Adam
you said.
Lets get back to business
First of all yes, the Mishnah was not written for over a hundred years following Christ. But the laws that are found in the Mishnah were known orally and evolved over centuries prior to Christ. Where else was I to tell you that they could be found?
I am aware of what the passage says, that does not mean it is what Paul meant. I did not put the emphasis on the single word handwriting, you did. Let me explain
this was the ONLY use of that word to be found. Therefore we do not have a way of checking its contextual usage with other times Paul used it or other NT writers for that matter. What we do have is many scholars of ancient Greek will tell you that is an inferior translation. Todays scholars have much more material and resources to call from than did the translators of the KJV. As will be evident if you check various Bible translations of that passage. Even if you check Strongs definition it will be referred to as a certificate of debt. In our modern language English, an IOU.
One translation that puts it quite well is the NASB
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"having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
The oral laws (which became the Mishnah), were considered by the very influential Pharisees and other religious leaders to be as valid as the written laws. If my memory serves me correctly they even believed that they were passed down to Moses and so on and so forth down to them. Perhaps they felt that Moses ran out of material to write upon, who knows? The bottom line is I do not base my interpretation of that passage on a single word, but instead upon the context of the entire chapter, book, and the rest of all the scripture balanced together in harmony.
Thus, they deemed their personal ordinances to be a sin as much as Gods laws. Therefore where there is sin there is a certificate of debt that must be dealt with.
Here is a dictionary definition of certificate of debt
1certificate \(')ser-"ti-fi-ket\ noun [ME certificat, fr. MF, fr. ML certificatum, fr. LL, neut. of certificatus, pp. of certificare to certify] (15c)
1 : a document containing a certified statement esp. as to the truth of something; specif : a document certifying that one has fulfilled the requirements of and may practice in a field
2 : something serving the same end as a certificate
3 : a document evidencing ownership or debt <a certificate of deposit>
(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved
So as you can plainly see whether we use handwriting of ordinances or certificate of debt the meaning is still the same. It is dealing with something that was written. Not something that was spoken. That single word as you call it is the key word to the entire meaning from 2:14 to 2:23 But maybe you do not use dictionaries either.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This certificate of debt was blotted out by being nailed to the cross. now if you hold the position that it was the oral law that was nailed to the cross then that means the entire Christian world is wrong and you are right then also we are way behind on sacrifices because the crucifixion had nothing to do with the law of Moses.
You make much of going point by point when demanding it from others but when it is your turn to apply it to yourself you disregard it.
You made a lot of noise when I first posted Ignatius and Romans
I expect no one to take my word as teacher or anything, the Bible facts stand for themselves either it backs me or it doesn't. What I said about your Gal. 4 and Rom.14 references were dead on. It is not my opinion but a fact, you did try to pass off a single verse out of a whole chapter whose subject was specifically referring to feasting and fasting days ONLY! I am sure as ever, that you knew fully well there was no mention of the Sabbath or anthing to do with any of his ten commands yet you tried to pass it off as applicable anyway...this makes your actions deceitful, unobjective and dangerous to those who have a lesser grasp on the scriptures. This as well you did with Ignatius, you placed a single passage as an attempt to show that Sabbath keeping was done away with at that time, surely hoping I was ignorant as to what else he continued to say. Which told us specifically that he and the others were still keeping the Sabbath. Matter of fact he instructed it!
but after I met your demands not a peep out of you with the exception that " I do not read commentaries" Which means all you do is make accusations regardless of if you know the facts or not but state it as fact solely upon your own "genius".
You are one of those who insist that there are 10 commandments today and not 9 and you are right but for the wrong reasons.
The Thadman said it already that commandments ,all 10, were not abolished at the cross and that is true. But all 10 did change.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Another question you have ignored in our "Point by Point" discussion is when did the sabbath end in the garden?
Ge 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Is this a 24 hour sabbath? Did God start creating again the very next day? Or was it finished. That rest was meant to last forever but the fall of man broke that Sabbath. Where is our rest? Is it the Sabbath?
Mr 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
If you want to cling to that cold lifeless piece stone for your rest well be my guest. As for me I will cling to Jesus and the rest he gives.
Can you show me the verse in the Bible where God states the Sabbath is a memorial to creation? seriously, because I can not find it.
Is it a memorial to creation or is it a memorial to Jesus Christ who was to come and give us his rest? The Entire law was a shadow not just certain sections.
Have you stopped to think that many of the first gentile Christians were slaves with pagan masters? Do you think their masters had any concern for a slaves wishes to keep the sabbath or any other day for that matter?
The Fourth commandment was also the day the Jews were to reflect on God. For us today it is called worship.
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
This means today that even a simple prayer at the table is considered worship. Remember in the old testament the sweet savors of the meat offerings would come up to God to be smelled?
Re 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb,
having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
We have already received spiritual rest in Jesus and now we await the the fulfillment of the physical rest that is to come.
Again there is nothing wrong with worshipping on the Sabbath if the worship is in spirit and truth. Nobody is telling you to stop.
But you refuse people the right they have to make a choice through their own liberty in Christ. But my attitude toward you is you cling to your rock and I will cling to mine. But to me you are simply a man who is dancing with out music.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
yours in Christ
deu58
