United Airlines to fire 593 unvaccinated employees

[pitabread]

No we are sharing the difference between the COVID vaccine and the polio or whatever else vaccines. Since the claim is the vaccine should be mandatory like the others are, I'm simply pointing out they are not the same thing.

It's a different vaccine (obviously), but it's still a vaccine.

 

[loveofourlord]

Really!?

I'm religious and I don't think that. By your handle you are religious and you don't believe that.
Is there a something in the vaccine that raises libido or something?

it's that usual Nonsense of, "If we allow kids to avoid HPV there will be no consequence for sex, and they will start having it more." kind of nonsense we see from time to time. I know that's a big part of the catholic push against it.

https://activehistory.ca/2012/07/no...-and-the-history-of-women-children-and-youth/

I know there's been issues like in the UK pushing for the vaccine and such due to such beliefs.

 

[Will Joseph]

it's that usual Nonsense of, "If we allow kids to avoid HPV there will be no consequence for sex, and they will start having it more." kind of nonsense we see from time to time.

I agree that's nonsense. There'a a whole sea of diseases that would keep kids away from sex, if they avoided HPV: HIV, herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, donovanosis, hepatitis- These are just a few from the top of my head. And I've only been informed of the common infections amoung many more uncommon ones. Some of these infections are even becoming resistant to treatment and antibiotics.

 

[Bradskii]

I agree that's nonsense. There'a a whole sea of diseases that would keep kids away from sex, if they avoided HPV: HIV, herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, donovanosis, hepatitis- These are just a few from the top of my head. And I've only been informed of the common infections amoung many more uncommon ones. Some of these infections are even becoming resistant to treatment and antibiotics.

Is there treatment for syphilis? Asking for a friend...

 

[Ceallaigh]

Not good enough. There needs to be imprisonment for vax deniers. Special prisons they can be taken to on trains.

 

[7thKeeper]

Is there treatment for syphilis? Asking for a friend...

If only I had a good Helluva Boss 'Is it a cure for syphilis?' Loona meme right now....

 

[Bobber]

Vaccines can be both: both a preventative measure as well lessening the impact of the disease.

It does this by way of building up antibodies in a manner less risky than the disease itself.

Can you provide a link from the past where vaccines have every been thought of this way and I mean before covid came around. I lived through my whole life basically hearing this,

You get a measles shot so you won't get it.

You get a flue shot so you won't get it

You get a shingles shot so you won't get it.

 

[KCfromNC]

Can you provide a link from the past where vaccines have every been thought of this way and I mean before covid came around. I lived through my whole life basically hearing this,

You get a measles shot so you won't get it.

You might want to listen to more reliable sources :

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) Vaccination | CDC

One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.

Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
​

No vaccine is 100% effective. The goal is to reduce the number of people getting it, which reduces the spread, which in turn continues to reduce the number of people getting the disease.

 

[whatbogsends]

You might want to listen to more reliable sources :

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) Vaccination | CDC

One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.

Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
​

No vaccine is 100% effective. The goal is to reduce the number of people getting it, which reduces the spread, which in turn continues to reduce the number of people getting the disease.

And the efficacy of the current Covid vaccines is well below any of those cited for the MMR vaccination.

Moreover, those diseases don't mutate at anywhere close to the rate of Covid. We have current strains in which the vaccines provide somewhere between 40-80% efficacy, and new strains are appearing. Increased vaccination rates with vaccines of such limited efficacy won't stop the spread or stop new strains from appearing.

Not all vaccines are equally effective. Just because something is called "a vaccine" doesn't mean it's equivalent to something else that was called a vaccine. So much, in fact, that the CDC had to change it's definition of "vaccine" to include the new vaccines in as covered by the terminology.

 

[pitabread]

We have current strains in which the vaccines provide somewhere between 40-80% efficacy, and new strains are appearing. Increased vaccination rates with vaccines of such limited efficacy won't stop the spread or stop new strains from appearing.

However, the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines can substantially reduce the rate of the spread and associated effects of the disease (severe illness, hospitalization, deaths), and reduce the risk of new strains appearing.

Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

Not all vaccines are equally effective. Just because something is called "a vaccine" doesn't mean it's equivalent to something else that was called a vaccine.

Nobody is suggesting that. Vaccines have varying degrees of effectiveness. This has long been known.

 

[pitabread]

Can you provide a link from the past where vaccines have every been thought of this way and I mean before covid came around. I lived through my whole life basically hearing this,

You get a measles shot so you won't get it.

You get a flue shot so you won't get it

You get a shingles shot so you won't get it.

For the most part, this is true. Getting the vaccine reduces the risk of getting the disease. And if enough people in a population get the vaccine, it can significantly reduce the amount of the disease circulating in a population to the point where the risk of contracting it becomes vanishingly small.

A vaccine doesn't have to be 100% perfect for it to be effective.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Peak viral load can potentially be the same. But average viral load is less, and the duration of the time a person carries the virus is reduced. And the risk of contracting the virus is also reduced.


Then do you agree that the vaccine significantly reduces the risk of transmission of the virus?

No, it does not reduce the load; that is false. From 8/21:

"Researchers from the University of Oxford found the viral load reduction can be wiped out by the Delta variant which is now dominant in the UK.

While evidence demonstrates that vaccines significantly reduce hospitalisations and deaths, scientists now believe those infected by the Delta variant can still harbour similar levels of virus to those who are unvaccinated."

Double jabbed carry same viral load of Covid as unvaccinated

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The jab prevents some transmission and prevents some people from contracting the virus. Are you clear on that fact or not?

Already acknowledged several times that older or vulnerable people, as in those with co-morbidities, have complied to a high degree, on recommendations from their doctors. Certainly.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The truth is vaccination prevents infections from being as severe and deadly. That's the truth.

First, vaccines prevent infection. Then when that was proven untrue in this case, it "provided strong protection". Now it "provides protection".

The truth is that we really don't know. Whole groups of vaccinated people are having breakouts, though they aren't dying, for the most part, so that's promising.

Thousands of fully vaccinated people did die, however, so it didn't help them at all. Even the CDC admits this: 4,493 Fully Vaccinated Americans Have Died Of COVID-19: CDC

 

[Desk trauma]

American, Alaska Airlines and JetBlue will require their employees to be vaccinated

American Airlines, Alaska Airlines and JetBlue are joining United Airlines in requiring employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19, as the Biden administration steps up pressure on major U.S. carriers to require the shots.

...

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker told employees late Friday that the airline is still working on details, but "it is clear that team members who choose to remain unvaccinated will not be able to work at American Airlines."

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Nobody says it does. But it significantly reduces the chances of transmission. I'm astonished you didn't know that. And here's some more accurate info for you:

'A recent study of more than 44,000 people in Los Angeles found unvaccinated people were 29 times more likely than vaccinated people to end up hospitalised from COVID-19. The rate of hospitalisation among vaccinated people was 1 per 100,000 people.' I'm vaccinated. What's my risk of catching COVID and passing it on?

Unfortunatey, my brother was one of the tiny proportion who needed hospitalisation after contracting it (in the UK) Thankfully he had received two vaccines but he was still sick enough to spend a week in hospital. If he hadn't been vaccinated I think there would have been a significant chance that he'd no longer be with us. But the hospitals are so overun with those who haven't been vaccinated (see the figures above) that he had to spend 30 hours lying in the ambulance in the hospital car park until a bed became available.

Again, I have zero sympathy for anyone who can't get into a restaurant or a theatre or a bar or who loses their job because they consider their rights to be more important than the health of others. Absolutely zero.

Again, Your "zero sympathy" for others is indeed misdirected...and rather inhumane, actually.

And believe me, I am well-acquainted with the scientific literature as it is evolving on this subject.

I am truly sorry about your brother, who was hospitalized even having had the jabs. Everyone deserves treatment, if they need it.

It's a shame those millions of early sufferers weren't treated with anything, but merely sent home until they couldn't breathe, and had to be brought back.

 

[rjs330]

I agree that's nonsense. There'a a whole sea of diseases that would keep kids away from sex, if they avoided HPV: HIV, herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, donovanosis, hepatitis- These are just a few from the top of my head. And I've only been informed of the common infections amoung many more uncommon ones. Some of these infections are even becoming resistant to treatment and antibiotics.

That may be true to a point. But that doesn't stop us from warning them about the effects of grugs and cigarettes. Education certainly should come with a constant, consistent message of the dangers of promiscuity. It won't stop everyone that's for sure, but it may stop some and that's better than none.

 

[whatbogsends]

However, the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines can substantially reduce the rate of the spread and associated effects of the disease (severe illness, hospitalization, deaths), and reduce the risk of new strains appearing.

Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

Nobody is suggesting that. Vaccines have varying degrees of effectiveness. This has long been known.

Requiring a vaccine which has a 90+% impact on transmission on a non-mutating virus can stop the spread and create herd immunity.

Requiring a vaccine with a 40-80% impact on transmission on a rapidly mutating virus will slow the spread, and will not create herd immunity.

The argument for the former doesn't equate to a rational mandate of the latter, especially in a scenario in which the vaccine manufacturers have legal immunity for any adverse effects of their products at the time of mandate.

 

[pitabread]

While evidence demonstrates that vaccines significantly reduce hospitalisations and deaths, scientists now believe those infected by the Delta variant can still harbour similar levels of virus to those who are unvaccinated."

That quote doesn't exactly specify what they are referring to. Are they referring to peak viral loads or average viral loads? There are different measures of the same thing, so we need to be clear on what they are referring to. Unfortunately, there is no link in that article to the study in question.

(This is also one of the problems with relying on news articles instead of the original studies. Things can and often do get lost in translation.)

Regardless what I said was based on this article here: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says, with reference to this specific study (preprint): Spiral: REACT-1 round 13 final report: exponential growth, high prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 and vaccine effectiveness associated with Delta variant in England during May to July 2021

One massive analysis of Delta transmission comes from the UK REACT-1 programme, led by a team at Imperial College London, which tests more than 100,000 UK volunteers every few weeks. The team ran Ct analyses for samples received in May, June and July, when Delta was rapidly replacing other variants to become the dominant driver of COVID-19 in the country. The results suggested that among people testing positive, those who had been vaccinated had a lower viral load on average than did unvaccinated people.
​

So no, not wrong.

 

[pitabread]

Requiring a vaccine which has a 90+% impact on transmission on a non-mutating virus can stop the spread and create herd immunity.

Requiring a vaccine with a 40-80% impact on transmission on a rapidly mutating virus will slow the spread, and will not create herd immunity.

The argument for the former doesn't equate to a rational mandate of the latter, especially in a scenario in which the vaccine manufacturers have legal immunity for any adverse effects of their products at the time of mandate.

A 40-80% impact on transmission can still radically reduce the number of infections in a highly vaccinated population. This is not an argument for removing vaccine mandates.