Unless You Eat My Flesh And Drink My Blood

[Jonaitis]

How so?

because it implies a vice or crime.

 

[Southernscotty]

Communion is becoming a part of. An intimate sharing of thought and actions.
Thus being immersed in Jesus Christ

 

[Jonaitis]

What is this flesh and blood?

His person and redemptive work. Unless you believe (fig. eat), you will die.

 

[W2L]

Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God ( Matthew 4:4 ), this is what it means to eat His flesh.

Matthew 20:22-23
But Jesus answered and said, You know not what you ask. Are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They said unto him, We are able.Jesus said to them, You will indeed drink from my cup...

This is what it meas to drink His blood, to live your life the way He lived His life in every single detail, deny your own self, take your cross and follow Him.

I hope so because i dont believe my soul would hang on whether or not i eat bread and wine. That seems wrong to me. God sent Jesus to save me, but without eating bread he cant save me? I cant believe that

 

[YesMe]

I hope so because i dont believe my soul would hang on whether or not i eat bread and wine. That seems wrong to me. God sent Jesus to save me, but without eating bread he cant save me? I cant believe that

This is the answer, it has nothing to do with wine and bread, that's for remembering Jesus's sacrifice.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I hope so because i dont believe my soul would hang on whether or not i eat bread and wine. That seems wrong to me. God sent Jesus to save me, but without eating bread he cant save me? I cant believe that

Don't make it hard. It ain't hard. The thief on the cross was saved by Lord Jesus while he hung on the cross.He did not eat bread nor did he drink wine that we know of.

 

[Jonaitis]

Well, if we read the context it refers to Jesus calling the Jews to receive him (not at all referring to the Lord's Supper):

"This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." - John 6:29

"I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst." - John 6:35

This is what he means by eating his flesh and drinking his blood in the rest of the chapter. The Jews were offended, not only the language he used, but most of all by such bold statements Jesus made about himself toward them, that they depended on him for eternal life, so they departed from him. "Do you take offense at this?" (John 6:61). This was a common reaction among his own people...

 

[Kenny'sID]

1

You misunderstand brother. It is not do as you want and still go to Heaven. It is a supernatural birth into the family of God. It is a mystery that the world cannot understand. Once you are born, you cannot be unborn. That is fact in the natural, and even more so in the Spirit.

I and others have done this several times, and when the list of sins come up, as in, and for example, "Can we do things like murder, theft, fornication as a lifestyle and still go to heaven, as long as we claim we have faith?", or in this case, where the OP is just another spin for their defense, they often answer "Yes, we can do all those things" even as a lifestyle and still go to heaven.

I realize there are different varieties of OSAS and all don't see it exactly the same way, however, I assure you, some see it exactly as mentioned.

 

[Albion]

Flesh is living as the way Christ lived.

Blood is enduring the difficulties for living the way Jesus lived.

Believe: John 14:12


.

If that were all that Jesus meant, he would not have spoken of the sacred meal in the way he did, at what we call the Last Supper.

 

[Albion]

Don't make it hard. It ain't hard. The thief on the cross was saved by Lord Jesus while he hung on the cross.He did not eat bread nor did he drink wine that we know of.

Which is an object lesson for all of us. IF any of us can have a personal, face to face, conversation with Christ moments before our deaths and confess our belief in him, we may be in the position that the Good Thief was in.

Otherwise, it's something else that we are talking about in this discussion.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Don't make it hard. It ain't hard. The thief on the cross was saved by Lord Jesus while he hung on the cross.He did not eat bread nor did he drink wine that we know of.

Nor did he have to do any works because Jesus used a little common sense and realized he was going to be dead shortly so he had no chance to do those things. Jesus just isn't going to expect the impossible from anyone, it wouldn't be fair, and if anyone was ever fair minded, it was Christ.

Had the thief lived for some reason, the same thing would have been expected of him, as it was from others.

Think about it, can you see Jesus there with his arms crossed after telling the thief he was saved, then adding "As long as you get out there and do your works between now and when you're dead? Now get to it!" That would be cruel as well as silly. That's not my Jesus anyway.

 

[HTacianas]

.
Regardless of how Christ is interpreted; one thing is for sure: unless people somehow eat his flesh and drink his blood, they have no life in them; viz: they are quite dead on the hoof.

● John 6:53 . . Jesus said: "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you."

The kind of life about which he spoke isn't organic life; rather, it's a supernatural kind of life.

● John 6:54 . . .Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,

According to John 10:28, eternal life is an imperishable kind of life. In other words; people have to obtain it only once, and they never have to obtain it again because eternal life cannot die, nor does it spoil or decay. Were that not true, then God would've died of old age long ago.
_

Christ is not "interpreted" in the Church as far as the Eucharist is concerned. To "interpret" a thing implies that it must be written first so that it can be interpreted after. That the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ has been the belief and practice of the Church since before those words were written. Long before those words were written Paul said to the Corinthians:

1Co 10:16 - The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

He did not say "the cup that we will bless", but "the cup...we bless". It was established before it was written. That it is the body and blood of Christ was also established:

1Co 11:29 - For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

He says "eateth and drinketh" and not "will eateth and drinketh". He says "the Lord's body" and not "some other thing".

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

1



I and others have done this several times, and when the list of sins come up, as in, and for example, "Can we do things like murder, theft, fornication as a lifestyle and still go to heaven, as long as we claim we have faith?", or in this case, where the OP is just another spin for their defense, they often answer "Yes, we can do all those things" even as a lifestyle and still go to heaven.

I realize there are different varieties of OSAS and all don't see it exactly the same way, however, I assure you, some see it exactly as mentioned.

Maybe there are some who claim to be born again but are not truly. I say that because the Bible promises that when the Holy Spirit comes, He will seal us and guide us into all of the truth. God does not lie. He saves to the utmost. Now if someone has truly been born of the Holy Spirit, he/she does not want to do the same sinful things as you list in this quote. I submit that if the person still desires to do these things they need to examine themselves.
2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Nor did he have to do any works because Jesus used a little common sense and realized he was going to be dead shortly so he had no chance to do those things. Jesus just isn't going to expect the impossible from anyone, it wouldn't be fair, and if anyone was ever fair minded, it was Christ.

Had the thief lived for some reason, the same thing would have been expected of him, as it was from others.

The point is...Lord Jesus is the Savior. He alone is the Savior. It is not Lord Jesus plus works. Now we are expected to do works, but it is not our works that saves us or keeps us saved. The things we DO in faith will serve as our reward.We build/work upon our foundation which is Christ.
1 Cor.3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

IOW if all your works are wood, hay and stubble, when tried by fire it will burn up.I heard a preacher say once that some people will make it to Heaven but their britches will be scorched and smoking. (lol).

 

[Kenny'sID]

John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

 

[HTacianas]

So my soul is doomed without mere bread and wine? Im having a hard time believing that.

It is not "mere bread and wine". It begins as bread and wine but after the blessing it is the body and blood of Christ.

Jhn 6:54 - “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[HTacianas]

According to Augustine, this passage is to be taken figuratively and not literally, because it implies a vice or crime.

That is a gross misrepresentation of the teachings of Augustine. So much so that it becomes a lie. What you are referring to is Augustine's exposition on interpretation of scripture and *not* his view on the Eucharist. Speaking directly to the Eucharist, Augustine said:

"That cup, or rather what the cup contains, sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ."

Your reference is often a "mined quote" from Augustine used by many to spread the falsehood that Augustine held some view of the Eucharist that differed from what Christianity has always taught.

Remember this: Anyone who tells you that Augustine did not teach that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ is either grossly ignorant or is lying to you.

 

[Jonaitis]

That is a gross misrepresentation of the teachings of Augustine. So much so that it becomes a lie. What you are referring to is Augustine's exposition on interpretation of scripture and *not* his view on the Eucharist. Speaking directly to the Eucharist, Augustine said:

"That cup, or rather what the cup contains, sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ."

Your reference is often a "mined quote" from Augustine used by many to spread the falsehood that Augustine held some view of the Eucharist that differed from what Christianity has always taught.

Remember this: Anyone who tells you that Augustine did not teach that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ is either grossly ignorant or is lying to you.

You failed to realize that my comments was directed at John 6, and I was drawing Augustine on his interpretation of that very passage:

"If the sentence is one of command, either forbidding a crime or vice, or enjoining an act of prudence or benevolence, it is not figurative. If, however, it seems to enjoin a crime or vice, or to forbid an act of prudence or benevolence, it is figurative. 'Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,' says Christ, 'and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.' This seems to enjoin a crime or a vice; it is therefore a figure, enjoining that we should have a share in the sufferings of our Lord, and that we should retain a sweet and profitable memory of the fact that His flesh was wounded and crucified for us." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 3:16:24).

You went off on another trail that I did not tread.

"Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: 'Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood,' describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, by means of which the Church, like a human being consisting of many members, is refreshed and grows, is welded together and compacted of both,--of faith, which is the body, and of hope, which is the soul; as also the Lord of flesh and blood. For in reality the blood of faith is hope, in which faith is held as by a vital principle." - Clement of Alexandria (The Instructor, 1:6)

 

[HTacianas]

You failed to realize that my comments was directed at John 6, and I was drawing Augustine on his interpretation of that very passage:

"If the sentence is one of command, either forbidding a crime or vice, or enjoining an act of prudence or benevolence, it is not figurative. If, however, it seems to enjoin a crime or vice, or to forbid an act of prudence or benevolence, it is figurative. 'Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,' says Christ, 'and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.' This seems to enjoin a crime or a vice; it is therefore a figure, enjoining that we should have a share in the sufferings of our Lord, and that we should retain a sweet and profitable memory of the fact that His flesh was wounded and crucified for us." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 3:16:24).

You went off on another trail that I did not tread.

"Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: 'Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood,' describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, by means of which the Church, like a human being consisting of many members, is refreshed and grows, is welded together and compacted of both,--of faith, which is the body, and of hope, which is the soul; as also the Lord of flesh and blood. For in reality the blood of faith is hope, in which faith is held as by a vital principle." - Clement of Alexandria (The Instructor, 1:6)

Augustine's "enjoining of a crime" is based on his belief that cannibalism is a crime, and that Jesus was not telling his disciples to literally bite off his fingers and eat them, therefore he was speaking figuratively. In this case, not meaning his earthly body, but the Eucharist to come.

None of that is to mean that Augustine did not believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ. You will not find among any of the Church fathers anyone who did not hold that belief.

 

[Jonaitis]

Augustine's "enjoining of a crime" is based on his belief that cannibalism is a crime, and that Jesus was not telling his disciples to literally bite off his fingers and eat them, therefore he was speaking figuratively. In this case, not meaning his earthly body, but the Eucharist to come.

None of that is to mean that Augustine did not believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ. You will not find among any of the Church fathers anyone who did not hold that belief.

I'm not going to try to defend my view of Christ's presence in the table in early church figures. They aren't all coherent and should not be treated as authoritative, just as Luther and Calvin weren't coherent and authoritative to me.

Augustine may have held that Christ's spiritual presence was present in the table, while using the biblical language of "this is my body and blood," I don't know, but I haven't read enough to draw that picture yet.