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there are many parts that I believe back up eternal damnation. Read the highlights and see.Jude 1
The Warnings of History to the Ungodly
1Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:A warning of mockers, devoid of spirit, ungodly, "wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. "
2May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.
3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
8Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
10But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
11Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
13wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
14It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
15to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
16These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage. Keep Yourselves in the Love of God
17But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
18that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts." 19These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.
"and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. " perishing in the rebellion; doubly dead!!
after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. He seperates the sheep from the goats. The beloved from "those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, " AMEN!!
20But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,Let the Word of God speak for Him!
21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
Where to begin....Let's see, oh! A lot of things are "right there" in the scripture Chaela, Such as "eternal fire" but not according to Universalists.It's right there in the Scripture -- coming "ages". That would be
plural. I do realize it makes the "unforgivable sin" Apologetics a bit
less credible.
More powerful than God? NO! NEVER!Really? So what is it about Freemasons that make them more
powerful than God? You might be impressed by the titles, but He
isn't.
God...All-powerful? Yes.Now that you got right. Three's a charm, eh?
I don't know their hearts, but I'm not about to assume that the
human heart is stronger in the face of God's power than God is. I'd
rather err on the side of assuming He's all-powerful. It's a strange
habit of mine.
In context this says all men who die, die beacuse of Adam. All men who live, do so because of Christ. If you use the whole word you would get that.1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
And, lets pay attn. to context too:In context this says all men who die, die beacuse of Adam. All men who live, do so because of Christ. If you use the whole word you would get that.
The elect. Not the lost.1 Cor 15
The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
ALL resurrect. All have eternal life.12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead,
the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21For since death came through a man,
the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive
Stop dodging, You know what I said, more importantly stop spinning, pointless straw mans are getting us nowhere.Is it heresy to believe that God is the saviour of all men, especially of those who believe? If so why?
I disagree that most cannot agree on what the bible says. Most, I agree, if going verse by verse, would find something they didn't translate the same. But most of the Christian world agrees we need a savior and Jesus is that Savior.
For the most part it is literal vs. allegorical. Those who believe litterally are largely in agreement, those who look at scripture allegorically don't have much basis for agreement.
The majority of Christians, sadly, don't know what they believe, and when you tell them what the bible says they go "Oh Yeah? OK" Among true students of the Word, there are litteralists, and there is everyone else.
First off, it's YOU that has to prove the Bible says whatLet's suppose that Scripture actually does say what you guys think it does.
How does it overcome the contradiction of an eternal hell with a loving, omniscient, omnipotent God?
First off, it's YOU that has to prove the Bible says what
YOU say it does. It does not.
It's verses are twisted and read into saying what they don't say
and you lack any direct teaching of it as doctrine in Revelation
when it gives the chronilogical order of events to the end -
Just wanting to kickstart another discussion of universalism, as controversial as it is.
I'm sympathetic to the movement myself, but not enough to count myself among their number (yet, perhaps). I do find it practically impossible to be joyful if I include the doctrine of hell in my theology. I find it equally impossible to be melancholy if I remove the doctrine of hell in my theology.
I'm currently digging around some of the early (pre-Augustine) church fathers who did not support a doctrine of hell; I'm also looking in to Carlton Pearson's book 'The Gospel of Inclusion'.
Let's talk.
The reason you see it as contradiction is becuz you continue toI'm not out to prove anything, sister. I'm here to attempt to work out a philosophical contradiction (which you have yet to address; only emphasize that you believe the contradiction).
Nothing I'm bothering to go into here.Revelation is a political document, and should not be read as a literal account of the end of the world
Someone pays for sin. Always. If I take your car and total it and you forgive me, you have paid for my sin. Someone always pays. Christ paid a price we could never pay, but a gift cannot be given if not recieved.Tissue;52386485]I'm not out to prove anything, sister. I'm here to attempt to work out a philosophical contradiction (which you have yet to address; only emphasize that you believe the contradiction).
Then you have go to write off parts of alot of books because the Revelation of Jesus Christ is largely the assembly of the end times prophacy from old and new testements.Revelation is a political document, and should not be read as a literal account of the end of the world.
The prerequisite to going to Heaven is believing as John 3:16 says.
Thanks,
TT
The reason you see it as contradiction is becuz you continue to use human philosophy and reasoning rather than accepting that God has a plan that you can't understand.
I used to think my parents were full of it when they'de tell me
that "this hurts me more than it hurts you" when I got a spanking.
I couldn't fathom how they claimed they loved me, then grounded
me or spanked me.
And while being punished doesn't equal Gehenna, the concept is
identical in what we SEE here and what really is in reality.
It's no contradiction whatsoever.
It also shows me our utter apathy and inability to view Sin for
what it really is; how evil it actually is.
MOST of this imo, is becuz people do not even view sin as
God does. or Satan for that matter.
If we can justify sin, we certainly cannot see why God would
have such a severe and permanent judgment for it.
Again tho, MAN'S ERROR - MAN'S FLAW due to corruption
as sinners. This is why a perfect and holy God is judge and
not us.
With that said, sin doesn't just "end" and "go away" without
blood atonement. This was why there was a sacrificial system
in place in the OT.
Those who refuse their only blood atonement, cannot get rid
of that sin any other way once they die. Once they reject
salvation BY FAITH and live by God's teachings, there's no
more hope for their sin to be removed.
Someone pays for sin. Always. If I take your car and total it and you forgive me, you have paid for my sin. Someone always pays. Christ paid a price we could never pay, but a gift cannot be given if not recieved.
God, in His perfect love, demads perfect righteousness. His perfect love could exist in nothing less. Jesus can make us perfectly righteous, but we must be willing.
Perfect love would not be perfect if it destroyed it's self in unrighteousness.
The problem is, we can argue the percieved contradiction of a loving God and torment, but the falicy of temporary, regenerative fire that cleanses is what takes us round and 'round.
Then you have go to write off parts of alot of books because the Revelation of Jesus Christ is largely the assembly of the end times prophacy from old and new testements.
I don't think it is the prophecy you disapprove of, I think this is your problem:
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liarstheir place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Oh, you see sin like God does? What's it like?
Do you? Cause according to all the stuff that's been said thusfar. Universalists belive they see things as God does. Obviously, since they say that eternity is mis-translated.
Not to mention I recall you judging God by saying He is evil if he sends people to Eternity in hellfire.
Once again. Do you see things like God does? Yes, or no?
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