Understanding key differences: Christian conservatism vs. Christian nationalism

[frienden thalord]

I question the authenticity of the sources and website for this story.

my friend , these days i seriously question the sanity of this world . for more info i will happily explain that in PRIVATE
if ya know what i mean . cause believe you me if i say it here FEATHERS gonna be RUFFLED big time .

 

[Hans Blaster]

I question the authenticity of the sources and website for this story.

There is literally an embedded video of the whole statement on a stage at some kind of event. (The kind that RWW tracks.)

 

[essentialsaltes]

I question the authenticity of the sources and website for this story.

As Hans notes, the video is quoted on that site.

The entire hour and half video is here:

Panel Discussion: Christian Nationalism, Women in Politics, & Jewish Influence on American Society​

New Christendom Press
Pastors Joel Webbon, Brian Sauvé, J. Chase Davis, and Dr. Joe Rigney sit down with Dr. Stephen [author of The Case for Christian Nationalism] Wolfe at the 2024 New Christendom Press Conference to discuss a range of topics, including Christian Nationalism, Allie Beth Stuckey and women who fight in the culture war and politics, and the Zionist influence on American politics and culture.

 

[lifepsyop]

It comes back to:
What is the alternative to democracy

Christianity

 

[lifepsyop]

Poor guy. He thinks the Kingdom of God is comprised of WASP.

Yea, a Christian who wants to live in a Christian community. Crazy, right?

Funny thing is I bet his biggest critics all live in relatively high-trust WASPy areas...

The biggest proponents of ethnic and cultural diversity tend to live in gated communities. I'm now recalling how Martha's Vineyard had their tiny influx of immigrants bussed out by the military within 48 hours. In real life, nobody actually wants the "open society" that they claim is so wonderful for everyone else. But in the meantime, they can pretend to be ultra-virtuous by calling everyone who opposes it racists.

 

[BCP1928]

Yea, a Christian who wants to live in a Christian community. Crazy, right?

Funny thing is I bet his biggest critics all live in relatively high-trust WASPy areas...

The biggest proponents of ethnic and cultural diversity tend to live in gated communities. I'm now recalling how Martha's Vineyard had their tiny influx of immigrants bussed out by the military within 48 hours. In real life, nobody actually wants the "open society" that they claim is so wonderful for everyone else. But in the meantime, they can pretend to be ultra-virtuous by calling everyone who opposes it racists.

You're confusing the Christian faith with Christian "culture."

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The biggest proponents of ethnic and cultural diversity tend to live in gated communities.

Prove it.

 

[BCP1928]

What's interesting is the assumption that people live in gated communities because they want no contact with ethnic and cultural diversity.

 

[lifepsyop]

You're confusing the Christian faith with Christian "culture."

Little distinction as far as I can tell... Christian faith necessarily leads to Christian culture. The apostles spent a lot of time writing about it.

 

[wing2000]

Little distinction as far as I can tell... Christian faith necessarily leads to Christian culture. The apostles spent a lot of time writing about it.

Were the apostles writting about the culture of the church or culture at large?

 

[lifepsyop]

Were the apostles writting about the culture of the church or culture at large?

Both I think... the culture of the church and how the church is to regard and limit their interaction with culture at large.

For example, a Christian household or community is expected to raise their children up in Christian faith and obedience.... NOT deliver their children over to the education system of "Rome"...
Christian community is universally open to all people to join it... and yet that society itself in terms of what it tolerates is very closed.

Of course, modern western postwar consensus Christianity doesn't resemble the apostles' teachings in the slightest.

 

[RDKirk]

I truly believe that there is a very distinct difference.

This is the same problem black people deal with, and we see "traditional" gay people (and even "traditional" trans people) dealing with it now with regards to trans activism.

"We're not all like them."

The problem, though, is that we who are not like them don't disavow them as clearly, loudly, and frequently as we need to.

 

[BCP1928]

Both I think... the culture of the church and how the church is to regard and limit their interaction with culture at large.

For example, a Christian household or community is expected to raise their children up in Christian faith and obedience.... NOT deliver their children over to the education system of "Rome"...
Christian community is universally open to all people to join it... and yet that society itself in terms of what it tolerates is very closed.

Of course, modern western postwar consensus Christianity doesn't resemble the apostles' teachings in the slightest.

Whatever that is, but neither does Christian nationalism.

 

[RDKirk]

On the subject of inappropriately sexualizing kids:

My daughter is 3. She's into many of the same things that other 3 year old girls are, including Disney. One of her current favorites is Sleeping Beauty, which I've now seen part of at least 50 times. If you're unfamiliar, part of the story is that Princess Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) is betrothed to a Prince Phillip, whom she has never met, but to whom she is to be married shortly after her 16th birthday. The night before her birthday, their fathers, King Hubert (Phillip's dad) and King Stefan are having dinner together, and at this dinner, King Hubert makes a number of comments about getting the two kids married ASAP so they can get to making grandbabies because, in his words, he and Stefan are "not getting any younger".

This is a guy joking about his son boinking an underaged girl to the father of the underaged girl. In a classic kids movie.

Another favorite of my daughter's, The Little Mermaid in which Ariel falls in love with and marries Prince Eric.

That pattern is repeated throughout many many Disney and Pixar movies:
Snow White: Awoken by a kiss from Prince Charming, whom she marries
Bell: Falls in love with, and presumably marries, the Beast
Cinderella: Falls in love with, and marries, Prince Charming
Jasmine: Falls in love with, and marries, Aladdin
Mulan: Falls in love with and marries Li Shang
Tiana: Falls in love with Prince Naveen (after some love triangle business)
Rapunzel: Marries Eugene Fitzherbert
Pocahontas: Falls in love with and marries John Smith
Anna: Falls in love with Prince Hans and then later Kristof (whom she subsequently marries)
Up: Carl and Ellie fall in love, get married, and live an entire life together.

Heterosexual love in the Disney/Pixar universe is not even exclusive to human characters. The Lady and the Tramp features two dogs falling in love and Wall-E features robots.

So, to bring it back around, how is none of that sexualizing kids (after all, hetero sex is sex, too), but teaching about lgbtq issues in schools is?

All of them were old enough to marry and did, in fact, "marry before carry." They were not displayed as sexualized children...sex is still shown as being for people old enough to marry.

Edit: And the fact is still that non-heterosexual relationships are still such a small minority that statistically it takes more than 11 examples to run into one.

 

[RDKirk]

A republic has the power in democratic representation behind it.

What good is a constitution if it's 250 years old? Society and its values change. You think if the US is still around in 700year the original constitution would still be a viable document?

It does change, not only with regard to amendments but also in regards to court interpretation.

 

[wing2000]

Both I think... the culture of the church and how the church is to regard and limit their interaction with culture at large.

For example, a Christian household or community is expected to raise their children up in Christian faith and obedience.... NOT deliver their children over to the education system of "Rome"...

...and if Christian parents did just that, there would be no objection from a secular society. Indeed that is the beauty of a pluralistic America.

Christian community is universally open to all people to join it... and yet that society itself in terms of what it tolerates is very closed.

Agreed. Jesus had a lot to say about the religious leaders of his day on that topic.....

Of course, modern western postwar consensus Christianity doesn't resemble the apostles' teachings in the slightest.

I'm not sure there is a postwar consensus. In my view, there are churchs who continue to be faithful to the words of Jesus. THere are many more who have turned their back on the central message of Jesus.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Christian Nationalist Pastor Joel Webbon Apparently Traumatized By Non-Christians In His Neighborhood​

I note that Webbon is one of the authors of this Christian Nationalism manifesto that Hammster shared in another thread:

The Statement on Christian Nationalism & the Gospel

CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM is a set of governing principles rooted in Scripture’s teaching on Christ’s rule as supreme Lord and King of all creation, Who has ordained civil magistrates with delegated authority to be under Him, over the people, to order their ordained jurisdiction by punishing evil...

www.statementonchristiannationalism.com

Article IV: The Definition of a Nation​

WE AFFIRM that a nation is not merely an idea, abstract principle, or ideology but tangibly defined by a particular body of people in a particular place. We affirm that a particular people are necessarily bound together by a shared culture, customs, history, and lineage while sharing common interests, virtues, languages, and worship.

They define a nation (our nation!) by 'lineage' and religion. (and language customs yadda yadda)

 

[essentialsaltes]

I note that Webbon is one of the authors of this Christian Nationalism manifesto that Hammster shared in another thread:

Also a whiff of Sovereign Citizen.

We deny that, solely by virtue of their claims to authority or the claims of those who support them, any human or group of humans who claim to be civil authorities are, in actuality, recognized by God to be civil authorities.

'God doesn't approve of seatbelts, therefore you are not a policeman and have no authority.'


We affirm that lesser magistrates may and sometimes must disobey a lawless higher magistrate to obey God.

Oh, spiffy.

 

[lifepsyop]

...and if Christian parents did just that, there would be no objection from a secular society. Indeed that is the beauty of a pluralistic America.

this makes the situation all the more worse, since we have the freedom to homeschool our children and yet most church leaders do not shepherd their flock in that direction and away from the secular education system.

I'm not sure there is a postwar consensus. In my view, there are churchs who continue to be faithful to the words of Jesus. THere are many more who have turned their back on the central message of Jesus.

a postwar consensus church means all emphasis is always on the individual at the expense of the community or body.

one example of this is how Christians today now have to live in a society with 24/7 readily accessible pornography, anywhere, anytime. A Christian society would strike that level of pornography from their midst but a postwar church of atomized individuals in the open society do not have such guidance over their own communities. It would be "fascist" and "authoritarian" to limit peoples' "free speech" to mass produce and distribute pornography.... and the modern church respects their liberty to do so, even if frowning upon their use of that liberty.

Simply put, in a Christian society, the production and distribution of pornography would be illegal. But no such society exists under the 20th century postwar consensus.

 

[A2SG]

I'm now recalling how Martha's Vineyard had their tiny influx of immigrants bussed out by the military within 48 hours.

No, that isn't what happened. Putting aside that DeSantis and that bunch lied to the immigrants about jobs being provided for them, the citizens of Martha's Vineyard did not know they were coming, and were not prepared. They did provide what they could, "Everything from beds to food to clothing to toothbrushes, toothpaste, blankets, sheets. I mean, we had some of it ... but we did not have the numbers that we needed." Also, the falsely promised jobs simply weren't available, since most of those jobs on Martha's Vineyard are seasonal, and at the time the immigrants were sent, the season was over.

Rather than being "bussed out by the military," Governor Baker helped them voluntarily relocate to where support services, similar to those they were falsely promised, existed.

All in all, this tactic worked about as well as the reverse Freedom riders stunt of the 1960s. Just like then, it was a crass attempt to manipulate people who were in desperate situations to further a political goal...and it backfired.

-- A2SG, just goes to show how some people refuse to learn from history....