Understanding Unorthodox Christians

[RBPerry]

I think it is part of our human nature to first think of what separates/distinguishes us from others, instead of thinking about what we have in common.

That is so true, and it is a shame. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who loves Christ, is a brother or sister in Christ. Jesus said "Love God with all your heart, and love others as yourself", Wesley said "all the rest is just commentary"

I believe it must grieve our Lord to see Christians fighting over doctrinal issues that have little or nothing to do with salvation.

That is why I'm an non denominational unorthodox Christian.

 

[RBPerry]

I think it is part of our human nature to first think of what separates/distinguishes us from others, instead of thinking about what we have in common.

That is so true, and it is a shame. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who loves Christ, is a brother or sister in Christ. Jesus said "Love God with all your heart, and love others as yourself", Wesley said "all the rest is just commentary"

I believe it must grieve our Lord to see Christians fighting over doctrinal issues that have little or nothing to do with salvation.

That is why I'm an non denominational unorthodox Christian.

 

[rick357]

All the rest is commentary....was originaly said by Hillel a jewish teacher from before Jesus birth....fyi

 

[Albion]

That is so true, and it is a shame. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who loves Christ, is a brother or sister in Christ. Jesus said "Love God with all your heart, and love others as yourself", Wesley said "all the rest is just commentary"

I believe it must grieve our Lord to see Christians fighting over doctrinal issues that have little or nothing to do with salvation.

That is why I'm an non denominational unorthodox Christian.

You make a good case there. I don't associate members of non-denominational churches with denominational supremacy or any "one true church" cult mentality. It may seem obvious that a non-denominational church wouldn't have the nature of a denominational congregation, but I'm saying that in practice your point does seem to be correct.

Of course, I have also to say that the other style doesn't come automatically to every church that's denominational. There are many denominations that do not go in for that "ours is better than yours" game.

 

[RBPerry]

There are many denominations that do not go in for that "ours is better than yours" game.

This is very true. I feel that each Christian denomination fills a need in it's members lives. We are all various parts of the body, one part not being more important than others.

Many years ago I spent some time going to many different churches and asked people why they chose xyz church over another. A very small number gave me theological reasons, most were because of family, close to where they live, liked the various programs, like the pastor, even got "like the looks of the building" once. Not one ever said because the Lord led them.
So much for all our theology, just have a fancy building, with lots of programs, and a well spoken and humorous pastor, and make people feel good.

 

[RBPerry]

sorry, double posting

 

[Vanguard PCD]

For sure I do not believe in paraphrasing any of the Word as He says what He means and means what He says.

Are you fluent with ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek? If not, you are reading an English (or language X) translation that may be paraphrased to a certain degree, in order to make sentence structure and grammar work in that language. However, your translation will be missing the cultural and time period idioms. Therefore, you are not getting the entire message as portrayed in the spoken languages during the time of Christ.

An example would be the Hebrew term shamayim. The KJV (and others) translate that term as "heaven" everywhere that it appears. However, it has 3 different meanings, depending on the context it is used in:

1. The dwelling place of God and angels
2. The cosmos (universe)
3. The sky

If you do not know the context and don't understand those ancient languages, and you rely solely on an English translation, what you read might not be what was meant.

 

[Gibs]

Are you saying one must be correct on every subject or they are not saved

We don't and won't learn all, all at once so it means a growing into the Truth and in Him.

However we have no excuse to continue in sin,

 

[RBPerry]

If you do not know the context and don't understand those ancient languages, and you rely solely on an English translation, what you read might not be what was meant.

So what do you suggest? Tell all new believers the must study Greek and Hebrew so they can understand that Christ died for their sins, and that salvation comes from Him. The gospel is pretty simple, it is the theologians that have nothing better to do than argue over insignificant points. This leaves huge stumbling blocks for anyone seeking the Lord. You constantly leave out the power of the Holy Spirit to deal with each individual on a personal level.

In one sense you seemed fixated on pushing your knowledge of other languages that the average believer could care less about. I don't disagree that there are questionable understandings of certain scripture, but those areas have little or nothing to do with the Christian lifestyle.

 

[Gibs]

RBPerry,

The way I do it is run the Greek and Hebrew dictionary with the KJV and one can check out any word translated and will say this, the ole KJV will not lead one astry.

For instance "begat" is,

3205. yalad
dly yalad yaw-lad'
a primitive root; to bear young; causatively, to beget; medically, to act as midwife; specifically, to show lineage:--bear, beget, birth((-day)), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail(-eth, -ing woman).

As in this verse,

1Ch 1:13 And Canaan "begat" Zidon his firstborn, and Heth,

 

[Vanguard PCD]

So what do you suggest?

What I have always suggested...be open minded. Don't get bogged down by all the denominational dogma and focus your attention on the message the Bible presents.

 

[Vanguard PCD]

RBPerry,

The way I do it is run the Greek and Hebrew dictionary with the KJV and one can check out any word translated and will say this, the ole KJV will not lead one astry.

That is where we disagree. The KJV has some erroneous translations and/or transliterations in several verses that actually change the context of specific verses. The changed context can lead to an incorrect belief. Isaiah 14:12 for example.

It is not because the KJV is intentionally try to steer anyone wrong, but rather that the 1611 KJV (and revisions) had very few textual resources available at the time. The 47 scholars that wrote the KJV, all of whom worked for the Church of England, did not have the Dead Sea Scrolls or any other documents that have been recovered thanks to archaeology.

I explain it to people this way...if you were going to teach an astronomy class, would you use a textbook from the 16th century or the 21st century? Obviously the 21st cntury. Why? Because we know so much more now than they did then.

 

[Gibs]

I am a solid KJV believer, it stands the test of time. The rest are paraphrases of men.

Each will no doubt hold to the version that suits their driven in stakes of theology!

 

[ron4shua]

Greetings Saints , great exchange of mélange thought .

I look back at my sojourn in this earthly plane . I can see vividly the monumental wisdom in , "
9 By whom doth He teach knowledge? And by whom doth He cause to understand the report? The weaned from milk, the removed from breasts,

10 For rule [is] on rule, rule on rule, line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,

11 For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Doth He speak unto this people.

12 Unto whom He hath said, `This [is] the rest, give ye rest to the weary, And this -- the refreshing:' And they have not been willing to hear, "

If I'd been flashed with the Scriptural truths I've been blessed with the last 60 years .
I'm sure it would have short circuited my thinker . The miraculous part of my feeble wanderings , every time I pick up Scripture it's like consuming it for the first time . I recognize the words of the versions , but I marvel what I see I had not previously .
I stopped marking my Holy Writ in the late Eighties , when I noticed I was underlining , highlighting the last verses of two pages with yet a different color . Looking like a many colored patchwork quilt .

Each of us are in a one room class , being blessed with the inclination to Worship The Ultimate EGO . With growing insight to lay ours down . The more honestly pursued , the more lovingly the gift .

23 this one, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, being given out, having taken by lawless hands, having crucified -- ye did slay;

The paramount prerequisite essential bit of understanding is simple , The Good News .

In my humble learning a tad more every day , opinion .

The servant ron .

 

[Vanguard PCD]

I am a solid KJV believer, it stands the test of time. The rest are paraphrases of men.

Please explain why you think the rest are paraphrases.

There are some translations that are highly paraphrased, but then there are some that are extremely literal in their translation. That is called formal equivalence. The NASB is widely considered to be the most literal translation in English among Christian scholars. Others are also very literal, such as the NRSV, ESV and YLT.

 

[Gibs]

Please explain why you think the rest are paraphrases.

There are some translations that are highly paraphrased, but then there are some that are extremely literal in their translation. That is called formal equivalence. The NASB is widely considered to be the most literal translation in English among Christian scholars. Others are also very literal, such as the NRSV, ESV and YLT.

Because I have done the test of seeing the meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek and in many verses and they don't don't give the right meaning.

Gail Riplinger went to work and wrote up a book on that very thing and it is appalling to me that any would attempt these new so called versions of the Bible.

She proves to any reader that the KJV is way out front in accuracy as she lays out the verses of them all.

Run the KJV with the Hebrew and Greek dictionary and see for yourself!

The Word of God must not be changed from what the original manuscripts state from the original language.

 

[Vanguard PCD]

Because I have done the test of seeing the meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek and in many verses and they don't don't give the right meaning.

Gail Riplinger went to work and wrote up a book on that very thing and it is appalling to me that any would attempt these new so called versions of the Bible.

She proves to any reader that the KJV is way out front in accuracy as she lays out the verses of them all.

Run the KJV with the Hebrew and Greek dictionary and see for yourself!

The Word of God must not be changed from what the original manuscripts state from the original language.

Not turning this into a KJV thread, but...

Funny because I too have studied the Hebrew and Greek (and often quote their meanings here). I grew up on the KJV as a Southern Baptist. I now refuse to use it because of its errors in translation.

As for the original manuscripts, you refer to what is called the Autographs. They have long since been lost or destroyed, for the better part of 2,000 years. None exist. All we have are copies of copies. No translation can make the claim of being the exact "Word of God" per the Autographs.

 

[Ironhold]

Mormons

Actually, the LDS faith has produced more than a few scientists and scholars over the years, ranging from Dr. Philo T. Farnsworth (the man credited with developing the modern concept of television) to James E. Talmage (a geologist who was later tapped to become a high-ranking member of the clergy) to Henry Eyering (who pioneered a new field of physics).

In that sense, it's not correct to say that the church is in opposition to science.

 

[GivingMyAll4Him]

Not turning this into a KJV thread, but...

Funny because I too have studied the Hebrew and Greek (and often quote their meanings here). I grew up on the KJV as a Southern Baptist. I now refuse to use it because of its errors in translation.

As for the original manuscripts, you refer to what is called the Autographs. They have long since been lost or destroyed, for the better part of 2,000 years. None exist. All we have are copies of copies. No translation can make the claim of being the exact "Word of God" per the Autographs.

I've been reading these things you've been posting, and find that you and I think similarly about so many things. I started to think that you're probably a pretty great guy...

...until I saw that you're a LIBERTARIAN, and wrote you off completely.

(I am kidding, of course!)

 

[timewerx]

Not turning this into a KJV thread, but...

Funny because I too have studied the Hebrew and Greek (and often quote their meanings here). I grew up on the KJV as a Southern Baptist. I now refuse to use it because of its errors in translation.

As for the original manuscripts, you refer to what is called the Autographs. They have long since been lost or destroyed, for the better part of 2,000 years. None exist. All we have are copies of copies. No translation can make the claim of being the exact "Word of God" per the Autographs.

I often check the Greek words of NT via Perseus Digital Library. I tried to use the different translations together to try match it with mainstream dogmas according to its context.

I made several posts in the past showing these translations from three different sources (perseus, biblehub, and google) if possible

But contradictions still exist even in the Greek manuscripts our current Bible has been translated from.