US declares Jerusalem the Capital of Israel -- will move Embassy there

[Open Heart]

Actually nobody clarified that as the news claim that Trump declared Jerusalem as the capital and never said just East. From CNN:

My reply was in response to the claim that other administrations have tried to make Jerusalem part of a Palestinian State. That is not strictly true. Other administrations have wanted to split Jerusalem, and make East Jerusalem part of a Palestinian State. Even Trump in his speech left that option open.

 

[Followers4christ]

My reply was in response to the claim that other administrations have tried to make Jerusalem part of a Palestinian State. That is not strictly true. Other administrations have wanted to split Jerusalem, and make East Jerusalem part of a Palestinian State. Even Trump in his speech left that option open.

I agree with what you are saying and I should of said part or East Jerusalem not all of it in regards to past administrations wanting to split it. So I apologise on that as I was wrong for saying that. But past administrations have tried to give the Palestinians east Jerusalem and some administrations have tried to give Jerusalem to Israel. I am glad that from the US point of view this issue is handled in regards who Jerusalem belongs to. Past administrations have said they would do the same thing but never did and now every is mad at Trump for actually doing it.

"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided. I have no illusions that this will be easy." - Barack Obama, June 4th 2008

"Something will happen when I'm president: as soon as I take office I will begin the process of moving the US ambassador to the city Israel has chosen as its capital." Geroge W. Bush

"While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver." - Donald Trump

 

[Sketcher]

How is this putting "America first"?

 

[revanneosl]

So Orange Julius throws a sop to the delusional prophecy mavens in his inner circle, bolstering their egos with the belief that they are important enough to be "living in the End Times," and furthering the ludicrous idea that God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, needs a Game Show Host to tell him where the capital of Israel is.

Brilliant.

It's going to get dozens, if not hundreds of people killed. But who cares about that? They aren't "real" people to Trump & his coterie of billionaires (since they aren't rich), and they equally aren't "real" to his base of bible-belt dimwits (since they aren't 'Merican).

As an extra, added, bonus benefit: having the U.S Embassy in Jerusalem, while the rest of the world's Embassies are in Tel Aviv, will cost a big huge fat bunch of money. Extra travel expense. Extra security expense. Extra lodging expense.

The stupid. It burns.

 

[Nige55]

It's going to get dozens, if not hundreds of people killed.

This is the crux of the problem. Violence, murder and terrorism is winning again, and you're not only expecting it, you're allowing for it.

 

[Open Heart]

This is the crux of the problem. Violence, murder and terrorism is winning again, and you're not only expecting it, you're allowing for it.

Nah. It's quite the opposite. A two state solution never had a chance in heck of happening as long as the Palestinians didn't recognize the Jewish state of Israel (with it's capital in Jerusalem, even if it's West Jerusalem). This is a call to reality for the Palestianians, and thank God, it's a long time coming.

 

[MoonlessNight]

How is this putting "America first"?

A strong America stands for truth in her foreign interactions.

 

[Sketcher]

A strong America stands for truth in her foreign interactions.

But what do we get out of it?

 

[Nige55]

Nah. It's quite the opposite. A two state solution never had a chance in heck of happening as long as the Palestinians didn't recognize the Jewish state of Israel (with it's capital in Jerusalem, even if it's West Jerusalem). This is a call to reality for the Palestianians, and thank God, it's a long time coming.

Hi open Heart, maybe my post came across in the wrong way, I totally agree with you. I was trying to express (tying in with your post) that this is something that both Israel and America have the right to do, and we shouldn't tolerate, allow or accept the violence, rage and murder that the Palestinians (and fellow supporters around the world) demonstrate. As you say, it's a reality that they have to face, and they must face it without resorting to violence and murder, and should be held accountable when then they do.

 

[MoonlessNight]

But what do we get out of it?

Republican "Principles" in actions, everyone.

We shouldn't tell the truth unless we get something out of it, apparently.

 

[gideon123]

Here is the reason why the previous quotes DON'T apply.
You have absolutely know way of knowing WHEN God plans to fulfill those prophecies. People can look at this from politics ... and Zionism ... and two-state solutions.

But God looks deep into our own hearts.
And what He sees ... is not the 'goodness' that we think exists.

Please read Ezekial 9 ... and then decide who is in charge of Jerusalem.
Do these idols and profanities still exist in God's eyes today?
I would say yes.

We may live in the "modern era."
But we are the same old people ... the same sins in God's eyes.

 

[pat34lee]

Republican "Principles" in actions, everyone.

We shouldn't tell the truth unless we get something out of it, apparently.

How do you get 'Republican' out of his statement?
People are going crazy with the slander these days.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Republican "Principles" in actions, everyone.

We shouldn't tell the truth unless we get something out of it, apparently.

It seems his reason for "moving" the embassy (though it won't actually move for several more years) was to stick to a campaign promise that placates his base. Perhaps his voters want to "stick to truth" or something, but the President should stick to America's best interests, not the theological interests of some of his base. That's why Sketcher is right to ask "what do we get out of it?" It seems to have little strategic value for American interests, and it seems to me that the US should prioritize peace and regional stability as being in our best interest over the theological concerns of some of the Trump base.

 

[Dave-W]

From Barry Segal's newsletter this morning:

GUATEMALA ALSO MOVING EMBASSY TO JERUSALEM: Guatemala’s president announced on Christmas Eve that the Central American country will move its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, becoming the first nation to follow the lead of USA President Donald Trump in ordering the change. Guatemala was one of nine nations that voted with the United States and Israel last week when the UN General Assembly overwhelmingly adopted a non-binding resolution denouncing Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Morales said that after talks with Israeli PM Netanyahu, he decided to instruct Guatemala’s foreign ministry to move the embassy. The Czech Republic has said it is considering such a step, also Honduras and Paraguay are expected to join the embassy move to Jerusalem. Trump upended decades of USA policy with his 6 Dec. 2017 announcement that he was recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Though Trump said he was merely recognizing reality and not prejudging negotiations on the future borders of the city, Palestinians saw the move as siding with Israel on the most sensitive issue in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Israel’s Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked praised Guatemala's decision. "I am certain that this is only the first step towards the transfer of the embassies of other countries," Shaked said. (NY Post/INN)

 

[pat34lee]

It seems his reason for "moving" the embassy (though it won't actually move for several more years) was to stick to a campaign promise that placates his base. Perhaps his voters want to "stick to truth" or something, but the President should stick to America's best interests, not the theological interests of some of his base. That's why Sketcher is right to ask "what do we get out of it?" It seems to have little strategic value for American interests, and it seems to me that the US should prioritize peace and regional stability as being in our best interest over the theological concerns of some of the Trump base.

Like the area was all peace and tranquility until Trump made the decision.
The Arabs and Muslims will never be satisfied, so we can remove that as
a factor in any decision made about Israel.

 

[gideon123]

I agree with you that I can't see any solution for peace. I don't see how these two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians can ever coexist. But that doesn't put your argument on strong grounds. It's the other way around.

The Trump decision nullifies a Two-State solution. That only leaves a One-State solution. Check the math. If Israel takes over all of the Palestinian territory, it is possible that Palestinians will outnumber Jews inside their own country. Basic demographics. That's how the numbers work out. Do you honestly think that Israel would tolerate that? So what are their solutions? 1. They could kill a large number of Palestinians i.e. a genocide. 2. They could invalidate all of the rights of Palestinians, effectively making them a subjugated people (i.e. slaves), or 3. Israel could force a huge number of Palestinians to become refugees and push them into Jordan. All of these options lead to major crises. There is no peace with any of them.

The point is ... who has given ANY thought to Step 2, Step 3, Step 4? Yes right ... no thought exists. Just make a declaration. There is no long-term policy plan. And you can bet that some hardliners inside Israel are already thinking-through the 3 options I mentioned. But where is the peaceful solution, and why are Evangelicals in Washington DC supporting outcomes that lead to genocide, slavery or another "Syrian crisis" with refugees (except Palestinians this time).

 

[Yekcidmij]

Like the area was all peace and tranquility until Trump made the decision.

What's the argument here - that this therefore excuses it? That this therefore makes it good policy?

The Arabs and Muslims will never be satisfied, so we can remove that as
a factor in any decision made about Israel.

And what's the argument here? Since they "will never be satisfied" we should ignore them in our foreign policy? One could just as easily make this argument about the other side - or even evangelicals in America who have a skewed reading of bible prophecy.

Just as everyone knows that some people "will never be satisfied" and the area wasn't all "peace and tranquility" so most people with just a little bit of calculated thinking knew that keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv was a symbolic gesture acknowledging the interests of our other allies in the region. Now, the administration has not only taken away the symbolic gesture, but has also made an overt gesture signaling that their concerns do not concern us. It signals that America might not be the most reliable ally in the future. Not only that, but it could lead to outcomes down the road that are not in America's best interest.

I fail to see how this is good policy, unless I'm playing checkers while Trump and company are playing a mad game of chess. It looks to me that this is intended to be living up to a campaign promise to some of his base; so it looks like his overt gesture to placate his base comes at the cost of signaling that he doesn't really care about the concerns of his regional allies. And the base that he's placating seems largely to probably be evangelical-sorts of voters who have little concern in good foreign policy, but are more concerned with their particular reading of scripture and advancing that interpretation.

What's most concerning about this to me isn't really the fact of moving the embassy, and it's not so much that this may be bad policy, but it's why it's being done, why his voters want it, the lack of skin-in-the-game his voters have, and the apparent lack of concern they seem to have for the actual parties involved.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I wonder if this will embolden Israel to step up their harassment and oppression of Christians in Jerusalem now?

 

[pat34lee]

I agree with you that I can't see any solution for peace. I don't see how these two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians can ever coexist. But that doesn't put your argument on strong grounds. It's the other way around.

The Trump decision nullifies a Two-State solution. That only leaves a One-State solution.

You just won the Kewpie Doll. That is the truth that has
been known all along. The Muslims will never accept
Israel as a state. That means there will never be peace
until the minds and hearts of one side changes.

What would a two-state solution actually change?
Look at the map below:

Israel is like a matchbook in the middle of football field
compared to the Muslim countries around it. And,
instead of being willing to accept them, the Muslims
want half of that matchbox. For now, anyway. Later
they will want more.

 

[pat34lee]

Just as everyone knows that some people "will never be satisfied" and the area wasn't all "peace and tranquility" so most people with just a little bit of calculated thinking knew that keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv was a symbolic gesture acknowledging the interests of our other allies in the region.

I fail to see how this is good policy, unless I'm playing checkers while Trump and company are playing a mad game of chess.

Our job is not to worry about some other country's interests.
Our interests come first, then our allies and trading partners.
Our detractors and enemies can take their ball and go home.

You can take it for granted that good or bad, we know next
to nothing of the internal politics going on at any time.