upset by comments

[Brennin]

So you agree that there can be an orientation rather than a choice. So if pedophilia can be an orientation, why can't homosexuality be an orientation?

I don't think we are on the same page here. I do think homosexuality is an orientation. The only relevance I think pedophilia has in this discussion is that pedophiles do not appear to choose to be attracted to their victims (or potential victims). Thus, an orientation is not a justification in and of itself.

 

[Brennin]

Whether it is or not has el-zippo to do with morality. It's a bogus argument.

So you say.

 

[Brennin]

I don't know of any reason to accept what the bible says as any authoritative guide to moral behavior.

He was addressing people who identify as Christians.

 

[Brennin]

Why does homosexuality need to be justified? What actual harm is caused by homosexuality?

Hint: "jesus don't like it" or "I find it disgusting or icky or an abomination" doesn't count as harm, unless you are likely to have a nervous breakdown because of it or something. Which would be your own fault for getting worked up over nothing.

If you are asking me how I am harmed by another's homoeroticism, then I would have to say I am not unless it involves (God forfend!) a loved one.

 

[NateBlack]

Thus, an orientation is not a justification in and of itself.

Justification for what?

 

[TooCurious]

I don't think we are on the same page here. I do think homosexuality is an orientation. The only relevance I think pedophilia has in this discussion is that pedophiles do not appear to choose to be attracted to their victims (or potential victims). Thus, an orientation is not a justification in and of itself.

If I may be permitted to jump into the discussion, I think the difference is that child molestation involves a victim. Someone is harmed. That is what makes the idea of "justification" (or a lack thereof) relevant.

Homosexual sex between consenting adults does not, in and of itself, harm anyone, and thus does not need to justify itself.

 

[Caylin]

If you are asking me how I am harmed by another's homoeroticism, then I would have to say I am not unless it involves (God forfend!) a loved one.

Then why do you give a damn?

 

[Brennin]

If I may be permitted to jump into the discussion, I think the difference is that child molestation involves a victim. Someone is harmed. That is what makes the idea of "justification" (or a lack thereof) relevant.

Homosexual sex between consenting adults does not, in and of itself, harm anyone, and thus does not need to justify itself.

I disagree that no justification is required. However, I do not equate the two.

 

[Brennin]

Then why do you give a damn?

As long as it is kept on the penumbra of society I usually don't.

 

[Brennin]

Justification for what?

For acting on it.

 

[Caylin]

As long as it is kept on the penumbra of society I usually don't.

Ah I see. So as long as you don't have to see *different* people its all fine by you.

 

[Brennin]

Ah I see. So as long as you don't have to see *different* people its all fine by you.

Yeah, pretty much. Just imagine what would happen to San Francisco...

 

[NateBlack]

For acting on it.

So people are naturally oriented gay or straight, but gay people shouldn't act on it?

It's just like saying... "Black & white people may fall in love with each other, but they should get married."

You don't think there's anything wrong with telling a gay person that they have to live lives void of love or, God forbid, any sexual expression?

If you're gay... and I can't remember if you are... feel free to carry that burden if you want.

I think there's a much more authentic and courageous way to live: Honoring the God-given capacity for love and intimacy that we all have and finding that special person to share that intimacy with for life.

 

[CCGirl]

Oh really?. Why don't you speak to someone who was victimized by a pederast and see what they think was the sexual predator's sexual preference?

How do you know I have not been victimized? Paedophiles are attracted to PRE-PUBESCENT CHILDREN. They are sexually aroused by children that have not yet entered puberty. They may like boys or girls, which makes them a paedophile. It has NOTHING to do with a persons sexual orientation.

 

[Brennin]

So people are naturally oriented gay or straight...

It would appear so.

...but gay people shouldn't act on it?

Correct.

You don't think there's anything wrong with telling a gay person that they have to live lives void of love or, God forbid, any sexual expression?

No, I do not.

If you're gay... and I can't remember if you are... feel free to carry that burden if you want.

I am not. You must be thinking of Kgreg.

 

[crazyfingers]

So you say.

Care to demonstrate any relevance to morality?

 

[crazyfingers]

He was addressing people who identify as Christians.

I see no reasoning why I can't point out the flaw in the argument.

 

[NateBlack]

It would appear so.



Correct.



No, I do not.



I am not. You must be thinking of Kgreg.

You don't think there's anything wrong with telling a gay person that they have to live lives void of love or, God forbid, any sexual expression?

(by Brennin) No, I do not.

It ain't pretty, but it's there.

The ease with which you answer that question is a little disturbing.

Well, at least you're honest.

 

[CCGirl]

No, I do not.

How horrible! to condemn a person to a life without love, intimacy, companionship with a lifelong partner.

 

[TooCurious]

I disagree that no justification is required. However, I do not equate the two.

Okay. When I asserted that no justification was required for homosexual sex between consenting adults, I intended to convey that I think so because I perceive no harm caused by such an act, and I consider an action which causes harm to no one to be morally-neutral, and thus not requiring justification. I am curious; with which part(s) of this thought process do you disagree?

1. Homosexual sex between consenting adults does not cause harm.

2. Actions that cause no harm are morally-neutral.

3. Morally-neutral acts do not require justification.

4. Other (please specify).