• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The CF Faith Groups List has been updated. The Statement of Faith has also been updated (section on unorthodox Christian theology only). Please review both of these updates. If you would like to request a different faith group, please open a support ticket.

US declares Jerusalem the Capital of Israel -- will move Embassy there

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by Open Heart, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:29 AM.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,351
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  2. Lotuspetal_uk

    Lotuspetal_uk Say 'CHEESE!!!!'

    +958
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Private
    This has been one of those moments where my physical eyes and ears see one thing, but in my spirit it felt like an after shock wave had resonated around the world.

    Waiting to see how this pans out..
     
  3. Douger

    Douger Veteran

    +595
    Christian
    Israel isn't seizing any land in this instance. I'm much more upset by the seizing of a single West Bank family farm than I am by this.
     
  4. Followers4christ

    Followers4christ Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!

    +594
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    First God bless Israel and it's a great day when Jerusalem and Israel are one again. But this will be a stone that will get in the way of the surrounding countries and fulfill another prophecy. We as Christians should celebrate this and pray for the peace in Jerusalem.

    Zechariah 12:2-3 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

    Psalms 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! “May they be secure who love you!

    Amos 9:14 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 2:12 PM
  5. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Economist

    +400
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others
    My suspicion is that this has nothing to do with bible prophecy.
     
  6. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Economist

    +400
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others
    I fail to see the strategic value in the decision. Why do something to alienate your other allies such as Jordan, the UAE, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia?
     
  7. Followers4christ

    Followers4christ Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!

    +594
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    Sorry you don't see it from the link below:

    Former Israeli Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, often said, “Jerusalem is the eternal, undivided capital of the nation of Israel and the Jewish people.” On the other hand, the Palestinian Authority, with the help of some world politicians, wants to divide the city and create a Palestinian State with Abu Dis in eastern Jerusalem as its capital.

    Within Jerusalem, the Temple Mount is the most hotly debated piece of real estate anywhere in the world. At the Second Camp David summit held during the summer of 2000, Yasser Arafat said that there was never a temple built by Solomon or Herod on what the Moslems call the Haram esh-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary). Those temples, he said, were located on Mount Gerizim near Nablus (Gold 2007: 11). The literary sources and the Temple Mount Sifting Project have clearly demonstrated that these Temples once stood on the Haram.

    The Bible, history, and geography are clear: Jerusalem was chosen by the Almighty as the capital of the nation of Israel … why? The simple answer – God’s Son.
    There are Better Cities to be Capital

    Politically and strategically there were better sites that David could have chosen to be the capital of Israel. But God had Jerusalem in mind, primarily, it can be argued, for spiritual reasons.

    Life and Land » Blog Archive » Why Did God Choose Jerusalem As The Capital Of Israel?

    The Bible speaks of how in the future Jerusalem will become the centre of international controversy. The prophecies in Zechariah 12-14, Joel 3 and Ezekiel 38-39 show that a great confederacy of nations will attack Israel and in particular Jerusalem. Consider these verses:

    “And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it”. Zechariah 12:3

    Jerusalem | The Gospel Truth

    Ezekiel 37:21 and say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.

    Why evangelicals are 'ecstatic' about Trump's Jerusalem move - CNNPolitics
     
  8. Followers4christ

    Followers4christ Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!

    +594
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    How many administrations have tried to make a two state solution with the Palestinians getting Jerusalem. The fact is both Israel and Palestinians have claim to Jerusalem. Even though to any honest person that knows history Israel has much more of a claim to this historic city. In order to not go in circles like every past US administrations have done we had to decide who gets Jerusalem to settle it. Trump has done just that by giving it to our close friend Israel.

    "There is no peace that doesn’t include Jerusalem as the capital of Israel." - Benjamin Netanyahu

    "The children of Palestine are the hope, the future, the independence, and the state, and in them we see Jerusalem, the capital of our independent state." - Mahmoud Abbas

    Of Course Jerusalem Is Israel’s Capital
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 12:26 AM
  9. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +451
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    US declares Jerusalem the Capital of Israel -- will move Embassy there

    This is a FUNNY title ~ since Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel!

    The US has 136 Embassies around the World.

    135 of the US Embassies around the World ARE located in the foreign nations Capital.

    1 Embassy IS NOT located in the foreign nations Capital.

    That 1 Embassy is located in Tel Aviv, Israel.

    That 1 Embassy was established in 1966, in Tel Aviv, and NOT Jerusalem ~
    BECAUSE ~ Jerusalem was a disputed territory.

    President Trump has stated TWO things ~
    1) the US formally recognizes Jerusalem as Israels Capital.
    2) his intent to move the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

    President Trump announced Wednesday that the United States formally recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and that he intends to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
    www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/12/07...

    No, Trump did not DECLARE Jerusalem is Israel's Capital.
    Yes, Trump did DECLARE the US formally recognizes Jerusalem Israel's Capital.

    (and FYI - when other nations have moved their Capital to another City, so also, has the US moved their Embassy to the other city)

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  10. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +451
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    Trump didn't give anyone Jerusalem. Trump simply stated that the US will formally recognize Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, thus moving the US Embassy to it's Capital, is the same as the US establishes all of its US Embassies in the foreign STATES, recognized Capital.

    The US does recognize Israel as a STATE, and now is formally recognizing their Capital.

    The US does NOT recognize Palestine as a STATE, and has no Embassy with them.

    Some countries DO recognize Palestine as a STATE, and also recognize Jerusalem as Palestine's Capital.

    So there shall be disagreements with the US's decisions, and possible backlashes, perhaps as some do, ie bombing, perhaps as some do, with embargoes. So be prepared for the threats, and possibility of Turkey and Saudi not wanting to trade with or sell to the US.

    Turkey main exports ~
    1. Vehicles: US$19.8 billion (13.9% of total exports)
    2. Machinery including computers: $12.4 billion (8.7%)
    3. Gems, precious metals: $12.2 billion (8.5%)
    4. Knit or crochet clothing, accessories: $8.9 billion (6.2%)
    5. Electrical machinery, equipment: $7.8 billion (5.5%)
    6. Iron, steel: $6.2 billion (4.3%)
    7. Clothing, accessories (not knit or crochet): $5.9 billion (4.2%)
    8. Plastics, plastic articles: $5 billion (3.5%)
    9. Articles of iron or steel: $5 billion (3.5%)
    10. Fruits, nuts: $3.9 billion (2.7%)

    Saudi main exports ~

    1. crude oil

    Trumps long term plan has been, Jobs in America for Americans.....
    Why long term? Because America has closed its opportunities for Production, and preparing to Produce, means building facilities. ie Constructing first, then opportunities for jobs. :)
    Money made in America, money spent in America. win, win.
    Win, for America's economy. Win for Americans.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  11. He is Risen 72

    He is Risen 72 Colossians 2:14 The Law is nailed to the Cross!!

    +534
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican
    Soon the United States will fulfill prophesy and usher in Christs Kingdom!
     
  12. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Economist

    +400
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others
    I just didn't see what the link had to do with bible prophecy.

    I also don't see what Arafat's comments have to do with bible prophecy.

    Also, and interestingly, the Samaritans did have a temple on Mt. Gerizim. In fact they still exist and still live near Nablus and still do things like Passover sacrifices (pretty interesting youtube watch if you like). There seems to have been a Samaritan temple at various times - probably since Sanballat at least, though we do see biblical evidence of a temple near Samaria and Gerizim since the times of the split into Israel and Judah. Arafat would be wrong though to say there wasn't one in Jerusalem.

    Still not sure what this has to do with bible prophecy. It appears to me that according to the bible, history, and geography, the northern Israelites would have disputed where Yahweh chose his capital. They would say it was Samaria.

    Still not sure how you connect those verses to events of the past 2 or so days. I mean, you can always assert it, but proving it is another story.

    Saying Jerusalem is a stumbling block could apply to points in history ranging from the writing of Zechariah itself til now. Applying it to the last event in a news headline seems to be nothing more than anchoring bias at worst, and arbitrary at best.

    Ezekiel seems to me to probably be writing about the return from the Babylonian exile, which would make since as that's where, when and to whom he is writing.
     
  13. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +451
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    Scripture;

    Gen 15
    [18] In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
    [19] The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
    [20] And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
    [21] And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

    Deut 11
    [24] Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.

    Land;


    [​IMG]
    TrueRichesAcademy.com / Challenging Believers to Think

    Historically;
    Philistines began migrating to Israel's promised lands.
    Philistines became modern Palestinians' establishing their own nation, which some of the world's nations acknowledge, and some of the world's nations do not acknowledge.

    Today;
    Israel is but a tiny strip.

    Yes;
    There is constant conflict between Palestinians and Israeli's.

    Yes;
    World nations have had Summits, to gather together, in Diplomacy, to attempt to come to an agreement, suitable to both Palestinians and Israeli's .

    Yes;
    The US has been involved and in attendance at such Summits.

    I highly doubt a Religious Difference will be resolved with a Secular "diplomatic" Solution.

    Wars and rumor of wars, will be in common-place until Jesus returns.

    Trump gave nothing to the Israeli's, particularly their own Capital.
    Trump simply announced the US formally recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's Capital, as the Jews themselves have done for years.

    The US has never recognized Palestine as a State, thus neither has the US recognized Jerusalem as a Capital of a State, it does not recognize.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  14. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,351
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    East Jerusalem. Not all of it.
     
  15. Followers4christ

    Followers4christ Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!

    +594
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    First the map that you showed is not accurate.

    New Testament map of Israel:

    Redirect Notice

    Today's Israel:

    Redirect Notice

    Sorry you don't see Bible prophecy regarding Israel as real. As my post gave some scriptures telling of a couple of prophecies that are happening right now. Here are more on the YouTube video below:



    Should Christians support the nation of Israel?
     
  16. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,351
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    The map that was shown was what was given to Abraham, not NT Israel, as your map showed, or Today's Israel, as your 2nd map showed. Thus the map WAS accurate for what it claimed to depict.
     
  17. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +451
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    First of all, the map I posted was not in regard to the time of Jesus on earth, or today.
    Nor was the Scripture I posted during Jesus' time on earth.
    Nor was the Scripture I posted regarding today.

    If you want to dispute it's accuracy, then do so, according to a map of the land Given to Abraham.
    Not 4,000 years later, or 6,000 years later after Abraham.

    Really sorry, you feel the need to make FALSE ACCUSATIONS.

    So? Who mentioned PROPHECY? I didn't. Oh right, you just now brought that up out of the blue, when you made your false accusation against me.

    I don't even know you, and you are going to tell me what I believe regarding Biblical prophecy? Fascinating!

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  18. Followers4christ

    Followers4christ Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!

    +594
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    Actually nobody clarified that as the news claim that Trump declared Jerusalem as the capital and never said just East. From CNN:

    "Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital has also moved the United States a big step closer to relocating the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which would be seen as cementing Israeli sovereignty over the city."

    The last sentence "Israeli sovereignty over the city" does not say how much if not all of Jerusalem will be apart of Israel.

    Why declaring Jerusalem capital of Israel is controversial - CNN

    From Fox News:

    "By recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, President Trump is affirming the Jewish people’s history. He is also correcting a long-standing historical problem and a grievous injustice.

    The president is doing nothing radical. His support for Israel is in step with the West’s support for the creation of the independent State of Israel in the aftermath of World War II and the Holocaust.

    Denying Israel’s ancient history makes it easier for the anti-Semites and haters of Israel to oppose modern Israel’s claim to the land, including its historic capital city Jerusalem."

    Jerusalem has been the home of the Jews for 3,000 years – to deny it is Israel's capital is Fake History
     
  19. gideon123

    gideon123 Humble Servant of God

    677
    +53
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Like others - I feel a sense of real SHOCK about what has happened. Furthermore, I am mystified and stunned that we have "evangelicals" in the USA who are somehow advocating that this was the "right thing to do".

    ALL of the allies of the USA - all of them - begged and pleaded for the President NOT to take this action. The USA has now embarrassed its best friends in the region, and has transferred tremendous political energy to its enemies.

    But you may say ... this is only political.

    OK true. But then how about the fact that all the major Christian leaders, from a variety of denominations, asked Donald Trump NOT to make this declaration. These are Christians actually living in Jersualem. Wouldn't they know better than anybody. And still their voices were ignored.

    I see countless Christians on Yahoo saying things like ... "well Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, and that's it.". And astonishingly, many of those voices carry bigotry and hatred as well. BUT MY REPLY to them is very simple. Apparently you did not read very much of your own Bible. Try reading the entire Book of Jeremiah. See what God did to Israel and Judah. And after you finish, then read Ezekiel, Chapter 5 about Jerusalem. Are you still confident that you are an "authority" about this city??

    The "Washington DC Evangelicals" are giving the world the distinct impression that they are perfectly happy to see the start of World War Three. Their viewpoint seems to be ... "As for me, I'm safe because I am positive that I will go up in the Tribulation, and frankly I don't care about the other 7.7 billion people living here on Earth".

    That is how their message comes across.
    This idea is about as far from the words of Christ - as I can possibly imagine.

    We should PRAY.
    I have never seen the world so fragile as it is right now, nor so many people so blind and filled with hate speech. The consequences of the "Jerusalem Decision" will be big ... very, very big.
     
  20. Followers4christ

    Followers4christ Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!

    +594
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    Here is a few reasons that people agree to this:

    JERUSALEM — How long do you think there has been a Jewish temple on Temple Mount in Jerusalem?

    That is a question I like to ask when I’m leading a discussion with Israelis or Jews from other countries. The most common response is, “Two thousand years.” But that’s actually the answer to a separate question: How long ago did the Romans destroy the Second Temple, beginning the Jewish exile?

    According to many scholars, there was a temple on that site for nearly 1,000 years before the Roman destruction. That would mean that for about 3,000 years, Jerusalem has been the center of the Jewish people: a physical center when a temple was standing, and a center for prayer and longing from afar after the Jews were dispersed around the globe. Every year, at the very end of Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year, and at the end of the Passover Seder, Jews recite, “Next year in Jerusalem.”

    Opinion | Of Course Jerusalem Is Israel’s Capital

    Key Islamic leaders have rewritten history, denying the historical existence of Israel. This is absurd. Finding peace in the Middle East is not helped refusing to tell the truth about the past.

    The most egregious fake history revolves around the claim that there never was an ancient kingdom of Israel and that the Jewish people never had a temple in Jerusalem.

    No trained historian and certainly no competent archaeologist agrees with such nonsense. Of course ancient Israel existed – and existed in the very place where modern Israel exists today.

    Ron Dermer, Israel’s ambassador to the United States, recently spoke at the dedication service for the Museum of the Bible in Washington. We listened as he said the values of the Bible “gave us the strength to turn tragedy into triumph, restore our sovereignty and rebuild Jerusalem, the original DC – David’s Capital.”

    Jerusalem has been the home of the Jews for 3,000 years – to deny it is Israel's capital is Fake History

    This is also very important to Christians as the Bible is clear that Jerusalem is Israel and it's important in Biblical prophecy.

    Zechariah 12:2-3 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

    Psalms 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! “May they be secure who love you!

    Amos 9:14 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

    For evangelicals, Jerusalem is about prophecy, not politics (opinion) - CNN
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 7:12 PM
Loading...