Universal flood evidence

[A. Christian]

I recently looked at Answers in Genesis's evidence for a universal flood. Evidence using fossils and the rock layers. I am still unclear about a few things. Is there anyone here that is familiar with the evidence that could answer a few questions?

 

[JackRT]

I recently looked at Answers in Genesis's evidence for a universal flood. Evidence using fossils and the rock layers. I am still unclear about a few things. Is there anyone here that is familiar with the evidence that could answer a few questions?

I Simply don't trust Answers in Genesis when they veer into the domain of science. They have a record cherry picking quotes, of half truths and the occasional outright falsehood. The fact of the matter is that there is no scientific evidence for a worldwide flood but there is plenty of evidence immense local floods particularly hollowing the last ice age. Here is one example:

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 30 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 7600 YBP due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

 

[A. Christian]

I Simply don't trust Answers in Genesis when they veer into the domain of science. They have a record cherry picking quotes, of half truths and the occasional outright falsehood. The fact of the matter is that there is no scientific evidence for a worldwide flood but there is plenty of evidence immense local floods particularly hollowing the last ice age. Here is one example:

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 30 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 7600 YBP due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

I have yet to formulate an opinion on answers in genesis but taking the theory and checking outside sources the evidence does seem to support a universal flood as the continents split apart. The rock layers do support that they were layed down quickly and the fossil do indicate drowning. I believe that there was a universal flood that was created by the continents splitting. My only question is whether or not it was the flood of noah.

 

[Brightmoon]

The continents did split apart just not a few thousand years ago . That took millions of years. The Boxing Day earthquake and tsunami of 2004 changed the length of the earths day . And at most that moved a few feet . Tectonic plates moving several hundred miles or kilometers that rapidly in a year would have possibly ripped the earth in 2 and certainly would affect the earths rotation (though I haven’t run the numbers I’m not a geologist) .


I agree with a previous poster about Answers in Genesis not being a reliable source of scientific information . And not being reliable is an understatement

 

[A. Christian]

The continents did split apart just not a few thousand years ago . That took millions of years. The Boxing Day earthquake and tsunami of 2004 changed the length of the earths day . And at most that moved a few feet . Tectonic plates moving several hundred miles or kilometers that rapidly in a year would have possibly ripped the earth in 2 and certainly would affect the earths rotation (though I haven’t run the numbers I’m not a geologist) .


I agree with a previous poster about Answers in Genesis not being a reliable source of scientific information . And not being reliable is an understatement

Could you possibly explain in more detail what would happen if the plates did rapidly move apart?

 

[dqhall]

Could you possibly explain in more detail what would happen if the plates did rapidly move apart?

The sea floor is spreading about an inch a year along the Mid-Atlantic ridge. Iceland is an example of new crust forming. Elsewhere new oceanic crust is being extruded in spreading zones at the bottom of the sea.

The Himalayas are rising an inch a year. In other areas the earth’s crust is sinking toward the mantle in subduction zones like the Marianas Trench (Pacific). South Pacific islands are sinking.

The fossil record does not support a theory of global flooding. The earth rises and falls. The sea levels rose and fell, but not thousands of feet in the course of 100,000 yrs.

 

[Brightmoon]

Do you remember the earthquake and tsunami that devastated Indonesia? . A small distance (iirc a mile ) of the crust moved a few feet . It changed the length of the earth’s day. You’re talking about the Americas moving away from Africa and Europe, a distance of almost 3 thousand miles . The real average of those plates moving is from a half inch( 1 cm) to about 3 inches at their fastest and that causes enough problems .

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Best to base your understanding on the biblical account read in detail. Most are missing much of what is needed to form an accurate picture. Perhaps most important is the fact that a global flood would not leave uniform 'global' evidence; only evidence of local flooding, as is seen in the geologic record.

 

[JackRT]

We know that small modern slippage of the tectonic plates results in devastating earthquakes and tsunamis. If the Biblical flood of 4300 years ago was caused by the splitting of the continents they would have had to move tremendous distances within just a few years and the geologic events --- vulcanism, earthquakes, tsunamis --- would have been so devastating that life on earth would have been threatened. Plus we know from historic records that:
1. there was no worldwide flood
2. there were no devastating geologic events

 

[OldWiseGuy]

We know that small modern slippage of the tectonic plates results in devastating earthquakes and tsunamis. If the Biblical flood of 4300 years ago was caused by the splitting of the continents they would have had to move tremendous distances within just a few years and the geologic events --- vulcanism, earthquakes, tsunamis --- would have been so devastating that life on earth would have been threatened. Plus we know from historic records that:
1. there was no worldwide flood
2. there were no devastating geologic events

The devastating events happened millions of years before the flood. Most notably the casting down of Lucifer onto a perfect earth, resulting in the less-than-perfect earth we have today.

 

[A. Christian]

The sea floor is spreading about an inch a year along the Mid-Atlantic ridge. Iceland is an example of new crust forming. Elsewhere new oceanic crust is being extruded in spreading zones at the bottom of the sea.

The Himalayas are rising an inch a year. In other areas the earth’s crust is sinking toward the mantle in subduction zones like the Marianas Trench (Pacific). South Pacific islands are sinking.

The fossil record does not support a theory of global flooding. The earth rises and falls. The sea levels rose and fell, but not thousands of feet in the course of 100,000 yrs.

How else do you get mass groups of dinosaurs die at the same time and quickly buried?

 

[A. Christian]

Do you remember the earthquake and tsunami that devastated Indonesia? . A small distance (iirc a mile ) of the crust moved a few feet . It changed the length of the earth’s day. You’re talking about the Americas moving away from Africa and Europe, a distance of almost 3 thousand miles . The real average of those plates moving is from a half inch( 1 cm) to about 3 inches at their fastest and that causes enough problems .

That means that tectonic plates could speed up or slow down the rotation of the earth? I haven't heard of this. Could you provide me with links verifying that the length of the day was changed?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How else do you get mass groups of dinosaurs die at the same time and quickly buried?

God has used destructive flooding many times in the past. Genesis 1 begins with the earth in a flooded condition. Out with the old, in with the new. It's a pattern of ruin/restoration seen throughout the geologic record.

 

[dqhall]

That means that tectonic plates could speed up or slow down the rotation of the earth? I haven't heard of this. Could you provide me with links verifying that the length of the day was changed?

They have radiometric dating of elements in basaltic sea floor that cooled near the spreading zones. They also know the earth’s magnetic poles reversed periodically. Magnetite crystals pointed towards magnetic poles as they crystallized. Geophysical surveys of the sea floor have shown rates of spreading. I have not seen evidence of rapid rates of continental drift. These are things studied by geology majors. History began 5000 years ago. Before this is hearsay, oral tradition, myth and story.

 

[JackRT]

How else do you get mass groups of dinosaurs die at the same time and quickly buried?

There is just such a find in Montana and North Dakota known as the Hell Creek formation.. It dates perfectly to the Chixilub asteroid impact in the Gulf of Mexico some 66 million years ago. The resulting tsunami washed over the continent all the way to Montana were it deposited all the debris it had picked up along the way.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dinosaur-asteroid-evidence-hell-creek-1.5078134

 

[Jonaitis]

Answers in Genesis is a great resource for those wanting a biblical perspective against the pseudo-science that is being propagated by the secular public. All of those here that say otherwise do not take the account in Genesis as literal (if not outright deny essential points of the Christian faith).

 

[A. Christian]

There is just such a find in Montana and North Dakota known as the Hell Creek formation.. It dates perfectly to the Chixilub asteroid impact in the Gulf of Mexico some 66 million years ago. The resulting tsunami washed over the continent all the way to Montana were it deposited all the debris it had picked up along the way.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dinosaur-asteroid-evidence-hell-creek-1.5078134

And what is your response to all those who claim that the dating is unreliable?

 

[JackRT]

And what is your response to all those who claim that the dating is unreliable?

I am a retired scientist, mathematician and educator with a specialty in nuclear physics. They are quite simply wrong.

 

[JackRT]

I am a retired scientist, mathematician and educator with a specialty in nuclear physics. They are quite simply wrong.

 

[A. Christian]

I am a retired scientist, mathematician and educator with a specialty in nuclear physics. They are quite simply wrong.

I mean no offense but some of those who say that it is unreliable are also scientists and mathematicians and educators in multiple fields including nuclear physics. I need more than a list of credentials that (again no offense) anyone can claim to have online.