don't have the slightest clue what that means. When a white cop shoots a black guy and people call that systemic racism....I don't know what it means. Does it mean that the cop is racist and that's why he shot? Does it mean the police department is racist and they trained him to do this? Does it mean that this is the result of slavery somehow...or maybe redlining? Those are rhetorical questions...I know you don't know the answer either.

Sure it does. You claimed that the military has been disproportionately white men which, while true historically,

So I was correct....historically.

The proportion of Black enlisted men to total enlisted men is higher than the proportion of Black people to the general population while the proportion of Black officers to total officers is a bit lower than the proportion of Black people in the general population.

And if we're being honest....diversity only refers to black people. A business or industry can't hire enough asians or women to be considered diverse, can it?

At the same time, the proportion of White enlisted men to total enlisted men is lower than the proportion of White people in the general population while the proportion of White officers to total officers is a way higher than the proportion of White people to the general population. Is that clear enough?

Well I'm pretty sure the proportion of white men in society is around 30-33% but hey...who's counting?

Certainly not those who claim to care about diversity.

 

[Laodicean60]

but second lieutenants learn quickly not to push their rank with warrant officers.

The smartest first lieutenants fresh out of school learned from the old E7 and E8's but some butter bars tried to push their rank and usually were embarrassed later because of their inexperience.

 

[DaisyDay]

In any way, to any one, for the purpose of some people's efforts for "diversity".

In some way, surely. To any one, yeah. For the purpose of some people's efforts for "diversity"? Could be!

No...I took that for the snarky comment it was.

Snarky, but sincere.

Because your argument against past lack of diversity in the military implies it.

I haven't made an argument in favor of or against past lack of diversity in the military, . You claimed that the military is and always has been overwhelmingly White; the stats I posted show that's not quite accurate, particularly among the enlisted. Your response, to demand why that matters for the purpose of some people's efforts for "diversity", seems weirdly accusatory, like you're mad that I posted cited stats that add actual numbers.

That's not disingenuous.

"I didn't realize [straw man statement]" strikes me as disingenuous.

I genuinely cannot make any sense of, or find any rhyme or reason, to many of the current political beliefs on the left. It's as if they were invented by activists who selfishly pursue only their interests. There's no coherence or even consistency to them.

I believe that you are bewildered. Some of that appears to be your bizarre expectation that anyone even vaguely on the left must subscribe to a specific set of beliefs and if a particular belief is outside that set, the person with their own beliefs based on their own experiences and perceptions is being inconsistent with "leftist beliefs". Hobgoblins!

*Incorrectly*.

If you prefer.

They exist. For example the NFL or NBA.

Once more, you have interpreted what you read *incorrectly*.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

It's not difficult or obscure: the fuss you are making over a couple of posted stats - with links! - is absurdly over the top.

Ok. Why the sudden push for diversity? Shouldn't we assume things will change over time?

Sudden push? I don't think so. Yes, we should assume that things will change over time, but in what direction?

Oh easy....because I don't have the slightest clue what that means. When a white cop shoots a black guy and people call that systemic racism....I don't know what it means. Does it mean that the cop is racist and that's why he shot? Does it mean the police department is racist and they trained him to do this? Does it mean that this is the result of slavery somehow...or maybe redlining? Those are rhetorical questions...I know you don't know the answer either.

What I have seen change since Michael Stewart, Eleanor Bumpers, Amadou Diallo are that not only are cops being charged, but convicted. I've read that traditionally, sentences are harsher according to the victim's status.

So I was correct....historically.

Yes, that is what I wrote...

And if we're being honest....diversity only refers to black people. A business or industry can't hire enough asians or women to be considered diverse, can it?

You are not being honest as diversity does not refer only to Black people. Whether a business or industry can hire enough Asians or women depends on what they had to start with.

Well I'm pretty sure the proportion of white men in society is around 30-33% but hey...who's counting?

You're right - I was counting White people not just White men.

Certainly not those who claim to care about diversity.

Claim to care - as though care were an absolute.