Universal flood evidence

[FaithT]

Best to base your understanding on the biblical account read in detail. Most are missing much of what is needed to form an accurate picture. Perhaps most important is the fact that a global flood would not leave uniform 'global' evidence; only evidence of local flooding, as is seen in the geologic record.

Why wouldn’t a global flood leave uniform global evidence?

 

[FaithT]

And what is your response to all those who claim that the dating is unreliable?

AIG holds to that theory but considering that so few knowledgeable people agree with them, I have to question their theory.

 

[FaithT]

I Simply don't trust Answers in Genesis when they veer into the domain of science. They have a record cherry picking quotes, of half truths and the occasional outright falsehood. The fact of the matter is that there is no scientific evidence for a worldwide flood but there is plenty of evidence immense local floods particularly hollowing the last ice age. Here is one example:

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 30 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 7600 YBP due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

I’m beginning to think that AIG doesn’t care about evidence or facts.

 

[FaithT]

? OldWiseGuy?

 

[FaithT]

I’m skeptical about AIG when they discuss or write about science, too. I’ve recently become Lutheran LCMS and was referred to AIG several times by an elder who taught a class there.
I’ve been busy asking my pastor thousands of questions about my new faith and Christianity in general. Jury is out as to whether I’ll stay or go with a more scientifically liberal church.
Anyway I was under the impression that my church agreed with AIG but my pastor told me that its not affiliated with the LCMS and isn’t the definitive answer to questions and can definitely be wrong.

I’ve made my decision. I’m staying put. I’d always thought my church endorsed the teachings of AIG but as I already said thats not the case.
My other problem is that lately the message hasn’t touched my heart. But that may change soon. They announced a new upcoming message, plus one for Wednesday online Lenten services (we’ll be in person on Ash Wednesday) that sounded promising. Nothing is perfect even church. But other than that I LOVE my church.
Yesterday I was thinking about going to this non non denominational church but the pastors aren’t even educated in religion. Apparently no Bible school, no seminary.
Trying to get them to tell me that was like pulling teeth but I finally found out. So I’m going to stay where I am.

 

[FaithT]

Why wouldn’t a global flood leave uniform global evidence?

Anyone?

 

[J_B_]

Anyone?

You seem to have made up your mind, so I'm not sure what you want.

 

[FaithT]

You seem to have made up your mind, so I'm not sure what you want.

No, not really. I’m open to learning more and just want to know why wouldn’t a global flood leave uniform global evidence.

 

[FaithT]

So?

 

[J_B_]

No, not really. I’m open to learning more and just want to know why wouldn’t a global flood leave uniform global evidence.

The evidence must be preserved in order to be observed. Though I am not a geologist, my impression is that the conditions were not always right, and so geological evidence is sparse at best. Geology also seems a very subjective, empirical science.

Regardless, all this is predicated upon your apparent assumption that Genesis 6:11-22 refers to a global flood.

 

[FaithT]

The evidence must be preserved in order to be observed. Though I am not a geologist, my impression is that the conditions were not always right, and so geological evidence is sparse at best. Geology also seems a very subjective, empirical science.

Regardless, all this is predicated upon your apparent assumption that Genesis 6:11-22 refers to a global flood.

No, it’s predicated on my hope that it was a global flood like the Bible says.

 

[J_B_]

No, it’s predicated on my hope that it was a global flood like the Bible says.

It's not clear to me the Bible says that. Why do you think it does?

 

[FaithT]

It's not clear to me the Bible says that. Why do you think it does?

Yes, it does say that. It doesn’t say the waters flooded part of the earth, though I wish i was confident it did. It would make the story more believable.
Genesis 6:11-2 through Genesis 7:24.

Genesis 7:24 says The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

 

[FaithT]

It's not clear to me the Bible says that. Why do you think it does?

Why do you think it doesn’t? If you don’t mind my asking, what religion are you? Your profile says Christian, but there are all kinds of Christians.

 

[J_B_]

Yes, it does say that. It doesn’t say the waters flooded part of the earth, though I wish i was confident it did. It would make the story more believable.
Genesis 6:11-2 through Genesis 7:24.

Genesis 7:24 says The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

I don't have a horse in the race either way. I believe Noah was a real person, that there was a flood, and that Noah and his family were the only human survivors. A global flood wouldn't have been necessary for that to happen, though many interpret it that way.

My experiences have taught me the complexity of language and its interpretation, so I try not to presume too much. The text of Genesis is one that is easy to misinterpret, as evidenced by the thousands of different ways people read it.

But you seem more focused on the geological record, so I'm probably not the person to answer your question. Maybe it was a mistake to reply.

 

[J_B_]

Why do you think it doesn’t? If you don’t mind my asking, what religion are you? Your profile says Christian, but there are all kinds of Christians.

I am LCMS.

 

[FaithT]

Why do you think it doesn’t? If you don’t mind my asking, what religion are you? Your profile says Christian, but there are all kinds of Christians.

Why do you think it doesn’t? If you don’t mind my asking, what religion are you? Your profile says Christian, but there are all kinds of Christians.

I don't have a horse in the race either way. I believe Noah was a real person, that there was a flood, and that Noah and his family were the only human survivors. A global flood wouldn't have been necessary for that to happen, though many interpret it that way.

My experiences have taught me the complexity of language and its interpretation, so I try not to presume too much. The text of Genesis is one that is easy to misinterpret, as evidenced by the thousands of different ways people read it.

But you seem more focused on the geological record, so I'm probably not the person to answer your question. Maybe it was a mistake to reply.

The notes at the bottom of my Bible say this:<<<<<<<<< Was the flood a local event or did it cover the entire Earth? A universal flood was certainly possible......
Thus this flood must have either covered the entire earth or destroyed all the inhabitants of the earth.>>>>>>>>>>

Does that mean that the Bible is saying it may have been a regional flood that killed all the people who happened to be living in that region?

 

[FaithT]

I am LCMS.

Me too!

 

[J_B_]

Does that mean that the Bible is saying it may have been a regional flood that killed all the people who happened to be living in that region?

The population of the earth was small at that time. It's likely all of humanity lived in one area.

If you want to know why I'm not certain, it is because of the obvious hyperbole in the text. In Genesis 6:17 God says, "Everything that is on the earth shall die." Yet several other times he says he will "destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven." So, the "everything" doesn't mean literally everything. It doesn't even mean "all flesh", but only that flesh which has the "breath of life". What does that mean? Is it a reference to Genesis 2:7? If so, God is only talking about destroying all people.

That's just a start. But I don't say such things to undermine the Bible. Rather, it's quite the opposite. It's an attempt to peel back the layers and layers of extra stuff people seem to have tacked on.

Regardless, I'm not ruling out a global flood. That may be what happened. But to me it simply doesn't matter.

 

[FaithT]

I invited Daniel9v9 to join us but he isn’t on the forums now so I don’t know if he will or not.