Understanding Islam

[Zeek]

Shocking that 'Christianity Today' has an article that tells how many Muslims have turned to Jesus and are becoming the best evangelists. Such unbiased articles are really intriguing.

Others that read it might not be so cynical...sometimes being unbiased is not such a pressing necessity as you might suppose.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Zeek

Millions of Moslems are turning to Jesus for salvation every year, because Islam does not satisfy, it does not have the answers to the deepest cries in the human heart
​

It goes both ways friend. I was surprised at how touching some of the conversion stories were of Christians finding great peace in reverting to Islam.

You can find similar stories amongst Mormons, JW's, Buddhists...but we are talking of things on a grand scale, not pockets of individuals who have a story to tell as there will always be a number that present a different view... in many situations Moslems converts face appalling difficulties and dangers, and yet they turn to Jesus even if it costs them everything.

According to Islam, one does not "convert" but rather "revert", since in their view, everyone is born a Muslim.

[Perhaps the same can be said in Judaism, where if one is born a Jew, they remain a Jew?]

Can Someone “Convert” to Islam? | Inside Islam

In Islam, it is believed that all people are born with a natural spiritual instinct and love for God, called fitrah (the physical component of fitrah is the human body in its beauty and perfection as created by God). Babies are said to have a natural inclination for tawhid, or Oneness, and thus a reversion later in life is the intentional desire to return to this pure state of existence. It is for this reason that many Muslims prefer to say that they have reverted to Islam instead of converted.

As I mentioned in a recent piece, by some estimates, as many as one fourth of all Muslim Americans identify as Muslims not by birth. This awkward word arrangement, “Muslims not by birth” is usually shortened to “convert,” however not everyone agrees. Others prefer to use the word “revert.”

Depending on whom you ask and what you’re looking to find out, one word may be more useful than the other. And especially since spirituality, religion, and identity are some of the most intimate of topics, you may even offend someone if you don’t ask which terminology they prefer...............

Jews for Allah - Jewish testimonies

TESTIMONIES OF JEWISH CONVERTS TO ISLAM​

.​

 

[Zeek]

Like I said Lamby...you will always find a number of testimonies that advocate the benefits of other religions or ideologies...especially if you are looking for some sort of equivalency. In the light of todays headline conflicts, I don't honestly think Islam is especially attractive.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Like I said Lamby...you will always find a number of testimonies that advocate the benefits of other religions or ideologies...especially if you are looking for some sort of equivalency. In the light of todays headline conflicts, I don't honestly think Islam is especially attractive.

Oddly it will most likely result in an increase of reverts to Islam. Since typically Islam like Judaism does not proselytize or actively seek converts people hear very little about it except what they read in the news, The media attention results in more non-Muslims reading about Islam and the more that read the more that convert.

The largest Jump of Americans converting came shortly after 9/11.

Conversion To Islam One Result Of Post-9/11 Curiosity

BOSTON (RNS) Like a lot of other people in the haze and confusion of the 9/11 attacks, Johannah Segarich asked herself: "What kind of religion is this that could inspire people to do this?"

She had studied other religions, but never Islam. So she bought a copy of the Quran, wondering if her notions of Islam as a patriarchal and now seemingly violent religion, would be confirmed.

Then she got to the first chapter, with its seven-line message about seeking guidance from a merciful creator. She finished the Quran a few weeks later, then started reading it again. About half way through, barely 10 weeks after 9/11, "I came to the realization," she said, "that I had a decision to make."

Segarich began studying Islam more intensely, and within a few months, the Utah-born music instructor made her Islamic declaration of faith, or shehadah, at the Islamic Society of Boston in Cambridge.

"It seemed kind of crazy to do. I was a middle-aged professional woman, very independent, very contemporary, and here I was turning to this religion, which at that point was so reviled," Segarich recalled.

SOURCE

 

[gord44]

Woodrow is correct. God can make good come out of bad.

 

[Zoness]

I thought Islam was the other major proselytizing religion of the world besides Christianity?

 

[Zeek]

Oddly it will most likely result in an increase of reverts to Islam. Since typically Islam like Judaism does not proselytize or actively seek converts people hear very little about it except what they read in the news, The media attention results in more non-Muslims reading about Islam and the more that read the more that convert.

The largest Jump of Americans converting came shortly after 9/11.

SOURCE

In that case the actions of ISIL and Moslems in Sudan and other places where Islamic despotism rules should have people rushing to become Moslems.

It is absolutely not true that Islam does not seek converts or proselytize.

Over these last years I have been approached by more Moslems who want to share the gospel of Islam with me, than any Christians...here in the UK they are everywhere, and set up tables and bookstalls in the streets all with literature extolling the virtues of Islam, manned by erstwhile passionate young men, many who know the Bible better than some Christians...all ready to prove to you that Islam is the true path.

 

[Zeek]

Woodrow is correct. God can make good come out of bad.

Not so sure your endorsement will find fertile soil.

 

[WoodrowX2]

In that case the actions of ISIL and Moslems in Sudan and other places where Islamic despotism rules should have people rushing to become Moslems.

It is absolutely not true that Islam does not seek converts or proselytize.

Over these last years I have been approached by more Moslems who want to share the gospel of Islam with me, than any Christians...here in the UK they are everywhere, and set up tables and bookstalls in the streets all with literature extolling the virtues of Islam, manned by erstwhile passionate young men, many who know the Bible better than some Christians...all ready to prove to you that Islam is the true path.

That probably is true in the UK. I have heard of Islamic "Preachers" proselytizing in the UK. But was under the assumption they were Radicals expounding Wahhabi or Salafi and not very common.

I am unaware of Muslims proselytizing elsewhere. It is virtually non-existent in the USA Canada and Mexico.

Personally I have never come across a Muslim proselytizing Islam. But I have not been out of the USA since 1995.

One comment you made just sunk in:

manned by erstwhile passionate young men, many who know the Bible better than some Christians...all ready to prove to you that Islam is the true path.

That sounds very much like what I did when I first embraced Islam. I felt I was obligated to share what I had found and could use my knowledge of Christianity to help spread Islam. that lasted about a week and a few Muslims took me aside and told me I was giving Islam a bad name. Allaah(swt) will lead those who desire to be led. My duty is to not hide being Muslim and be prepared to answer any questions about Islam if asked.

Every Muslim I know, including myself, is very appalled at any form of proselytizing, even the proselytizing of Islam.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I thought Islam was the other major proselytizing religion of the world besides Christianity?

I was not aware it occured to any extent any place in the world until I read Zeek's post.

In my 65 years of life as A non-Muslim I had never come in contact with any Muslim attempting to convert me.

In my opinion it is an impossibility to convert anyone to Islam. We have no way of knowing if a person converts, except their saying they did. We have no way of verifying a person is Muslim except their word. There is no visible way to show they are Muslim.

 

[Zeek]

I am unaware of Muslims proselytizing elsewhere. It is virtually non-existent in the USA Canada and Mexico.

Personally I have never come across a Muslim proselytizing Islam. But I have not been out of the USA since 1995.

One comment you made just sunk in:

manned by erstwhile passionate young men, many who know the Bible better than some Christians...all ready to prove to you that Islam is the true path.


That sounds very much like what I did when I first embraced Islam. I felt I was obligated to share what I had found and could use my knowledge of Christianity to help spread Islam. that lasted about a week and a few Muslims took me aside and told me I was giving Islam a bad name. Allaah(swt) will lead those who desire to be led. My duty is to not hide being Muslim and be prepared to answer any questions about Islam if asked.

Every Muslim I know, including myself, is very appalled at any form of proselytizing, even the proselytizing of Islam.

Woodrow, you sound like a decent guy and I have no problem discussing things with you, even if we are largely at opposite ends of the spectrum in our beliefs.

Seriously though you need to get out a bit more because Islam is being preached all over the States as well as the UK and Europe. I include this excerpt from Wiki (normally I avoid it as a source), that reinforces what I have already been saying.

Islamic missionary activity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim immigrants and their missionary implications.

A major push for Islamic missionary work in North America occurred when large numbers of educated professional Muslim immigrants as well as higher-education seeking foreign Muslim students began to arrive in Canada and the United States in the early 1970s.
The arrival of these new immigrants coincided with a growing curiosity about Islam among the American public in the late 1970s, following political events in the Muslim World, which had been up until this point, somewhat invisible from the American public's consciousness. However, the Middle East Oil Crisis of 1973, the Iranian Revolution in 1979, followed by the beginning of the Afghan-Soviet War in 1980 dramatically raised the profile of Islam and Muslims in the North American media. The new wave of Muslim immigrants were thus well-placed to begin a variety of small-scale missionary efforts across their communities to inform their fellow Americans about their religion.[15]
Missionary work in prison systems[edit]

Main article: Conversion to Islam in prisons
A more recent missionary front has been the US Prison System, where encouragement of religious study has opened an avenue for Muslims to promote their own religion. There is an increasing trend towards hiring of full-time Muslim chaplains to cater to increasing populations of Muslim prisoners.[16] and in large urban areas[17] J. Michael Waller claims that Muslim inmates comprise 17-20% of the prison population, or roughly 350,000 inmates in 2003. He also claims that 80% of the prisoners who "find faith" while in prison convert to Islam.[18]
Saudi-financed missionary work[edit]

With the burgeoning Muslim population in North America by the late 1980s, numerous missionary outlets saw an opportunity to receive financing for their missionary work from various Saudi-based religious foundations as well as influential private Saudi citizens. This phenomenon, which flourished for much of the decade of the 1990s, came to an abrupt end following the events of the September 11 attacks. Some of the works undertaken at the time included:[citation needed]

• Mass distribution of A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam (ISBN 9960-34-011-2) a high quality color booklet widely available at missionary outlets.
• Mass distribution of the complete Yusuf Ali translation The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an. Tens of thousands of the US Amana Publications edition (ISBN 978-1590080252) were available for free at missionary outlets across North America during the 1990s. These were printed under the auspices of the Iqraa Charitable Society of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
• Issuing of numerous scholarships, especially to African-American converts during the early 1990s, for 2-5 year courses of Islamic studies at various Islamic universities in Saudi Arabia.
• Supporting local efforts in building Mosques. The King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, California and the Islamic Cultural Center of Italy in Rome represent two of Saudi Arabia's largest investments in foreign mosques as former Saudi king Fahd bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud contributed US$8 million and US$50 million[19] to the two mosques, respectively.

Missionary activity by specialists[edit]

With the increasing population of Muslims in North America, a number of specialist missionaries have emerged, focusing primarily on missionary work in North America. The more well-known of these Muslim missionaries include:[citation needed]

• Ahmed Deedat, South African preacher who visited North America on several occasions in the 1980s to debate Christian contemporaries and lecture on Christian-Muslim dialogue.
• Jamal Badawi, Canadian-Egyptian professor, who has been very active in Christian-Muslim dialogue for over 30 years.
• Shabir Ally, is an international speaker and very active missionary with his own weekly TV Show that airs in Canada.
• Zakir Naik of India is the founder of a vast missionary organization, Islamic Research Foundation (IRF), under whose auspices he produces numerous audio-visual missionary material for world-wide distribution. He often invites well-known North American converts for speaking tours to India.
• Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips a convert to Islam, originally from Canada, is one of the earliest and most famous public figures to speak on missionary themes in North America. He has published numerous books on Islam, and Islamic studies for new Muslims, over the past 30 years to supplement his public preaching.
• Yusuf Estes, a former Protestant Minister and now self-styled "American-Muslim chaplain" is very active in missionary work, with special focus on online missionary activity.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Woodrow, you sound like a decent guy and I have no problem discussing things with you, even if we are largely at opposite ends of the spectrum in our beliefs.

Seriously though you need to get out a bit more because Islam is being preached all over the States as well as the UK and Europe. I include this excerpt from Wiki (normally I avoid it as a source), that reinforces what I have already been saying.

Islamic missionary activity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim immigrants and their missionary implications.

A major push for Islamic missionary work in North America occurred when large numbers of educated professional Muslim immigrants as well as higher-education seeking foreign Muslim students began to arrive in Canada and the United States in the early 1970s.
The arrival of these new immigrants coincided with a growing curiosity about Islam among the American public in the late 1970s, following political events in the Muslim World, which had been up until this point, somewhat invisible from the American public's consciousness. However, the Middle East Oil Crisis of 1973, the Iranian Revolution in 1979, followed by the beginning of the Afghan-Soviet War in 1980 dramatically raised the profile of Islam and Muslims in the North American media. The new wave of Muslim immigrants were thus well-placed to begin a variety of small-scale missionary efforts across their communities to inform their fellow Americans about their religion.[15]
Missionary work in prison systems[edit]

Main article: Conversion to Islam in prisons
A more recent missionary front has been the US Prison System, where encouragement of religious study has opened an avenue for Muslims to promote their own religion. There is an increasing trend towards hiring of full-time Muslim chaplains to cater to increasing populations of Muslim prisoners.[16] and in large urban areas[17] J. Michael Waller claims that Muslim inmates comprise 17-20% of the prison population, or roughly 350,000 inmates in 2003. He also claims that 80% of the prisoners who "find faith" while in prison convert to Islam.[18]
Saudi-financed missionary work[edit]

With the burgeoning Muslim population in North America by the late 1980s, numerous missionary outlets saw an opportunity to receive financing for their missionary work from various Saudi-based religious foundations as well as influential private Saudi citizens. This phenomenon, which flourished for much of the decade of the 1990s, came to an abrupt end following the events of the September 11 attacks. Some of the works undertaken at the time included:[citation needed]

• Mass distribution of A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam (ISBN 9960-34-011-2) a high quality color booklet widely available at missionary outlets.
• Mass distribution of the complete Yusuf Ali translation The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an. Tens of thousands of the US Amana Publications edition (ISBN 978-1590080252) were available for free at missionary outlets across North America during the 1990s. These were printed under the auspices of the Iqraa Charitable Society of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
• Issuing of numerous scholarships, especially to African-American converts during the early 1990s, for 2-5 year courses of Islamic studies at various Islamic universities in Saudi Arabia.
• Supporting local efforts in building Mosques. The King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, California and the Islamic Cultural Center of Italy in Rome represent two of Saudi Arabia's largest investments in foreign mosques as former Saudi king Fahd bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud contributed US$8 million and US$50 million[19] to the two mosques, respectively.

Missionary activity by specialists[edit]

With the increasing population of Muslims in North America, a number of specialist missionaries have emerged, focusing primarily on missionary work in North America. The more well-known of these Muslim missionaries include:[citation needed]

• Ahmed Deedat, South African preacher who visited North America on several occasions in the 1980s to debate Christian contemporaries and lecture on Christian-Muslim dialogue.
• Jamal Badawi, Canadian-Egyptian professor, who has been very active in Christian-Muslim dialogue for over 30 years.
• Shabir Ally, is an international speaker and very active missionary with his own weekly TV Show that airs in Canada.
• Zakir Naik of India is the founder of a vast missionary organization, Islamic Research Foundation (IRF), under whose auspices he produces numerous audio-visual missionary material for world-wide distribution. He often invites well-known North American converts for speaking tours to India.
• Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips a convert to Islam, originally from Canada, is one of the earliest and most famous public figures to speak on missionary themes in North America. He has published numerous books on Islam, and Islamic studies for new Muslims, over the past 30 years to supplement his public preaching.
• Yusuf Estes, a former Protestant Minister and now self-styled "American-Muslim chaplain" is very active in missionary work, with special focus on online missionary activity.

I sort of know Yusuf Estes. Our paths crossed several times and we have exchanged emails. But, still have not met him in person. His speaking engagements are actually geared towards Mosques and new Muslim, not so much for converting people. We have quite a bit in common. I had met several non-Muslm relatives of his and at times we lived not very far from each other.

although I never had contact with the others,Pretty much the same can be said for Bilal Philips, and the others except for Deedat who died several years ago. Typically there speking engagements have been in Islamic centers and directed to Muslims.

The Prison Ministries are almost 100% NOI, which is a different Religion although they call them self Muslims. It is a purely American religion founded by elijah Poole in the 1930s very loosely based upon the Qur'an. Except thar Elijan Muhammad (Elijah Poole) is considered to be the last Prophet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was not aware it occured to any extent any place in the world until I read Zeek's post.

In my 65 years of life as A non-Muslim I had never come in contact with any Muslim attempting to convert me.

In my opinion it is an impossibility to convert anyone to Islam. We have no way of knowing if a person converts, except their saying they did. We have no way of verifying a person is Muslim except their word. There is no visible way to show they are Muslim.

Good post.

Christians are just stuck in the middle of it all.

.

 

[gord44]

I read a story about the Prophet, may peace be upon him, that said he compared sharing Islam to warning an army about an ambush up ahead.

 

[Zeek]

I read a story about the Prophet, may peace be upon him, that said he compared sharing Islam to warning an army about an ambush up ahead.

I don't think Mohammed actually 'shared' Islam with people....his methodology was more in keeping with what is happening with IS at the moment...Islam was spread by the sword, and nothing much has changed in 1400 years.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I don't think Mohammed actually 'shared' Islam with people....his methodology was more in keeping with what is happening with IS at the moment...Islam was spread by the sword, and nothing much has changed in 1400 years.

The old story about Islam was spread by the sword has never been proven. while there were Muslim conquests of Nations, the populace generally retained their religions. The best example being Spain. That was probably the largest nation ever conqured by Muslims but virtually all the Spaniards remained Catholic.

About 3/4 of the world's Muslims live in 5 countries. Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and China. It is a minority in both India and China. Pakistan and Banlades (Formerly East Pakistan) are Nations carved out of India to give the Indian Muslims a land of their own. Indonesian had very few Muslim Immigrants, the populace converted on their own.


While Islam is growing, I do not see any evidence it is growing by conquest.


Who would gain by the conversion of anyone to Islam? There is no central Islamic authority that would gain from converts.

Muslims are actually discouraged from migrating to Non-Islamic nations.

A few Fatwas discouraging Muslims from moving to non-Islamic Nations.

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

It is somewhat difficult to force a nation to convert to Islam, when you are advised not to enter it.

 

[Zeek]

The old story about Islam was spread by the sword has never been proven. while there were Muslim conquests of Nations, the populace generally retained their religions. The best example being Spain. That was probably the largest nation ever conqured by Muslims but virtually all the Spaniards remained Catholic.

I'm surprised you hold to this view Woodrow because from my reading Islam was spread by the sword and in many instances people were given the choice of converting to Islam or having their head part company with their neck. Those that were allowed to retain their religion were often treated as third rate slaves and subject to dhimmitude and everything that went with it including the jizya taxing.

About 3/4 of the world's Muslims live in 5 countries. Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and China. It is a minority in both India and China. Pakistan and Banlades (Formerly East Pakistan) are Nations carved out of India to give the Indian Muslims a land of their own. Indonesian had very few Muslim Immigrants, the populace converted on their own.

The history of Islam spread by the sword is a generalization...but Moslems executed masses of Indians and put the fear of Allah in them that is all on record, and some of the things they did to put fear into people is beyond imagining.

While Islam is growing, I do not see any evidence it is growing by conquest.

It stopped in the early 20th century after the massacre of 1,000,000 Armenians...but has recently been flexing its muscles again and testing the waters...there is certainly a non-violent jihad (so far) being waged culturally and economically in Europe and else where; Moslems are making more and more noise and presenting non-stop demands to the governments of the nations they live in, and have in some cases made their long term goals very clear....to turn the nations into Islamic areas.

Who would gain by the conversion of anyone to Islam? There is no central Islamic authority that would gain from converts.

I think with the onset of IS and the threats to the West that have been growing and have come out of this group...people are aware that there could be a time when they will have to make a choice about their beliefs and once again embrace Islam, die or be enslaved.

(Ps I read the Fatwas on migration etc...interesting.)

 

[simplegifts]

I'm surprised you hold to this view Woodrow because from my reading Islam was spread by the sword and in many instances people were given the choice of converting to Islam or having their head part company with their neck. Those that were allowed to retain their religion were often treated as third rate slaves and subject to dhimmitude and everything that went with it including the jizya taxing.

The history of Islam spread by the sword is a generalization...but Moslems executed masses of Indians and put the fear of Allah in them that is all on record, and some of the things they did to put fear into people is beyond imagining.

It stopped in the early 20th century after the massacre of 1,000,000 Armenians...but has recently been flexing its muscles again and testing the waters...there is certainly a non-violent jihad (so far) being waged culturally and economically in Europe and else where; Moslems are making more and more noise and presenting non-stop demands to the governments of the nations they live in, and have in some cases made their long term goals very clear....to turn the nations into Islamic areas.

I think with the onset of IS and the threats to the West that have been growing and have come out of this group...people are aware that there could be a time when they will have to make a choice about their beliefs and once again embrace Islam, die or be enslaved.

(Ps I read the Fatwas on migration etc...interesting.)

He and every peaceful Muslims has to convince themselves of this. Why and how could a peaceful person follow such a horrific ideology?

They also have to convince themselves that live for non-Muslims under Islam is so wonderful. Read the Pact of Omar to see the truth.

 

[WoodrowX2]

He and every peaceful Muslims has to convince themselves of this. Why and how could a peaceful person follow such a horrific ideology?

They also have to convince themselves that live for non-Muslims under Islam is so wonderful. Read the Pact of Omar to see the truth.

The only times I have ever lived in Islamic Nations, was as a Christian. During a 30 year period I lived at least part of each year in North Africa or the Mideast..

At no time did I ever felt discriminated against or was threatened with any violence. Even though I was openly breaking the law by converting Muslims to Christianity

My only fear was of being kicked out of the country for baptizing someone.

I will admit all that was before 9/11 and since 9/11 there has been considerable hostilities against non-Muslims in Islamic Nation. But that I believe reflects anger against the West (America especially) and not something from Islam.

The Pact of Omar is quite interesting. Have you read it? It seems this was a joint agreement. Basically it is the same conditions Christians required of Non-Christians when they conqured a City.

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate!
This is a writing to Umar from the Christians of such and such a city. When You [Muslims] marched against us [Christians],: we asked of you protection for ourselves, our posterity, our possessions, and our co-religionists; and we made this stipulation with you, that we will not erect in our city or the suburbs any new monastery, church, cell or hermitage; that we will not repair any of such buildings that may fall into ruins, or renew those that may be situated in the Muslim quarters of the town; that we will not refuse the Muslims entry into our churches either by night or by day; that we will open the gates wide to passengers and travellers; that we will receive any Muslim traveller into our houses and give him food and lodging for three nights; that we will not harbor any spy in our churches or houses, or conceal any enemy of the Muslims. [At least six of these laws were taken over from earlier Christian laws against infidels.]

SOURCE

TRIVIA: The word Infidel was coined by the Catholic Church from "In Fidelis" and used to identify any non-Christian,

SOURCE

 

[Zeek]

Hey Woodrow...you quoted me as saying the above...it were not I.