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Understanding key differences: Christian conservatism vs. Christian nationalism

iluvatar5150

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All of them were old enough to marry and did, in fact, "marry before carry." They were not displayed as sexualized children...sex is still shown as being for people old enough to marry.

Those movies generally aren't targeted at people 16+. They're targeted at kids quite a bit younger, which is what I understand to be most of the complaints about LGBTQ material (i.e. "why is <insert title here> in the elementary/middle school library?").

I'd also add that, while those characters may have been old enough to marry in the settings of the films, it is not true that they were all old enough to marry at the times the films were released. Off the top of my head, Aurora and Ariel were both 16 in the films, an age at which marriage is/was illegal in roughly half of states and permissible in the other half only under special conditions.
 
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Pommer

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Christian Nationalist Pastor Joel Webbon Apparently Traumatized By Non-Christians In His Neighborhood

“I walk around my neighborhood and it’s not that there are [just] different shades of white and brown,” he added. “No, it’s like full, straight-up Hindu garb at our neighborhood swimming pool that my daughter is asking [about and] I’m trying to explain.”

“I don’t even know what country I’m in, in my own neighborhood,” Webbon declared. “I don’t know where I am.”

“When we go on a family walk, the number of Pakistanis, Hindus, [there are] all these different not just ethnicities but religions with visible religious outfits on,” Webbon griped. “And the same thing when we go to Costco. I’m like, ‘Where am I?'”

“We’ll go on a family walk and every now and then we’ll pass by, you know, a white family that’s a man and a woman and has more than one kid,” he continued. “And every time I see it, I’m like, I don’t want to be this way but I feel this small sense of relief. Like, ‘I I see you. I’m glad you’re one of my neighbors.'”
Gee, how will they cope?
 
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lifepsyop

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No, that isn't what happened. Putting aside that DeSantis and that bunch lied to the immigrants about jobs being provided for them, the citizens of Martha's Vineyard did not know they were coming, and were not prepared. They did provide what they could, "Everything from beds to food to clothing to toothbrushes, toothpaste, blankets, sheets. I mean, we had some of it ... but we did not have the numbers that we needed." Also, the falsely promised jobs simply weren't available, since most of those jobs on Martha's Vineyard are seasonal, and at the time the immigrants were sent, the season was over.

Rather than being "bussed out by the military," Governor Baker helped them voluntarily relocate to where support services, similar to those they were falsely promised, existed.

You can dress it up however you like. The migrants were almost immediately removed, and it didn't look like they had a choice except to be "helped" out of Martha's Vineyard by the military.

Interesting that your excuse for Martha's Vineyard is "lack of resources", and yet when average Americans use that reasoning, they are called evil racists.

It was only like 50 migrants!... Martha's Vineyard is one of the wealthiest areas in the USA and yet those people were cleared out in 48 hours.

"Mass-immigration for thee, but not for me."
 
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BCP1928

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Those movies generally aren't targeted at people 16+. They're targeted at kids quite a bit younger, which is what I understand to be most of the complaints about LGBTQ material (i.e. "why is <insert title here> in the elementary/middle school library?").

I'd also add that, while those characters may have been old enough to marry in the settings of the films, it is not true that they were all old enough to marry at the times the films were released. Off the top of my head, Aurora and Ariel were both 16 in the films, an age at which marriage is/was illegal in roughly half of states and permissible in the other half only under special conditions.
I'm not sure how that would sexualize children, most of them know what's going on. If they're Christians, they should know that Mary was probably about 14 when she had Jesus and that knowledge doesn't "sexualize" them.

But come to think of it, I don't even know what it means to sexualize a child.
 
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RDKirk

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I'm not sure how that would sexualize children, most of them know what's going on. If they're Christians, they should know that Mary was probably about 14 when she had Jesus and that knowledge doesn't "sexualize" them.

But come to think of it, I don't even know what it means to sexualize a child.
Haven't heard of the Netflix movie "Cuties," have you?
 
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A2SG

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You can dress it up however you like. The migrants were almost immediately removed, and it didn't look like they had a choice except to be "helped" out of Martha's Vineyard by the military.
Because Martha's Vineyard wasn't prepared for them, and because DeSantis and company lied to them about preparations having been made for them.

Just like in the 60s with the Reverse Freedom Rides.

Interesting that your excuse for Martha's Vineyard is "lack of resources", and yet when average Americans use that reasoning, they are called evil racists.
Martha's Vineysrd is a small island with a mostly seasonal economy. Massachusetts has resources elsewhere that could help them, and Governor Baker made thst happen. The citizens of Martha's Vineyard did what they could until then, though. They didn't lie to them and dump them elsewhere without telling them where they were going.

It was only like 50 migrants!... Martha's Vineyard is one of the wealthiest areas in the USA and yet those people were cleared out in 48 hours.
Yup. And you were shown the reasons why.

"Mass-immigration for thee, but not for me."
Not when they're lied to and unceremoniously hijacked somewhere unbeknownst and unprepared, no.

But resources were found that could help, and they were provided. Those resources just weren't on Martha's Vineyard.

-- A2SG, interesting that you have zero condemnation for DeSantis and his illegal human trafficking....
 
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RDKirk

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Because Martha's Vineyard wasn't prepared for them, and because DeSantis and company lied to them about preparations having been made for them.

Just like in the 60s with the Reverse Freedom Rides.
Not "just like."

In truth, the federal government "catch and release" policy should have come with federal action to disperse the illegal immigrants to other areas of the country. It is certainly patently unfair to force the border states to handle the social repercussion of federal policy.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I'm not sure how that would sexualize children, most of them know what's going on.
However, the standards applied by the Right to the LGBTQ community, and to Trans individuals in particular, imply that the mere normalization of non-hetero relationships and non-cis gender identities constitutes "grooming" and sexualizing of children.

To be clear: I don't apply this standard personally. But when their anti-LGBTQ standards are applied to cis/hetero content, it's clear that the Right has been turning a blind eye to other examples of cis/hetero "sexualization" for quite a long time. King Hubert (Aurora's father-in-law-to-be in the 1959 Sleeping Beauty) is especially eager for the two kids to get down to business, and King Stefan's (Aurora's father) pushback has nothing to do with that being creepy, but rather the fact that he hasn't gotten a chance to spend time with the daughter he hasn't seen in nearly 16 years.
 
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RDKirk

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However, the standards applied by the Right to the LGBTQ community, and to Trans individuals in particular, imply that the mere normalization of non-hetero relationships and non-cis gender identities constitutes "grooming" and sexualizing of children.

To be clear: I don't apply this standard personally. But when their anti-LGBTQ standards are applied to cis/hetero content, it's clear that the Right has been turning a blind eye to other examples of cis/hetero "sexualization" for quite a long time. King Hubert (Aurora's father-in-law-to-be in the 1959 Sleeping Beauty) is especially eager for the two kids to get down to business, and King Stefan's (Aurora's father) pushback has nothing to do with that being creepy, but rather the fact that he hasn't gotten a chance to spend time with the daughter he hasn't seen in nearly 16 years.
Does Disney actually stipulate their ages in the movie for pre-teen viewers to realize it?
 
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BCP1928

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Wait until they find out people like *us* live in their neighborhood, looking just like ordinary white people.
It's too late, they already know, because Disney has been an anti-Christian subversive organization for some time. You have to go back to 1956, The zenith of the American Dream, the year it began to fade. Back in those days Italians weren't considered entirely “white” people. Besides, they were Roman Catholics, not really Christians and subversive of real true American values. Us high school boys were warned off ethnic Catholic girls, swarthy evil succubi charged with stealing our souls for the Pope. Of course we didn’t actually know any Catholic girls, they mostly went to their own schools and our parents would never socialize with theirs, but they warned us anyway. Then, in 1956 Disney put a tv show called The Mickey Mouse Club on the air. One of the stars of the show was a young Italian American named Annette Funicello. She was a revelation. All across the country millions of teenage boys took one look at Annette and we knew at once that we had been lied to about Catholic girls. And if we had been lied to about that, what else were we being lied to about? Plenty, as it turns out. About Black people and other minorities, about being drafted to fight a war no one could win, about many, many other things. We’re still being lied to, but perhaps some of us know better now.

Try to imagine yourself as a white Protestant 16 year old boy back in the ‘50s. This is Annette. You met her at a party you weren’t really supposed to go to. She likes you and hopes you will ask her to the Junior Prom. Your parents and your Pastor say no, don’t do it, it’s a trap.

But it’s your call. Good luck, kid.

AD_4nXd6twPqilew2WBnXGKeliEN6TMJolSSqgQSxaeqdhg4KJ0xlvKySAjo7vGrHyOJSfFrpHd4MvHd3EB8UsZXBmzIuHtH3URTBBWDQdfd6n_xS_WnjidZOt4a4vZY5sbyPKI3chuAmfG1t6-dLrCa3OvgoGuy
 
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NxNW

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Unless you are talking about conservatives wanting children to NOT be groomed by drag queens, transgender activists, and LGBTQ activists.
None of these things are happening, so no action need be taken.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Does Disney actually stipulate their ages in the movie for pre-teen viewers to realize it?
I'm not sure I understand your question, but some of the characters in the movie do explicitly state their ages. I mention Aurora and Ariel because those are the two with whom my daughter is currently most obsessed, and because they both state their ages - Ariel mentions hers in an argument with her father about rules and boundaries for a teenager, and Aurora's 16th birthday is the event around which a major plot point is centered.

Rapunzel in Tangled is explicitly 18.

Anna (Frozen) and Belle (Beauty and the Beast), as far as I can recall, don't state their ages explicitly, but appear to be no more than mid-late teens through most of the films. Wikipedia says that Elsa is 21 at her coronation, which would make Anna 18 at the time of most the events of the first movie, and 18 and 15, respectively, when their parents die three years earlier. That's not entirely implausible, but IMO, feels a bit like a post hoc attempt to bump up Anna's age. Based on the way they're drawn during the death scene at the end of "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?", they both look a bit younger than that to me.

Google turns up this page, which puts many of the princesses at 15-16yo, but it's not super clear which others have their ages stated explicitly. IIRC, Moana's was not, but Merida's might have been. Apparently the original drafts of Aladdin explicitly put Jasmine's age at 15.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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Most of what is written about Christian Nationalism is silly. Critics and analysts sweepingly deride conventional Christian conservatives as Christian Nationalists. By some counts, there are, by this definition, tens of millions of Christian Nationalists. Sometimes even civil religion, with its homage to a vague deity, is labeled Christian Nationalism. If so, all presidents from George Washington to Joe Biden are Christian nationalists. Sometimes the target is folk religionists who conflate God and country.

They sometimes sport paraphernalia with American flags draped around the cross. These folk religionists typically aren’t aware they are Christian nationalists. They don’t publish articles, much less books. And they typically don’t have policy agendas, just an attitude that God and country should be interchangeably honored.

But some more intellectual Americans do consciously self-identify as Christian Nationalists. Politico has published an article about two of them. But unhelpfully the article does not explain distinctions and, like a hundred other articles, focuses on a combination of Christian conservative and New Right views held by their subjects without defining why they call themselves Christian Nationalists.

Christian Nationalism is distinct from conventional Christian conservatism. The former are typically post-liberals who want some level of explicit state-established Christianity. The latter have been and largely still are classical liberals who affirm traditional American concepts of full religious liberty for all. Both groups want a “Christian America.” But the former want it by statute. The latter see it as mainly a demographic, historical, and cultural reality.
I'm not a fan of the guy, but I will give Michael Medved credit for this:
He describes the teachings of Islam, Judaism and Christianity thusly, when trying to explain why Islam is so dangerous.

Judaism is theocratic, but it's not evangelical. i.e. it is a paradigm that connects religion and government. But it doesn't push others to abide by their faith, though they do want others to abide by their governing authorities.
Christianity is evangelical, but not thocratic. i.e. it is a paradigm that considers the faith separate from the government. They want to bring as many as possible into the church, but they don't exercise "official" authority over the government. That is, some members of government ay bring their Christian sensibilities to their role, but that's it.
Islam is both theocratic and evangelical. i.e. they want everyone to be a member of their religion, and if they have the political power, they will force the issue. And they want the government to adhere to the rules of their religion. Iran can give you a feel for it.

In a nutshell, you can see the danger of Islam above and why they can "legally" throw homosexuals off buildings, kill family members for violating the quran and kill, imprison or heavily tax people that refuse to convert. It is "islamic nationalism"

There is no room in the Christian message for "Christian Nationalism". The most we are ever told to do to those that refuse the message is to "shake the dust off our feet as a testimony against them". That's it.
 
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Vambram

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None of these things are happening, so no action need be taken.
You are disregarding the reality of what is actually been happening.
 
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BCP1928

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You are disregarding the reality of what is actually been happening.
No, because the whole "grooming" business is a fairy story. Or, to be fair, a misunderstanding about what "grooming" actually means. The bottom line is, that drag queens can't turn kids gay by reading to them.
 
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Vambram

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No, because the whole "grooming" business is a fairy story. Or, to be fair, a misunderstanding about what "grooming" actually means. The bottom line is, that drag queens can't turn kids gay by reading to them.
That is just one step, just one part, of the grooming process.
 
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iluvatar5150

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No, because the whole "grooming" business is a fairy story. Or, to be fair, a misunderstanding about what "grooming" actually means. The bottom line is, that drag queens can't turn kids gay by reading to them.
Describing it as a "misunderstanding" is rather charitable IMO.
 
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BCP1928

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Describing it as a "misunderstanding" is rather charitable IMO.
My real opinion is that it is a product of wallowing in too many lurid sexual fantasies.
 
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