Universalism Was Condemned and Defeated In 553 A.D. At The The Fifth Ecumenical Council

[Andrewn]

They believe that councils become authoritative when they are accepted by the Church as a whole.

So, if you or I reject a certain Council then it cannot become authoritative

 

[hedrick]

So, if you or I reject a certain Council then it cannot become authoritative

It’s a nice thought, but probably what they mean.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

So, if you or I reject a certain Council then it cannot become authoritative

hmm... you're not a part of the church as far as they're concerned. If you're not a orthodox christian then you're a heterodox christian. It's actually as simple as that, a good old dichotomy.
It's kind of like Arius' feelings regarding the ruling at Niccea... who cares what Arius thought ?

 

[Andrewn]

hmm... you're not a part of the church as far as they're concerned. If you're not a orthodox christian then you're a heterodox christian. It's actually as simple as that, a good old dichotomy.

Did the Church have a referendum of all Orthodox people after each council to decide whether to accept or reject the council. Of course not. So, the term "Church as a whole" is basically meaningless.

Reality is that the decision about which councils were "Ecumenical" and which were "Straw" was up to the East Roman Emperor. Admittedly, the emperor allowed himself to be influenced by the Pope of Rome for political reasons.

The "Church as a whole" just means the emperor of the east + the pope of the west.

BTW, what's a Traditional Catholic? is this a Roman Catholic who prefers mass in Latin, or does it mean someone who belongs to one of the Old Catholic denominations?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

So, if you or I reject a certain Council then it cannot become authoritative

Yes, but can you do it infallibly?

It's an easy word to throw around, isn't it?

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Did the Church have a referendum of all Orthodox people after each council to decide whether to accept or reject the council. Of course not. So, the term "Church as a whole" is basically meaningless.

Reality is that the decision about which councils were "Ecumenical" and which were "Straw" was up to the East Roman Emperor. Admittedly, the emperor allowed himself to be influenced by the Pope of Rome for political reasons.

The "Church as a whole" just means the emperor of the east + the pope of the west.

BTW, what's a Traditional Catholic? is this a Roman Catholic who prefers mass in Latin, or does it mean someone who belongs to one of the Old Catholic denominations?

Continued approval is the keyword here aswell as successive communion with the church.
The anglicans and the orthodox kept apostolic succession as did rome, but they left the church through the great schism and through the english reformation.
To participate in communion in the catholic church is a visual way of showing ones adherence to the church, her councils and the magisterium.

Traditional catholic is a loose term that could be filled with different things I suppose. In my case it's a way of showing that I'm a traditional catholic with a great love for the pre-vatican2 era of the church history. So basically I'm just catholic .

 

[Saint Steven]

"If Anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration will take place of demons and of impious men, Let Him Be Anathema.

But what if the decisions of the Council are in disagreement with the Bible?
I suppose you side with tradition over the Bible. Correct?

What do these scriptures say about the fate of "impious men"?
Or the reconciliation of all things? (Col.1:20)

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Philippians 2:5-11
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Andrewn]

What do these scriptures say about the fate of "impious men"? Or the reconciliation of all things? (Col.1:20)

There was an old thread (not in these Forums) titled, "Does 'all' mean "All?'" I used to believe in Apocatastasis now I'm an agnostic about the subject. I believe though that God wants everyone to be saved. And that He is able to do whatever He wants.

 

[Saint Steven]

I remember an old thread titled, "Does 'all' mean "All?'"

Yes. That dealt with this issue.
In reference to Col.1:20, the "all things" is defined in verse 16. See below.
"... things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him."
This obviously includes all humankind.

Colossians 1:16, 20
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

But what if the decisions of the Council are in disagreement with the Bible?
I suppose you side with tradition over the Bible. Correct?

What do these scriptures say about the fate of "impious men"?
Or the reconciliation of all things? (Col.1:20)

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Philippians 2:5-11
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices A Lie.
• Revelation 22:15-16



• Universalism Is A Lie and A Heresy.



.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

But what if the decisions of the Council are in disagreement with the Bible?
I suppose you side with tradition over the Bible. Correct?

What do these scriptures say about the fate of "impious men"?
Or the reconciliation of all things? (Col.1:20)

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Philippians 2:5-11
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Hilarious! Scripture is the written part of tradition. You cannot draw this false dichotomy, it's not honest.
Its like using tradition to rebuke tradition. Its irrational and highly pointless.

 

[Andrewn]

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices A Lie. • Revelation 22:15-16 • Universalism Is A Lie and A Heresy.

Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I now say again: If anyone preaches to you any gospel other than the one you received, let him be anathema!

 

[Saint Steven]

• Universalism Is A Lie and A Heresy.

Damnationism is a lie. The Bible does not support it. The Damnationists (what you call the Church - capital C) gave us a biased translation. Thus practicing a lie.

 

[Saint Steven]

Hilarious! Scripture is the written part of tradition. You cannot draw this false dichotomy, it's not honest.
Its like using tradition to rebuke tradition. Its irrational and highly pointless.

So you are calling me a liar?
My Bible doesn't agree with YOUR tradition.
You didn't address the scriptures given.
You just blew me off with your mocking comments.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices A Lie.
• Revelation 22:15-16



• Universalism Is A Lie and A Heresy.



.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

Hello, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's a standing open invitation: Thirsty in that fire? Sodomy no longer satisfying? Well wash your robes and come on in.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. (Rev 22:21) THE END.
(Translation: they all live happily everafter). Praise the Lord, for with Him there's always hope!

See, God's justice isn't about getting even, it's about setting right. All things. In Christ.

 

[FineLinen]

There was an old thread (not in these Forums) titled, "Does 'all' mean "All?'" I used to believe in Apocatastasis now I'm an agnostic about the subject. I believe though that God wants everyone to be saved. And that He is able to do whatever He wants.

Dear Andrewn: All does indeed radically men all. Our glorious Father does not simply want all mankind Home to His Heart, He willeth it! Take a wee look at thelo in koine. God wills ALL mankind to be saved.

The Will of all mankind prevails!

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Its like using tradition to rebuke tradition. Its irrational and highly pointless.

If written tradition can be used to rebuke oral tradition (it can), then it is not only rational, but imperative. Tradition ought not contradict itself, but it does. Therefore, we lean on the older and less changeable tradition that is the Bible.

 

[hedrick]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

Hello, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's a standing open invitation: Thirsty in that fire? Sodomy no longer satisfying? Well wash your robes and come on in.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. (Rev 22:21) THE END.
(Translation: they all live happily everafter). Praise the Lord, for with Him there's always hope!

See, God's justice isn't about getting even, it's about setting right. All things. In Christ.

I agree that God's justice isn't about getting even. But I think this post has bad exegesis of Rev 22:21. That passage is from what I'd call the epilog to the book. The chronology is a bit hard to be sure about. But it is probably talking about an opportunity in this life.

I think the vision at the beginning of chap 22 does indeed suggest a happy ending. But I wouldn't cite 22:21 this way.

 

[FineLinen]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

Hello, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's a standing open invitation: Thirsty in that fire? Sodomy no longer satisfying? Well wash your robes and come on in.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. (Rev 22:21) THE END.
(Translation: they all live happily everafter). Praise the Lord, for with Him there's always hope!

See, God's justice isn't about getting even, it's about setting right. All things. In Christ.

Dear S.M.: the way into the Tree of Life is through flaming swords swirling in every direction. Those swords of fire are guarding the Tree. No nasty flesh beings enter in without the loss of all they are. Welcome to our God the consuming Fire!

God's justice isn't about getting even, it's about setting right. The radical ALL in Christ Jesus.

 

[Mathetes66]

Matt 23:14,15 Woe to you, scribes & Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter.

15Woe to you, scribes & Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land & sea to win a single convert & when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.