Universal flood evidence

[A. Christian]

Also I know that this is off topic but your tag says flat earther waking up. Were you actually one of the ones who believes the earth was flat?

 

[JackRT]

I mean no offense but some of those who say that it is unreliable are also scientists and mathematicians and educators in multiple fields including nuclear physics. I need more than a list of credentials that (again no offense) anyone can claim to have online.

That is perfectly true and it works both ways on this issue.

 

[JackRT]

Also I know that this is off topic but your tag says flat earther waking up. Were you actually one of the ones who believes the earth was flat?

No, I never was.

 

[A. Christian]

That is perfectly true and it works both ways on this issue.

I have no credentials. And ok cool I don't know what's up with the tag but I'm satisfied.

Anyways could you tell me what would be the results of tectonic plates rapidly moving and creating a universal flood? Whether it actually happened or not that's not what I'm looking for I'm looking for what the results would be if hypothetically it did happen.

 

[JackRT]

See my post #9

 

[A. Christian]

See my post #9

I see your earlier post and I can agree that those conditions would definitely threaten life. That is why some would say all life died except what was on the ark. Im not sure that I completely buy that. However, there are some who believe that earth was covered in water early on.

https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/was-the-earth-ever-totally-underwater.html

 

[JackRT]

I see your earlier post and I can agree that those conditions would definitely threaten life. That is why some would say all life died except what was on the ark. Im not sure that I completely buy that. However, there are some who believe that earth was covered in water early on.

https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/was-the-earth-ever-totally-underwater.html

It is 3/4 covered right now.

 

[A. Christian]

It is 3/4 covered right now.

3/4 isn't completely covered. I mean there is at least three times more water in the mantle than in all the oceans. What if that water was at one point on the surface?

 

[JackRT]

3/4 isn't completely covered. I mean there is at least three times more water in the mantle than in all the oceans. What if that water was at one point on the surface?

Yes, I am aware of that water. To be locked into the rock and buried that deeply that process was likely hundreds of millions if not billions of years ago. Certainly far longer than any human memory.

 

[A. Christian]

Yes, I am aware of that water. To be locked into the rock and buried that deeply that process was likely hundreds of millions if not billions of years ago. Certainly far longer than any human memory.

Again some would argue about the dating methods. Those are irrelevant for what I'm looking for. Could the water cover the earth completely at some point in the past (I don't care at what point)? How did that water get there?

 

[JackRT]

Again some would argue about the dating methods. Those are irrelevant for what I'm looking for. Could the water cover the earth completely at some point in the past (I don't care at what point)? How did that water get there?

If the earth were an absolutely perfect sphere, no mountains or valleys whatsoever, then, yes, the existing water would completely cover the surface. As to where the water came from in the first place, that is a very debatable scientific question.

 

[A. Christian]

I do believe it would be a big ask for me to believe a universal flood happened after there were mountains. I agree there would have to be no mountains. Now the question is could the tectonic plates move rapidly to where the result would be a universal flood complete with tsunamis, earthquakes, and vulcanism releasing yet more water and give rise to the mountains and other geographic features?

 

[sweetycakes1]

I recently looked at Answers in Genesis's evidence for a universal flood. Evidence using fossils and the rock layers. I am still unclear about a few things. Is there anyone here that is familiar with the evidence that could answer a few questions?

Genesis is one of my favorite Bible books.

 

[BroRoyVa79]

Answers in Genesis is a great resource for those wanting a biblical perspective against the pseudo-science that is being propagated by the secular public. All of those here that say otherwise do not take the account in Genesis as literal (if not outright deny essential points of the Christian faith).

I want to reemphasize this. While AiG is not perfect in everything they propose no different than secular science being imperfect, they and Creation Ministries International among many other ministries that use science to try to understand the creation account are great resources for those disillusioned with the secular view of origins.

A. Christian, I'd also like to stress that remember that none of this happened by itself if you are looking for some ideas about how God may have worked within nature supernaturally. The Flood didn't happen by itself so trying to frame it within the realm of possibility as if it only happened by itself and thus all evidence would explain how it would've happened without God is already on the wrong track. Just using that as one example.

I also find it interesting that these same people could look at Mars, for instance, and embrace the idea that there was once a flood there, but they can't embrace that idea on Earth. When I say "look at" they look at it from a distance, look at photographs of its surface geology and compare it to things they see on Earth and theorize there was a global, or as they say megaflood or catastrophic floods.....hmmm.

Again, just using the flood and its denial by secularists and those who agree with them as one example.

Some Sources:
The Great (and Recent) Martian Flood
Remnants of a mega-flood on Mars
Catastrophic Floods Rapidly Carved the Surface of Mars
Ancient Mega-Flood on Mars Revealed in 3D | Space

 

[JackRT]

I want to reemphasize this. While AiG is not perfect in everything they propose no different than secular science being imperfect, they and Creation Ministries International among many other ministries that use science to try to understand the creation account are great resources for those disillusioned with the secular view of origins.

A. Christian, I'd also like to stress that remember that none of this happened by itself if you are looking for some ideas about how God may have worked within nature supernaturally. The Flood didn't happen by itself so trying to frame it within the realm of possibility as if it only happened by itself and thus all evidence would explain how it would've happened without God is already on the wrong track. Just using that as one example.

I also find it interesting that these same people could look at Mars, for instance, and embrace the idea that there was once a flood there, but they can't embrace that idea on Earth. When I say "look at" they look at it from a distance, look at photographs of its surface geology and compare it to things they see on Earth and theorize there was a global, or as they say megaflood or catastrophic floods.....hmmm.

Again, just using the flood and its denial by secularists and those who agree with them as one example.

Some Sources:
The Great (and Recent) Martian Flood
Remnants of a mega-flood on Mars
Catastrophic Floods Rapidly Carved the Surface of Mars
Ancient Mega-Flood on Mars Revealed in 3D | Space

Speaking both as a Christian and as a scientist I can say in all honesty that I find Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries International to be far less than objective. If you are looking for "hard" science, don't look there.

By the way talking of a mega flood is not the same as saying it was world wide. Our planet has experienced a number of mega floods --- the flooding of the Mediterranean Basin some 5,000,000 years ago, the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia some 10,000 years ago and the flooding of the Black Sea Basin 7,600 years ago. There is solid evidence for all three but there is no evidence for a world wide flood. The last flood mentioned probably is the basis for the Gilgamesh Epic and the Flood of Noah.

 

[BroRoyVa79]

Speaking both as a Christian and as a scientist I can say in all honesty that I find Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries International to be far less than objective. If you are looking for "hard" science, don't look there.

Everyone, including yourself, has a bias. At least AiG, CMI and others like them admit their's rather than try to present themselves as unbiased objective researchers.

I respect those on either side who readily admit their bias.

By the way talking of a mega flood is not the same as saying it was world wide. Our planet has experienced a number of mega floods --- the flooding of the Mediterranean Basin some 5,000,000 years ago, the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia some 10,000 years ago and the flooding of the Black Sea Basin 7,600 years ago. There is solid evidence for all three but there is no evidence for a world wide flood. The last flood mentioned probably is the basis for the Gilgamesh Epic and the Flood of Noah.

There is/was a mixture of all statements, mega-floods, catastrophic floods, and global floods in relation to Mars some time ago.
Speaking on evidence. To use the following as an example, with the Missoula Flood, the gentleman who discovered it was ostracized from the scientific community and just recently said scientific community has embraced his discoveries. Point being, even when someone brought solid evidence of a mega-flood here on Earth because at the time it sounded too close to the Bible it was rejected despite the evidence showing it.

You say there is no solid evidence for the world-wide flood. I have seen scientists and researchers take the evidence you would see for local floods and prescribe it to the globe. Seeing the same formations, etc. In other words, interpretation of the data is key.

You choose to believe there is none based on how said evidence is interpreted. More power two you, but we're all looking at the same Earth, same evidence.

Edited for clarity.

 

[trinity80]

The continents did split apart just not a few thousand years ago . That took millions of years. The Boxing Day earthquake and tsunami of 2004 changed the length of the earths day . And at most that moved a few feet . Tectonic plates moving several hundred miles or kilometers that rapidly in a year would have possibly ripped the earth in 2 and certainly would affect the earths rotation (though I haven’t run the numbers I’m not a geologist) .


I agree with a previous poster about Answers in Genesis not being a reliable source of scientific information . And not being reliable is an understatement

Hello hope all is well, maybe you will find this video interesting.
(1) Ten of the Top Scientific Facts in the Bible - YouTube Its short and sweet but I feel the sciencetist explains it well for himself

 

[Mosheli]

I'm not quite sure from reading the posts exactly what the questions/issues are?

I give some evidences for global flood here
Noah’s Flood Local or Global?

In my 1999 paper & later booklet Mythos Atlantis - Historia Pangaea I gave evidences for possible continental shift/sprints (as opposed to drift). But its not online. However I can give a number of evidences of sudden raising of the Andes as opposed to supposed slow raising over thousands/millions of years
Andes raised recently
(though it might not have happened in a continental shift, it might have been crust displacement or near passby of a planet like Mars). As for the Himalayas slowly raised the modern fast dropping of the area surely shows it could have been raised quicker. And the bible says all the mountains were covered by the flood so they must have been lower then.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I only talk to myself when I need expert advice.

When an honest man has been shown to be wrong about an issue, he then has two choices --- he can stop being wrong or he can stop being honest.

Excellent advise

 

[FaithT]

I Simply don't trust Answers in Genesis when they veer into the domain of science. They have a record cherry picking quotes, of half truths and the occasional outright falsehood. The fact of the matter is that there is no scientific evidence for a worldwide flood but there is plenty of evidence immense local floods particularly hollowing the last ice age. Here is one example:

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 30 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 7600 YBP due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

I’m skeptical about AIG when they discuss or write about science, too. I’ve recently become Lutheran LCMS and was referred to AIG several times by an elder who taught a class there.
I’ve been busy asking my pastor thousands of questions about my new faith and Christianity in general. Jury is out as to whether I’ll stay or go with a more scientifically liberal church.
Anyway I was under the impression that my church agreed with AIG but my pastor told me that its not affiliated with the LCMS and isn’t the definitive answer to questions and can definitely be wrong.