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When it comes to the final fate of other sinners...well, this old sinner only wants to drop whatever stones might be hiding in my own pockets...and pray that God might have mercy on us all...I "find no fault" in that attitude Barrd.
Oh no Sarah, My answer really is wrong, because I've been to their website and 'they believe the bible'. Why, they even have smart lawyers in the family who quote 'the bible' on their website. Why, I almost 'converted' when I read their really, really smart answers for treating homosexuals like they do....NOT.I don't think any of us should.
... Well, Westboro probably would, though.
......................DA said:"Footstool never means 'temple' or 'dwelling place.' "
-- Der Alter
No? Then what does God mean when He repeatedly says throughout the Bible...
"Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool"?
....and what does King David mean when he said for us to worship at God's "footstool"?
(Psalm 99:5 and 132:7)
It doesn't just "seem" more merciful...it 'IS' more merciful.
But that couldn't be. Because if Jesus didn't save the world, then he must have 'missed the mark' according to orthodox thinking....and, if you 'think' about it...even annihilationist thinking.And if Jesus 'missed the mark' why that would make Him a sinner, and that really is a dilemma.
Now that sounds like the majority of non Spirit led/guided Christianity, in their theological conclusions.....IMO.
1CO 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
What 'things' may I ask, needed to be 'reconciled in heaven'?
I "find no fault" in that attitude Barrd.
You know, Sir Barrd, for a long time I worried that God was exactly like the one that cultish and hateful-sounding people like Westboro church members believed in, that they were somehow the ones in the right, with "the truth" and all on their side, but after some times spent dealing with my sickness (which I believe was scrupulosity, sometimes called "the doubting disease") that caused me to worry about things like this, I finally managed to come to the conclusion that, you know what? Who cares? They could be right, and then again they could not, and the Bible has enough support to make God out to be entirely different than the TULIP Calvinist kind of one who, as I remember one of the Phelps' family members saying on camera, created us all just to damn and torture most of us for eternity, and there was literally nothing we could do about it, because Jesus came to save literally only a distinct few, so that the few could praise Him for liking them enough to save them and glorying in the eternal torment of the rest because they believe it is also His glory to doom them to something like that.
And finally I managed to just settle everything this way: you know what? If it's somehow true, there's nothing I could have done about it anyway. This would mean that what I believed to be the Holy Spirit to be guiding me in my heart all this time was a lie and a deception that God predestined me to because He created me to hate me. And again, this kind of God is fatalsitic, so what could I have done or do to change it? I might as well go on living and thinking He is better than that, because if it is wrong, I was literally predestined to it, so I am in fact doing His will, if His will is indeed to hate and throw most of humanity into hell, as the people of Westboro and some other extremists like that believe (not all Calvinists, mind you; just the ones who take the theology to the extreme). And guess what? There's more than enough evidence in the Bible and in my conscience to indicate that He is in fact not like that at all. And I might as well go on hoping and believing in it. Again, if it isn't the Holy Spirit in my conscience but some deceiving demon, then I suppose that whole thing with testing the spirits in 1 John 4 wasn't meant to be taken at face value, and that somehow demons can actually acknowledge Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh to save us, after all. Wouldn't make much sense, though, seeing as verse 2 there straight up says any spirit that acknowledges this is from God, and any spirit that does not is not from God.
Honestly, if universal reconciliation turns out to be true, I totally admit I will take some pleasure in seeing haters like Westboro look on helplessly as those whom they were so eager to insult and condemn enter the Kingdom of Heaven before themselves, sputtering and pouting in disbelief that they ended up being wrong: "B - B - But, ... Gooooood! What about the hellfire and worms gnawing at those wretched homosexuals alive as they scream and lament forever and ever while we get to watch and point with glee?"
And then Jesus would probably turn to them and be like, "What, seriously? What's the matter with you guys? You might need some rehabilitation in that lake of fire over there."
But hey, at least there I am saying that, as much as I dislike the people of Westboro, I still wouldn't wish for eternal torment to befall them. Of course I wouldn't. I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy, ... or Hitler, seeing as he is the most famous subject to decide the ultimate fate on in discussions of UR vs. ECT vs. annihilationism. Hey, everybody wants justice (their version of it) for everyone else who did bad stuff in their life, but themselves. Let's be honest with ourselves, guys. Nearly all of us are consistently like that or have experienced a moment or two of such glaring pride in ourselves. And some people can come up with all the verses they want to try to justify their judgments all for the sake of finger-pointing upon others, but the fact of the matter remains that self-righteous BS was exactly the kind of thing that Jesus constantly got onto the Pharisees for in His time. He most certainly did admonish the adulterous woman to go and sin no more, but I totally don't remember Him ever getting up in the faces of she and other sinners like her. Just the guys who were obviously do-gooders only for show.
Sorry, kind of went off on a lot of aimless tangents there. But I think I've always been kind of obsessive-compulsive like that.
I wonder what God thinks of Westboro Baptists?
Edit:
Just so that you know, it is not "Sir Barrd"....rather it is "Lady Barrd".
Oh, I beg your pardon, Lady Barrd. It's like I never even bothered to look at the gender symbol next to your avatar this whole time, and just immediately assumed you were male simply because of the name that sounds like "bard" (which is what a singer of male gender in so much fantasy fiction is called, right?). My apologies.
............................*peeking around the door*
So, have you guys reached a general consensus yet? Figured God out, yet?
I'm reminded of an old saying"
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
To this I would add,
If you want to make Him double over with helpless hilarity....tell Him His plans...
Der Alte said:"I notice how you totally ignored the definitions of the Hebrew words for footstool that I posted, which I am re-posting here."
--Der Alter
You cannot use definitions for "footstool" from Strong's Concordance or Young's Concordance because they only give a LITERAL meaning. The term "footstool" most often has a figurative meaning, as a colloquialism, metaphor, or idiom, so you cannot find its definition in a concordance of the Bible. In fact, I personally never found even a Bible dictionary that defined it -- even tried to define it.
God has hidden it quite well. So the answer is:
You have to focus on how the word is repeatedly used in the Bible.
That is sometimes the best way to find the true definition of a Greek word or term since the so-called Greek experts don't always agree. So, what is YOUR definition of the term "footstool"?
Haven't heard that yet.
We know the term "feet" means "one's person.
So logically where you place you feet -- on a footstool -- is where you live. It's your "dwelling place"!
Back in ancient Israel, God chose to dwell in the tabernacle (or temple) in Zion, He "desired it for his habitation" (Psalm 132:13; KJV), "as His dwelling place" (same verse, Concordant version). Thus we read...
"We will go into his tabernacle: we will worship at His footstool" (verse 7), meaning His dwelling place.
That's true. But this Footstool Prophecy does eventually include everyone, which is why God repeats this prophecy throughout the Bible over and over. Now, we Christians were at one time 'enemies' of Christ, but we are now the temple of God (II Corinthians 6:16); we are where God dwells (same verse). God's temple on this earth was His footstool (Isaiah 66:1) and now His people, on this earth, are His "footstool" (Matthew 5:35; Acts 7:49).
Likewise, the world with its billions of inhabitants, is counted as Christ enemy (James 4:4), but they too will become Christ's dwelling place, His footstool, when God pours out His holy spirit upon "all flesh" (Joel 2:28) at the Great White Throne judgment!
............................
....and your point?
I'm just putting ideas in your head, but it is the Spirit of truth which can make them revelation truth in your heart. But the only way for us to receive truth from the Spirit, we must hang on loosely to the lies we presently believe. But the religious spirit forces most to cling so tightly to their lies the Spirit is quenched.Thank you, Hillsage.
Darned if you haven't got me nearly convinced that Universalism might be the Lord's "final answer".
[quote=TheBarrd;67396817]My point, Brix, is what I've been saying all along.
We can argue this stuff out till our fingers fall off from typing.
We might even come to some kind of agreement...although I'm not holding my breath.
When the great and terrible day of the Lord gets here...and it will, eventually..God is going to do whatever it is that He has planned to do...
Whatever that is, I am sure that it will be right and just.
And I'd be willing to bet my last Jesus fish bumper sticker that it will be something that none of us ever even imagined...
My point is that, instead of arguing about something we cannot possibly know...we ought to simply trust in God.
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