University to Remove WWII Murals Due to "Lack of Diversity"

[Albion]

If that is an answer, you’re being awfully indirect.

What do you want me to say? I consider it obvious that if the painting were about WW2 and it adorns a hall on campus that is dedicated to veterans and was created by a veteran of that war, it matters whether the scene captured by the mural relates to that time in our history or instead is about cows or trees.

 

[Sparagmos]

The reason given. They were offended by it. But they can do what they want, of course.

It was being taken down because ppl were “offended.” I’m asking why it’s a big deal to take it down. People are saying it’s historic somehow and I don’t see or get that.

 

[Archivist]

Oh no. I also noted that the murals are not meant to depict life during World War II, so the claim that they do is invalid.

Yes, I know that. That is why I said that it was incorrectly stated in the OP that the paintings depicted WWII.

I also mentioned that the people shown in the murals are not shown to be of any particular race, so the usual diversity claim is invalid.

we don’t know what the mural looked like when it was originally painted. If it was exposed to direct sunlight the colors could have changed.

I mentioned that moving them will, if past experience with these sorts of things holds, almost certainly be to make them less often viewed. IOW, it's not a neutral shifting of location.

I agreed with the idea that moving them would likely be impossible and pointlessly costly even if it is possible.

That’s why I mentioned Gettysburg. Some said that the building should remain because of the famed architect, others (including me) wanted it down because a modern building didn’t belong there.

And I also made the point that doing what is planned is a dishonorable slap in the face to the artist, a 95 year old veteran (!) and an alumnus of this same university!

His daughter seems to be very upset about it. His response was “Time goes by and things change.”

 

[IceJad]

If these murals actually depicted WWII I might be more inclined to agree with you, but they don't. They are just paintings from the 1950s. There is no reason to complain about their removal. It is as if they were painted by some famous artist.

Firstly it commissioned by veterans as a memorial of their fallen. Secondly by who's authority and expert opinion do you pass the judgement that the mural and its artist are unworthy to be preserved? With all due respect I can "complain" as you called it, as I want because it is my prerogative. Reasons are mine to form and hold. You are free to hold yours.

But we are not talking about Trump.

I'm drawing parallel here, because you imply that an art is the sole belonging of the owner therefore any comment on its handling is invalid because we as outsiders have no stake in it.

 

[Albion]

His daughter seems to be very upset about it. His response was “Time goes by and things change.”

That sounds as though he's resigned to the inevitable, but she still isn't reconciled to such an injustice.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

Then you must think my country's national monument is racist and sexist for only portraying the majority race and only men even though there are many British, Australian and British Raj soldiers giving up their lives for my country.

National Monument (Malaysia) - Wikipedia

Lol no. It’s a bronze statue, not a painting. Also, the statue is actually depicting war; the mural is a terrible dedication to fallen soldiers and the sacrifice of soldiers regardless of diversity.

 

[Archivist]

Firstly it commissioned by veterans as a memorial of their fallen.

The building was built as a memorial. The building isn't being torn down.

Secondly by who's authority and expert opinion do you pass the judgement that the mural and its artist are unworthy to be preserved?

I'm not passing judgement on this. The decision is being made by University officials, not me.

With all due respect I can "complain" as you called it, as I want because it is my prerogative. Reasons are mine to form and hold. You are free to hold yours.

Yes, you have a right to your opinion. I'm curious, have you visited the campus? Have you actually seen these murals? Or are you forming opinions based on some rather poor photos of the murals that are online?

I'm drawing parallel here, because you imply that an art is the sole belonging of the owner therefore any comment on its handling is invalid because we as outsiders have no stake in it.

So we should be able to tell Bill Gates where the various paintings he owns can be hung? We have a stake in art that he owns?

 

[Orthodox_Christian]

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[Aldebaran]

It was being taken down because ppl were “offended.” I’m asking why it’s a big deal to take it down. People are saying it’s historic somehow and I don’t see or get that.

Because other people were offended by it being taken down. Shouldn't that matter?

 

[Aldebaran]

It would be rather nice if we stopped arguing over paint on a wall and what it represents or what it looks like or who it is a painting of. I'm sure by now it's been removed regardless if what anyone here has said about it. This is just a moral debate and no one wins in those.

If someone painted the "n-word" on a wall, it wouldn't be dismissed as simply "paint on a wall". Why should people be offended by that (which is a much lower volume of paint) and not the removal of actual artwork meant to honor those who have died fighting for our country?

 

[Orthodox_Christian]

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[Aldebaran]

It takes a strong-willed person to stand up for what they believe in and that's not me. I actually have quite opposite opinions about what is on the wall but people are so much more dedicated to the keyboard and what they think that it gets annoying trying to convince the other person of anything. Solution? Agree and move on because there is nothing that can be done. I support the military and like them but it routes back to standing up for yourself and others which is not what I am best at. I would never pick up a gun and kill to defend myself or my country because I'm too scared. Might as well have that reflect here in an internet forum. I should be called St. Peter right now. Turning my back because it's so much easier.

even if there was certain words spray painted on a wall and everyone thought it should stay up, guess what? I wouldn't say anything even if I thought otherwise. A bad character flaw in me I suppose but I'm a scared person. A person doesn't have a moral compass anymore once fear drives them to be a sheep.

Not really too much to be scared of when voicing your opinion or what you believe on an internet forum. That's what makes it a great place to express ideas and values. For example, I say here all the time that I'm a conservative and will vote for Trump again. But I won't put any bumper stickers on my car or signs in my front yard advertising it. Voting at the poll site is what will count.

 

[Orthodox_Christian]

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[Aldebaran]

I'll vote for Trump too but I'll tell people to their face that I'll vote for Biden just so I won't get an argument. I know I live in America but I'm not really one to express my 1st amendment rights very well because my argument skills are awful. I find very quickly that if I express what I believe in then I'm bound to get into an argument and I have no way of defending myself. I failed debate class with an F in college twice. I had to switch it to English 2 the third time because I knew I wouldn't pass. Sad reality but that's me I guess. The only thing I'm good at is talking about God. Politics is a set of morals in which to drive a country and that involves argument which is not what I'm good at. In most cases I just say something in here and ignore the rebuttals to me by other users.

Well, we all have our weaknesses, but I'm pretty sure you have your own strengths as well.

 

[Orthodox_Christian]

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[Aldebaran]

I might but I haven't figured it out yet. History I guess is my strength? I don't know.

It's usually others around us and not ourselves who see our strengths, especially when they notice their own weaknesses.

 

[Archivist]

For example, I say here all the time that I'm a conservative and will vote for Trump again. But I won't put any bumper stickers on my car or signs in my front yard advertising it. Voting at the poll site is what will count.

Mr. Biden will be getting my vote this time. First time that I will have voted for a Democrat in a Presidential election. I have put out campaign signs for local races in the past, but never for Presidential races.

 

[Brightmoon]

Can they do renovations? Sure, but there is a political motive in this case.

Can the students prefer something else? Sure, but that is because there is a political motive behind it because the students are told Marxist nonsense.

When is it appropriate to change artwork? I guess when the students have been brainwashed like now.

Why do I think it needs to be destroyed? Because it's part of the wall. You can't just pop it off. It needs to be removed in a more destructive way to get it off because it's painted on. You don't just pop painted bricks off of the wall or drywall. Might as well paint over it now that I think about it. After all, if you're white, you're wrong? Can I get an amen, anyone? ...Good grief...

Oh nonsense ! museums remove paintings from walls to conserve or protect them all the time. It might be expensive or time consuming but they can be removed and preserved

 

[Orthodox_Christian]

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[Orthodox_Christian]

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