• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Under what circumstances is the Scripture the 'Word of God'

food4thought

Loving truth
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
51
Watervliet, MI
✟406,829.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The scriptures are the word of God, always in every situation. Like a sword, it will only be effective if the one wielding it is able to understand it and use it properly... but a sword is still a sword, even in the hands of an amateur.

Likewise, the scriptures are still the word of God regardless of how one views or perceives them. Just like God is still God even if someone believes He is a devil, and Satan is still Satan even if one perceives him to be God. God spoke the scriptures through His chosen vessels, and, even if it is misunderstood or mistranslated, even if misused or taken out of context, God still breathed/Spirited the scriptures through the people who wrote them, and it is true because He is true.

To summarize, the Bible is the word of God in every circumstance, but can be misused, misunderstood, mistranslated, and taken out of context. These things do not change nature of what the Bible is, but only reflects the nature of the one using/reading it. How one misuses/misunderstands the Bible tells us much more about them than it does the scriptures and God, but the Bible NEVER ceases to be the word of God, and, properly understood, never ceases to be true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
@food4thought
So your definition of the Word of God does not require the Holy Spirit - you maintain the Scripture without the Spirit is still God's Word ???

This is where the matter must be considered carefully.

Our use of the term "Word of God" seems to become confused when it can refer to several things.

1. The sustaining Word of God that upholds the universe.
2. The Voice of God that communicated directly to Man e.g. at Jesus baptism and Transfiguration.
3. The inner witness of God in the hearts of believers.
4. The evidence of God through creation.
5. Divine understanding of Scripture given by the Holy Spirit.

I think each of these 5 requires the action of the Holy Spirit to be present.

This is why I believe that when Satan tempted Jesus quoting Scripture it was not "God's Word" as the Holy Spirit was not active.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
On CF we see endless presentations of Scripture fuelled by weird theologies and the members claim authority of 'Truth' because they quote the "Word of God".

This is a nonsense.

In extreme cases the Scripture is elevated to become part of the trinity when the Sacred title of Jesus as the 'Word' gets confused with Scripture.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

Veritas1

Member
Feb 19, 2022
18
2
74
Cumbria
✟16,238.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
There is a Vatican II document entitled 'Dei Verbum' (The Word of God) which was promulgated in 1964 and has something to contribute to this discussion. Quote:-

'In His gracious goodness, God has seen to it that what He had revealed for the salvation of all nations would abide perpetually in its full integrity and be handed on to all generations. Therefore Christ the Lord in whom the full revelation of the supreme God is brought to completion (see 2 Cor. 1:20; 3:13; 4:6), commissioned the Apostles to preach to all men that Gospel which is the source of all saving truth and moral teaching, and to impart to them heavenly gifts. This Gospel had been promised in former times through the prophets, and Christ Himself had fulfilled it and promulgated it with His lips.'

'This commission was faithfully fulfilled by the Apostles who, by their oral preaching, by example, and by observances handed on what they had received from the lips of Christ, from living with Him, and from what He did, or what they had learned through the prompting of the Holy Spirit. The commission was fulfilled, too, by those Apostles and apostolic men who under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit committed the message of salvation to writing.'

'But in order to keep the Gospel forever whole and alive within the Church, the Apostles left bishops as their successors, "handing over" to them "the authority to teach in their own place".'

'This sacred tradition, therefore, and Sacred Scripture of both the Old and New Testaments are like a mirror in which the pilgrim Church on earth looks at God, from whom she has received everything, until she is brought finally to see Him as He is, face to face (see 1 John 3:2).'

'And so the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved by an unending succession of preachers until the end of time. Therefore the Apostles, handing on what they themselves had received, warn the faithful to hold fast to the traditions which they have learned either by word of mouth or by letter (see 2 Thess. 2:15), and to fight in defense of the faith handed on once and for all (see Jude 1:3).'

'Now what was handed on by the Apostles includes everything which contributes toward the holiness of life and increase in faith of the peoples of God; and so the Church, in her teaching, life and worship, perpetuates and hands on to all generations all that she herself is, all that she believes.'

'This tradition which comes from the Apostles develops in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. For there is a growth in the understanding of the realities and the words which have been handed down. This happens through the contemplation and study made by believers, who treasure these things in their hearts (see Luke, 2:19, 51) through a penetrating understanding of the spiritual realities which they experience, and through the preaching of those who have received through Episcopal succession the sure gift of truth. For as the centuries succeed one another, the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth until the words of God reach their complete fulfillment in her.'

'There exists a close connection and communication between sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit, while sacred tradition takes the word of God entrusted by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit to the Apostles, and hands it on to their successors in its full purity, so that led by the light of the Spirit of truth, they may in proclaiming it preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from Sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of loyalty and reverence.'

'Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God, committed to the Church. Holding fast to this deposit the entire holy people united with their shepherds remain always steadfast in the teaching of the Apostles, in the common life, in the breaking of the bread and in prayers (see Acts 2:42).'

But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed.'

'Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For holy mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.'
'In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him, they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted.'

'Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation. Therefore "all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind" (2 Tim. 3:16-17).'

'In Sacred Scripture, therefore, while the truth and holiness of God always remains intact, the marvelous "condescension" of eternal wisdom is clearly shown, "that we may learn the gentle kindness of God, which words cannot express, and how far He has gone in adapting His language with thoughtful concern for our weak human nature." For the words of God, expressed in human language, have been made like human discourse, just as the word of the eternal Father, when He took to Himself the flesh of human weakness, was in every way made like men.'

'The principal purpose to which the plan of the old covenant was directed was to prepare for the coming of Christ, the redeemer of all and of the messianic kingdom, to announce this coming by prophecy (see Luke 24:44; John 5:39; 1 Peter 1:10), and to indicate its meaning through various types (see 1 Cor. 10:12). Now the books of the Old Testament, in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Christ, reveal to all men the knowledge of God and of man and the ways in which God, just and merciful, deals with men.'
'These same books, then, give expression to a lively sense of God, contain a store of sublime teachings about God, sound wisdom about human life, and a wonderful treasury of prayers, and in them the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way. Christians should receive them with reverence.

'God, the inspirer and author of both Testaments, wisely arranged that the New Testament be hidden in the Old and the Old be made manifest in the New. For, though Christ established the new covenant in His blood (see Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25), still the books of the Old Testament with all their parts, caught up into the proclamation of the Gospel, acquire and show forth their full meaning in the New Testament (see Matt. 5:17; Luke 24:27; Rom. 16:25-26; 2 Cor. 14:16) and in turn shed light on it and explain it.

'The word of God, which is the power of God for the salvation of all who believe (see Rom. 1:16), is set forth and shows its power in a most excellent way in the writings of the New Testament. For when the fullness of time arrived (see Gal. 4:4), the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us in His fullness of graces and truth (see John 1:14). Christ established the kingdom of God on earth, manifested His Father and Himself by deeds and words, and completed His work by His death, resurrection and glorious Ascension and by the sending of the Holy Spirit. Having been lifted up from the earth, He draws all men to Himself (see John 12:32, Greek text), He who alone has the words of eternal life (see John 6:68). This mystery had not been manifested to other generations as it was now revealed to His holy Apostles and prophets in the Holy Spirit (see Eph. 3:4-6), so that they might preach the Gospel, stir up faith in Jesus, Christ and Lord, and gather together the Church. Now the writings of the New Testament stand as a perpetual and divine witness to these realities.

'It is common knowledge that among all the Scriptures, even those of the New Testament, the Gospels have a special preeminence, and rightly so, for they are the principal witness for the life and teaching of the incarnate Word, our savior.'

'The Church has always and everywhere held and continues to hold that the four Gospels are of apostolic origin. For what the Apostles preached in fulfillment of the commission of Christ, afterwards they themselves and apostolic men, under the inspiration of the divine Spirit, handed on to us in writing: the foundation of faith, namely, the fourfold Gospel, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.'

'The four Gospels just named, whose historical character the Church unhesitatingly asserts, faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation until the day He was taken up into heaven (see Acts 1:1). Indeed, after the Ascension of the Lord the Apostles handed on to their hearers what He had said and done. This they did with that clearer understanding which they enjoyed after they had been instructed by the glorious events of Christ's life and taught by the light of the Spirit of truth. The sacred authors wrote the four Gospels, selecting some things from the many which had been handed on by word of mouth or in writing, reducing some of them to a synthesis, explaining some things in view of the situation of their churches and preserving the form of proclamation but always in such fashion that they told us the honest truth about Jesus. For their intention in writing was that either from their own memory and recollections, or from the witness of those who "themselves from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word" we might know "the truth" concerning those matters about which we have been instructed (see Luke 1:2-4).'

'Besides the four Gospels, the canon of the New Testament also contains the epistles of St. Paul and other apostolic writings, composed under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, by which, according to the wise plan of God, those matters which concern Christ the Lord are confirmed, His true teaching is more and more fully stated, the saving power of the divine work of Christ is preached, the story is told of the beginnings of the Church and its marvelous growth, and its glorious fulfillment is foretold.'

'The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord, since, especially in the sacred liturgy, she unceasingly receives and offers to the faithful the bread of life from the table both of God's word and of Christ's body. She has always maintained them, and continues to do so, together with sacred tradition, as the supreme rule of faith, since, as inspired by God and committed once and for all to writing, they impart the word of God Himself without change, and make the voice of the Holy Spirit resound in the words of the prophets and Apostles.'
'Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by Sacred Scripture. For in the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven meets His children with great love and speaks with them; and the force and power in the word of God is so great that it stands as the support and energy of the Church, the strength of faith for her sons, the food of the soul, the pure and everlasting source of spiritual life.'
'Consequently these words are perfectly applicable to Sacred Scripture: "For the word of God is living and active" (Heb. 4:12) and "it has power to build you up and give you your heritage among all those who are sanctified" (Acts 20:32; see 1 Thess. 2:13).'
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,232
7,544
North Carolina
✟345,495.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
@food4thought
So your definition of the Word of God does not require the Holy Spirit - you maintain the Scripture without the Spirit is still God's Word ???
This is where the matter must be considered carefully.
Our use of the term "Word of God" seems to become confused when it can refer to several things.
1. The sustaining Word of God that upholds the universe.
2. The Voice of God that communicated directly to Man e.g. at Jesus baptism, Transfiguration.
3. The inner witness of God in the hearts of believers.
4. The evidence of God through creation.
5. Divine understanding of Scripture given by the Holy Spirit.
I think each of these 5 requires the action of the Holy Spirit to be present.
This is why I believe that when Satan tempted Jesus quoting Scripture it was not "God's Word" as the Holy Spirit was not active.
"Word of God" also means the written Scriptures, which is what Satan quoted, right?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,232
7,544
North Carolina
✟345,495.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There is a Vatican II document entitled 'Dei Verbum' (The Word of God) which was promulgated in 1964 and has something to contribute to this discussion. Quote:-

'In His gracious goodness, God has seen to it that what He had revealed for the salvation of all nations would abide perpetually in its full integrity and be handed on to all generations. Therefore Christ the Lord in whom the full revelation of the supreme God is brought to completion (see 2 Cor. 1:20; 3:13; 4:6), commissioned the Apostles to preach to all men that Gospel which is the source of all saving truth and moral teaching, and to impart to them heavenly gifts. This Gospel had been promised in former times through the prophets, and Christ Himself had fulfilled it and promulgated it with His lips.'

'This commission was faithfully fulfilled by the Apostles who, by their oral preaching, by example, and by observances handed on what they had received from the lips of Christ, from living with Him, and from what He did, or what they had learned through the prompting of the Holy Spirit. The commission was fulfilled, too, by those Apostles and apostolic men who under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit committed the message of salvation to writing.'

'But in order to keep the Gospel forever whole and alive within the Church, the Apostles left bishops as their successors, "handing over" to them "the authority to teach in their own place".'

'This sacred tradition, therefore, and Sacred Scripture of both the Old and New Testaments are like a mirror in which the pilgrim Church on earth looks at God, from whom she has received everything, until she is brought finally to see Him as He is, face to face (see 1 John 3:2).'

'And so the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved by an unending succession of preachers until the end of time. Therefore the Apostles, handing on what they themselves had received, warn the faithful to hold fast to the traditions which they have learned either by word of mouth or by letter (see 2 Thess. 2:15), and to fight in defense of the faith handed on once and for all (see Jude 1:3).'

'Now what was handed on by the Apostles includes everything which contributes toward the holiness of life and increase in faith of the peoples of God; and so the Church, in her teaching, life and worship, perpetuates and hands on to all generations all that she herself is, all that she believes.'

'This tradition which comes from the Apostles develops in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. For there is a growth in the understanding of the realities and the words which have been handed down. This happens through the contemplation and study made by believers, who treasure these things in their hearts (see Luke, 2:19, 51) through a penetrating understanding of the spiritual realities which they experience, and through the preaching of those who have received through Episcopal succession the sure gift of truth. For as the centuries succeed one another, the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth until the words of God reach their complete fulfillment in her.'

'There exists a close connection and communication between sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit, while sacred tradition takes the word of God entrusted by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit to the Apostles, and hands it on to their successors in its full purity, so that led by the light of the Spirit of truth, they may in proclaiming it preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from Sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of loyalty and reverence.'

'Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God, committed to the Church. Holding fast to this deposit the entire holy people united with their shepherds remain always steadfast in the teaching of the Apostles, in the common life, in the breaking of the bread and in prayers (see Acts 2:42).'

But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed.'

'Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For holy mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.'
'In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him, they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted.'

'Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation. Therefore "all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind" (2 Tim. 3:16-17).'

'In Sacred Scripture, therefore, while the truth and holiness of God always remains intact, the marvelous "condescension" of eternal wisdom is clearly shown, "that we may learn the gentle kindness of God, which words cannot express, and how far He has gone in adapting His language with thoughtful concern for our weak human nature." For the words of God, expressed in human language, have been made like human discourse, just as the word of the eternal Father, when He took to Himself the flesh of human weakness, was in every way made like men.'

'The principal purpose to which the plan of the old covenant was directed was to prepare for the coming of Christ, the redeemer of all and of the messianic kingdom, to announce this coming by prophecy (see Luke 24:44; John 5:39; 1 Peter 1:10), and to indicate its meaning through various types (see 1 Cor. 10:12). Now the books of the Old Testament, in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Christ, reveal to all men the knowledge of God and of man and the ways in which God, just and merciful, deals with men.'
'These same books, then, give expression to a lively sense of God, contain a store of sublime teachings about God, sound wisdom about human life, and a wonderful treasury of prayers, and in them the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way. Christians should receive them with reverence.

'God, the inspirer and author of both Testaments, wisely arranged that the New Testament be hidden in the Old and the Old be made manifest in the New. For, though Christ established the new covenant in His blood (see Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25), still the books of the Old Testament with all their parts, caught up into the proclamation of the Gospel, acquire and show forth their full meaning in the New Testament (see Matt. 5:17; Luke 24:27; Rom. 16:25-26; 2 Cor. 14:16) and in turn shed light on it and explain it.

'The word of God, which is the power of God for the salvation of all who believe (see Rom. 1:16), is set forth and shows its power in a most excellent way in the writings of the New Testament. For when the fullness of time arrived (see Gal. 4:4), the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us in His fullness of graces and truth (see John 1:14). Christ established the kingdom of God on earth, manifested His Father and Himself by deeds and words, and completed His work by His death, resurrection and glorious Ascension and by the sending of the Holy Spirit. Having been lifted up from the earth, He draws all men to Himself (see John 12:32, Greek text), He who alone has the words of eternal life (see John 6:68). This mystery had not been manifested to other generations as it was now revealed to His holy Apostles and prophets in the Holy Spirit (see Eph. 3:4-6), so that they might preach the Gospel, stir up faith in Jesus, Christ and Lord, and gather together the Church. Now the writings of the New Testament stand as a perpetual and divine witness to these realities.

'It is common knowledge that among all the Scriptures, even those of the New Testament, the Gospels have a special preeminence, and rightly so, for they are the principal witness for the life and teaching of the incarnate Word, our savior.'

'The Church has always and everywhere held and continues to hold that the four Gospels are of apostolic origin. For what the Apostles preached in fulfillment of the commission of Christ, afterwards they themselves and apostolic men, under the inspiration of the divine Spirit, handed on to us in writing: the foundation of faith, namely, the fourfold Gospel, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.'

'The four Gospels just named, whose historical character the Church unhesitatingly asserts, faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation until the day He was taken up into heaven (see Acts 1:1). Indeed, after the Ascension of the Lord the Apostles handed on to their hearers what He had said and done. This they did with that clearer understanding which they enjoyed after they had been instructed by the glorious events of Christ's life and taught by the light of the Spirit of truth. The sacred authors wrote the four Gospels, selecting some things from the many which had been handed on by word of mouth or in writing, reducing some of them to a synthesis, explaining some things in view of the situation of their churches and preserving the form of proclamation but always in such fashion that they told us the honest truth about Jesus. For their intention in writing was that either from their own memory and recollections, or from the witness of those who "themselves from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word" we might know "the truth" concerning those matters about which we have been instructed (see Luke 1:2-4).'

'Besides the four Gospels, the canon of the New Testament also contains the epistles of St. Paul and other apostolic writings, composed under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, by which, according to the wise plan of God, those matters which concern Christ the Lord are confirmed, His true teaching is more and more fully stated, the saving power of the divine work of Christ is preached, the story is told of the beginnings of the Church and its marvelous growth, and its glorious fulfillment is foretold.'

'The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord, since, especially in the sacred liturgy, she unceasingly receives and offers to the faithful the bread of life from the table both of God's word and of Christ's body. She has always maintained them, and continues to do so, together with sacred tradition, as the supreme rule of faith, since, as inspired by God and committed once and for all to writing, they impart the word of God Himself without change, and make the voice of the Holy Spirit resound in the words of the prophets and Apostles.'
'Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by Sacred Scripture. For in the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven meets His children with great love and speaks with them; and the force and power in the word of God is so great that it stands as the support and energy of the Church, the strength of faith for her sons, the food of the soul, the pure and everlasting source of spiritual life.'
'Consequently these words are perfectly applicable to Sacred Scripture: "For the word of God is living and active" (Heb. 4:12) and "it has power to build you up and give you your heritage among all those who are sanctified" (Acts 20:32; see 1 Thess. 2:13).'
Thanks. . .

Assuming the tradition of which it speaks is in agreement with the Scriptures of which it speaks, and which has no authority not in agreement with Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,232
7,544
North Carolina
✟345,495.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Satan was clearly not speaking God's Word so his quotes from scripture were not God's living Word. They were designed to deceive.
Is not God's living word Jesus Christ? (John 1:14)

Does Satan speaking them alter the fact that they were the word of God written?
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thanks. . .

Assuming the tradition of which it speaks is in agreement with the Scriptures of which it speaks, and which has no authority not in agreement with Scripture.

Bare in mind that what is considered scripture varies among denominations.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Clare73
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is not God's living word Jesus Christ? (John 1:14)

Does Satan speaking them alter the fact that they were the word of God written?

Ref John 1:14 Yes that is my point... He is the Living Word.

Scripture without the Holy Spirit is not His Living Word.
 
Upvote 0

Veritas1

Member
Feb 19, 2022
18
2
74
Cumbria
✟16,238.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
  1. Carl, I wonder what you mean when you say denominations differ about what is scripture.
  2. In his second letter to Timothy, Paul reflected on Timothy's faith, a faith that lived first in his grandmother Lois, and his mother Eunice', through whom it had been passed on to Timothy. The New Testament did not exist yet. So, this 'passing on' of faith was not through the written word, but through the oral tradition, passed on from the apostles and passed on from generation to generation. It took the Church several centuries to confirm with authority which documents - gospels and letters - were to be accepted as the revealed Word of God.
    When Peter addressed the crowd on Pentecost Day and those who heard him asked 'what should we do', 3,000 listened and were baptised and 'devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers'.
    When Paul joined these early Christians, there was already an apostolic tradition which he incorporated into his message, some of which is witnessed to in his letters. The teaching that Paul received, he then proclaimed and passed on to others, and elements of this is scattered throughout his letters. Passages such as 1 Cor 11:23-25 demonstrate an established Eucharistic formula already in use in the Church. Prayers like 1 Thess 3:13 and Gal 6:18, 'Amen', 'maranatha', 'Abba, Father', doxologies, all echo the prayers in use in the early Church. Expressions such as 'Jesus is Lord', 'Jesus is the Christ', 'one Lord, one baptism, one God and Father of all'; titles such as 'Kyrios', 'Son of God'; catechetical material reflects terminology in use in the early Church and incorporated by Paul into his oral teaching and his letters.
    We know from Paul's letters that after the Damascus revelation, Paul spent some time in Arabia, then went back to Damascus and three years later he went to Jerusalem and spent time with Peter, to find out more about Jesus, His teaching and ministry, and the traditions of the Jerusalem Church, which Paul himself then handed on to the Church in Syria, Cylicia, Antioch and all the Churches he visited.
    Paul had heard about Jesus of Nazareth, but had not met Him in person, and knew little about Him. Almost all his letters were written before the Gospels, and Paul knew little about Jesus' manner of life, His ministry, His message and even His personality. There are few references to Jesus' sayings in Paul's letters. Where these do occur, they give evidence that Jesus' sayings were already being circulated and handed on among the early Church communities, where Paul would have heard them too. His references to the sayings of the 'Kyrios' show Paul's interest in the traditions already being developed and established in the apostolic Church. There are few references to details of Jesus' life, and they are not narrated by Paul from any historical interest. He records what was passed on to him from the traditions already developing in the early church communities. And his encounter with the problems facing the early Church, - such as the influence of Judaisers and elements of Greek philosophy - led him to offer specific advice and instructions for particular communities while retaining the traditions that had been passed on to Paul.
    1 Cor 11:2 'you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions just as I handed them on to you'.
    Gal 1:13-14 'You have heard no doubt, of my earlier life in Judaism. I was violently persecuting the church of God and was trying to destroy it. I advanced in Judaism beyond many among my people of the same age, for I was far more zealous for the traditions of my ancestors.'
    2 Cor 8 'See to it that no one takes you captive through philisophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe.'
    Even from apostolic times, there were people who misinterpreted the traditions and teachings of the apostolic church. That is evident from the Gospels, the letters of the New Testament and the writings of the Church Fathers. Throughout the centuries the Church has confronted the errors perpetrated by gnostics, arians, and numerous other heretical movements.
    Who had the authority to decide whether a gospel, letter or other document was the inspired words of God? What identified a book as authentic and inspired? As early as the 2nd century, there was in the Church a sense of 'revealed truth', 'rule of faith' and 'rule of life'. Even then, there was no agreement among Jews that had determined the books of what we call the Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures. It was not until the 2nd century that Jews and Christians began to discuss the books that each considered to be inspired.
    Until about 50AD, Christian faith was communicated and nourished by word of mouth and the traditions established in these years, such as the principal traditions of baptism and the Eucharist.
    As Christianity expanded, the need for Christian writings emerged. And as Christianity developed, some writings were preserved, others were lost, others were preserved but not accepted. Apostolic origin became an important factor.
    Letters were addressed to specific communities, addressing issues relevant to each community. The churches of Asia Minor, Syria, Greece and Rome were successful in preserving letters and gospels, whereas the disruption of the churches of Palestine prevented the preservation of letters there. There is certainly at least one of Paul's letters that has been lost. What is certain is that all the books of the New Testament were written before 125AD, and traditions regarding authorship often determined acceptance.
    Christians began to gather copies of these writings into collections. The early writings of Clement of Rome, Ignatius and others refer to and quote from such collections. But at the same time, spurious writings were also in circulation, such as the 'Epistle to the Laodiceans', 'Acts of Paul', 'Apocalypse of Peter' and 'Gospel of Thomas'. By the end of the 4th century there was general acceptance of the 27 books that comprise what is later called the New Testament, but we cannot infer from this that there was a universal acceptance in all the local churches, - Greek, Latin, Syrian, Ethiopian etc. It was not until the emergence of humanism in the 16th century that reservations began to emerge concerning apostolic authorship.
    The Council of Trent confirmed which books should be regarded as inspired, while avoiding saying these were the only inspired books. What was the criteria used at the Council of Trent? The continuous use in the Church of the books of Scripture as witnessing to God's salvific action in Christ's life, death, resurrection and the work of the Holy Spirit in the immediate post-resurrection time. These books were regarded as inspired in their entirety, without addressing differences in the translations.
    The Reformation raised other questions, asking if some books were more inspired than others? Were there divergent theologies? After Pentecost, did divergent theological understandings emerge? Divergent 'rules of faith'? Divergent 'rules of life'?
    What is important to remember is the guidance of the Holy Spirit acting within the living Church. It was Church usage that determined which books were accepted as Scripture. And Church usage determines the authority attributed to the sacramental, hierarchical and dogmatic aspects that emerged within the life of the Church.
    We cannot equate Church usage with the will of God. There is a human factor in the historical process of the development of Christianity. We must remember that the teaching authority of the Church is not above the Word of God, but serves the Word of God. In the apostolic era, the Church shared 'one faith, one baptism, one Lord, one Father of all', and at the same time held different theological views. Should the Church today be less ecumenical?

    Is all Scripture 'clear and explicit'? What about 'the mysteries of the kingdom'? In Greek - 'mysterion'.
    Paul's firt reference to 'mysterion' is in 2 Thess 2:7, which has nothing to do with the gospel. Here, Paul is referring to 'the mystery of iniquity', which is a scheme of satan's at work in the world.
    Thereafter, Paul refers to 'God's mystery', which he equates with Jesus Christ Crucified.
    God's plan of salvation for mankind has been hidden in God, and is beyond the understanding of mortal men and beyond the powers of this world. It has now been revealed, first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. The 'mystery of Christ' has a cosmic significance, revealing Christ to be the meaning and the goal of all creation. Through Christ, salvation comes to all mankind, through incorporation into His Body, the Church.
    Paul identifies Christ with the gospel,- both are the power of God. He also speaks of Christ as the wisdom of God, secret and hidden, and not understood by the rulers of this world, who crucified the Lord of glory.
    What is clear in Paul's letters is that this mystery is never fully made known to mankind by ordinary means of communication. Because it is 'revealed', it is only apprehended by faith. Even then, since it is the power and the wisdom and the secret of God, we can never fully comprehend the 'mystery of Christ' in this life.
    See:
    Romans 11:25; 16:25.
    1 Corinthians 2:1, 7; 4:1; 13:2; 14:2; 15:51.
    Ephesians 1:9; 3:3-4, 9; 5:32; 6:19.
    Colossians 1:26-27; 2:2; 4:3.
    1 Timothy




 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
  1. Carl, I wonder what you mean when you say denominations differ about what is scripture.
  2. In his second letter to Timothy, Paul reflected on Timothy's faith, a faith that lived first in his grandmother Lois, and his mother Eunice', through whom it had been passed on to Timothy. The New Testament did not exist yet. So, this 'passing on' of faith was not through the written word, but through the oral tradition, passed on from the apostles and passed on from generation to generation. It took the Church several centuries to confirm with authority which documents - gospels and letters - were to be accepted as the revealed Word of God.
    When Peter addressed the crowd on Pentecost Day and those who heard him asked 'what should we do', 3,000 listened and were baptised and 'devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers'.
    When Paul joined these early Christians, there was already an apostolic tradition which he incorporated into his message, some of which is witnessed to in his letters. The teaching that Paul received, he then proclaimed and passed on to others, and elements of this is scattered throughout his letters. Passages such as 1 Cor 11:23-25 demonstrate an established Eucharistic formula already in use in the Church. Prayers like 1 Thess 3:13 and Gal 6:18, 'Amen', 'maranatha', 'Abba, Father', doxologies, all echo the prayers in use in the early Church. Expressions such as 'Jesus is Lord', 'Jesus is the Christ', 'one Lord, one baptism, one God and Father of all'; titles such as 'Kyrios', 'Son of God'; catechetical material reflects terminology in use in the early Church and incorporated by Paul into his oral teaching and his letters.
    We know from Paul's letters that after the Damascus revelation, Paul spent some time in Arabia, then went back to Damascus and three years later he went to Jerusalem and spent time with Peter, to find out more about Jesus, His teaching and ministry, and the traditions of the Jerusalem Church, which Paul himself then handed on to the Church in Syria, Cylicia, Antioch and all the Churches he visited.
    Paul had heard about Jesus of Nazareth, but had not met Him in person, and knew little about Him. Almost all his letters were written before the Gospels, and Paul knew little about Jesus' manner of life, His ministry, His message and even His personality. There are few references to Jesus' sayings in Paul's letters. Where these do occur, they give evidence that Jesus' sayings were already being circulated and handed on among the early Church communities, where Paul would have heard them too. His references to the sayings of the 'Kyrios' show Paul's interest in the traditions already being developed and established in the apostolic Church. There are few references to details of Jesus' life, and they are not narrated by Paul from any historical interest. He records what was passed on to him from the traditions already developing in the early church communities. And his encounter with the problems facing the early Church, - such as the influence of Judaisers and elements of Greek philosophy - led him to offer specific advice and instructions for particular communities while retaining the traditions that had been passed on to Paul.
    1 Cor 11:2 'you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions just as I handed them on to you'.
    Gal 1:13-14 'You have heard no doubt, of my earlier life in Judaism. I was violently persecuting the church of God and was trying to destroy it. I advanced in Judaism beyond many among my people of the same age, for I was far more zealous for the traditions of my ancestors.'
    2 Cor 8 'See to it that no one takes you captive through philisophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe.'
    Even from apostolic times, there were people who misinterpreted the traditions and teachings of the apostolic church. That is evident from the Gospels, the letters of the New Testament and the writings of the Church Fathers. Throughout the centuries the Church has confronted the errors perpetrated by gnostics, arians, and numerous other heretical movements.
    Who had the authority to decide whether a gospel, letter or other document was the inspired words of God? What identified a book as authentic and inspired? As early as the 2nd century, there was in the Church a sense of 'revealed truth', 'rule of faith' and 'rule of life'. Even then, there was no agreement among Jews that had determined the books of what we call the Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures. It was not until the 2nd century that Jews and Christians began to discuss the books that each considered to be inspired.
    Until about 50AD, Christian faith was communicated and nourished by word of mouth and the traditions established in these years, such as the principal traditions of baptism and the Eucharist.
    As Christianity expanded, the need for Christian writings emerged. And as Christianity developed, some writings were preserved, others were lost, others were preserved but not accepted. Apostolic origin became an important factor.
    Letters were addressed to specific communities, addressing issues relevant to each community. The churches of Asia Minor, Syria, Greece and Rome were successful in preserving letters and gospels, whereas the disruption of the churches of Palestine prevented the preservation of letters there. There is certainly at least one of Paul's letters that has been lost. What is certain is that all the books of the New Testament were written before 125AD, and traditions regarding authorship often determined acceptance.
    Christians began to gather copies of these writings into collections. The early writings of Clement of Rome, Ignatius and others refer to and quote from such collections. But at the same time, spurious writings were also in circulation, such as the 'Epistle to the Laodiceans', 'Acts of Paul', 'Apocalypse of Peter' and 'Gospel of Thomas'. By the end of the 4th century there was general acceptance of the 27 books that comprise what is later called the New Testament, but we cannot infer from this that there was a universal acceptance in all the local churches, - Greek, Latin, Syrian, Ethiopian etc. It was not until the emergence of humanism in the 16th century that reservations began to emerge concerning apostolic authorship.
    The Council of Trent confirmed which books should be regarded as inspired, while avoiding saying these were the only inspired books. What was the criteria used at the Council of Trent? The continuous use in the Church of the books of Scripture as witnessing to God's salvific action in Christ's life, death, resurrection and the work of the Holy Spirit in the immediate post-resurrection time. These books were regarded as inspired in their entirety, without addressing differences in the translations.
    The Reformation raised other questions, asking if some books were more inspired than others? Were there divergent theologies? After Pentecost, did divergent theological understandings emerge? Divergent 'rules of faith'? Divergent 'rules of life'?
    What is important to remember is the guidance of the Holy Spirit acting within the living Church. It was Church usage that determined which books were accepted as Scripture. And Church usage determines the authority attributed to the sacramental, hierarchical and dogmatic aspects that emerged within the life of the Church.
    We cannot equate Church usage with the will of God. There is a human factor in the historical process of the development of Christianity. We must remember that the teaching authority of the Church is not above the Word of God, but serves the Word of God. In the apostolic era, the Church shared 'one faith, one baptism, one Lord, one Father of all', and at the same time held different theological views. Should the Church today be less ecumenical?

    Is all Scripture 'clear and explicit'? What about 'the mysteries of the kingdom'? In Greek - 'mysterion'.
    Paul's firt reference to 'mysterion' is in 2 Thess 2:7, which has nothing to do with the gospel. Here, Paul is referring to 'the mystery of iniquity', which is a scheme of satan's at work in the world.
    Thereafter, Paul refers to 'God's mystery', which he equates with Jesus Christ Crucified.
    God's plan of salvation for mankind has been hidden in God, and is beyond the understanding of mortal men and beyond the powers of this world. It has now been revealed, first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. The 'mystery of Christ' has a cosmic significance, revealing Christ to be the meaning and the goal of all creation. Through Christ, salvation comes to all mankind, through incorporation into His Body, the Church.
    Paul identifies Christ with the gospel,- both are the power of God. He also speaks of Christ as the wisdom of God, secret and hidden, and not understood by the rulers of this world, who crucified the Lord of glory.
    What is clear in Paul's letters is that this mystery is never fully made known to mankind by ordinary means of communication. Because it is 'revealed', it is only apprehended by faith. Even then, since it is the power and the wisdom and the secret of God, we can never fully comprehend the 'mystery of Christ' in this life.
    See:
    Romans 11:25; 16:25.
    1 Corinthians 2:1, 7; 4:1; 13:2; 14:2; 15:51.
    Ephesians 1:9; 3:3-4, 9; 5:32; 6:19.
    Colossians 1:26-27; 2:2; 4:3.
    1 Timothy




Regarding 1... there are apocryphal books that have been set aside by some denominations including the Wisdom of Solomon which includes one of the most remarkable prophetic accounts of the crucifixion.

In Jesus day the OT scriptures were read in Greek yet later the church gave more weight to the Hebrew text.

However I do believe that His hand has been on the journey towards what we have available to us as 'Scripture' even to reveal the dead sea scrolls including a text of Isaiah 1000+ years older than any other text at a time liberal scholars in Germany were arguing for the unreliability of scripture based on the theory that the text was modified over time. This theory was roundly defeated.

Thanks for your contribution.
 
Upvote 0

LightLoveHope

Jesus leads us to life
Oct 6, 2018
1,475
458
London
✟88,083.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Word of God

Gods heart is expressed in His words and deeds.
When we hear the words and see the deeds its speaks of who He is.
Words are summaries of intentions, attitudes, feelings, contexts, outcomes.

In a sense when our hearts express Gods heart and we speak we speak the word of God.
Like all words they do not stand alone but only have meaning in the minds of speaker and the hearer.

The profound reality is the word of God is only truly reflected in us when we walk in His will filled with the Holy Spirit. If Gods word and intention is rejected by the hearer in their heart, then in a sense they do not hear Gods word at all, it bounces off as if it never existed.

His people know what this means, because Gods word is life to them, while to the rest it is just ramblings of the imagination...... God bless you
 
Upvote 0

food4thought

Loving truth
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
51
Watervliet, MI
✟406,829.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
@food4thought
So your definition of the Word of God does not require the Holy Spirit - you maintain the Scripture without the Spirit is still God's Word ???

This is where the matter must be considered carefully.

Our use of the term "Word of God" seems to become confused when it can refer to several things.

1. The sustaining Word of God that upholds the universe.
2. The Voice of God that communicated directly to Man e.g. at Jesus baptism and Transfiguration.
3. The inner witness of God in the hearts of believers.
4. The evidence of God through creation.
5. Divine understanding of Scripture given by the Holy Spirit.

I think each of these 5 requires the action of the Holy Spirit to be present.

This is why I believe that when Satan tempted Jesus quoting Scripture it was not "God's Word" as the Holy Spirit was not active.

If I write a long love letter, and someone takes a sentence out of context and tries to make what I said mean something entirely different than what I meant, does the love letter cease to be a love letter? Just so, the Bible does not cease to be God-breathed/Spirited when someone misunderstands or deliberately twists it. The problem is not with the Bible, it is with the heart and mind of the reader.

Today's world has a very difficult time understanding the distinction between what is subjective and what is objective. Consider this:

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well the scripture say of itself that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

Folks have quoted scripture in founding cults that are clearly demonic.

Scripture can be understood in a wrong spirit and be seriously deceptive.

The Holy Spirit is needed to bring the Living Word of God to the heart of the reader.

With both Scripture and the Spirit, Truth Himself is manifest.

The Word of God - Jesus - preexisted the Creation and sustains all.

There are may references to this Living Word in Scripture that are not a reference to Scripture itself.

Deifying the Bible is a mistake - the Muslims deify their scripture - that is why they write a text in chalk, rub it out but catch the chalk power then, add water, and drink it.

We must not elevate the Scripture like that, some even consider it part of the Godhead because they confuse the Scripture with the Living Word.

The Living Word is needed to bring the Scripture alive.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: food4thought
Upvote 0

food4thought

Loving truth
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
51
Watervliet, MI
✟406,829.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
@Carl Emerson

Subjective perception does not determine reality as it exists, it only colors one's experience of said reality. Our perception may change future events due to our reaction, but it does not determine what exactly was the reality in that time and place. Can we agree on that much?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Carl Emerson
Upvote 0

food4thought

Loving truth
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
51
Watervliet, MI
✟406,829.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Folks have quoted scripture in founding cults that are clearly demonic.

Scripture can be understood in a wrong spirit and be seriously deceptive.

Perception/interpretation is not reality/intended meaning.

Deifying the Bible is a mistake - the Muslims deify their scripture - that is why they write a text in chalk, rub it out but catch the chalk power then, add water, and drink it.

Does a Muslim deifying the Quran make the Quaran God? Of course not! How one perceives a thing does NOT determine what it is! In the same way, a person cannot change the reality of what the Bible is by rightly or wrongly understanding it... God's intent when breathing/Spiriting it through His chosen vessels determines what it is! Again, how one understands and uses God's written word tells us much about the person regardless of whether they accurately represent what God's intent was.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Carl Emerson
Upvote 0

food4thought

Loving truth
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
51
Watervliet, MI
✟406,829.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ok... I think I may have been failing to understand the point you were making then, sorry. I definitely agree that we can only know the full intent/meaning of the word of God by the Holy Spirit, who opens our minds and hearts to know the Word made flesh, our Lord Jesus, and it is definitely only by the Holy Spirit that we can live out the word of God in our intents, words, and actions.

The title of Word of God given to Jesus by John is true and instructive, but it can and does cause misunderstandings when discussing the nature of God's written word. I've found it helpful to capitalize "Word" when speaking of Jesus, but not when speaking of the scriptures (although I do tend to capitalize Bible because it is a proper title, not a description in most usage). I appreciate your willingness to engage in discussion on this! Please let me know if I'm still misunderstanding you :)
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟440,150.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ok... I think I may have been failing to understand the point you were making then, sorry. I definitely agree that we can only know the full intent/meaning of the word of God by the Holy Spirit, who opens our minds and hearts to know the Word made flesh, our Lord Jesus, and it is definitely only by the Holy Spirit that we can live out the word of God in our intents, words, and actions.

The title of Word of God given to Jesus by John is true and instructive, but it can and does cause misunderstandings when discussing the nature of God's written word. I've found it helpful to capitalize "Word" when speaking of Jesus, but not when speaking of the scriptures (although I do tend to capitalize Bible because it is a proper title, not a description in most usage). I appreciate your willingness to engage in discussion on this! Please let me know if I'm still misunderstanding you :)

Exactly - we are now on the same page...

The reason I often raise this issue is that some folks assume that just because they are quoting Scripture - you better heed what they say because they are quoting "God's Word" when it is being presented in a false context.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: food4thought
Upvote 0
Jul 5, 2022
26
18
38
Pensacola
✟25,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Hi there,

This is a sensitive topic but one that needs to be raised.

It is a strong tradition to refer to the Bible as the 'Word of God'.

Some folks on CF tend to even use Scripture as a weapon - the 'Sword of the Spirit'

You may have experienced this - raise an issue for serious consideration and the response is a barrage of Scripture - often not really addressing the issue.

It is like the Words are presented as magic...

Can I suggest this is not what the 'Word of God' is all about.

Consider the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness - Satans weapon of choice was Scripture.

Was the 'Word of God' being manifest when Satan quoted Scripture?

Absolutely not.

In fact Jesus is the 'Word of God' and Satan presumed to tempt and hopefully deceive Truth Himself with quotes from Scripture !!!

So when is the Scripture 'God's Word' ???

When the quotations are being presented under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

All too often on CF we see a battle of Scripture and this should never be so - clearly the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not motivating the contest, players are simply holding fast to traditional theology by human loyalty, while laying claim to 'God's Word'.

The sad fact is that God's Word - Jesus is not being understood.

Jesus is sustaining all of creation as the Word of God.

Jesus is indwelling true believers and He is not silent.

The Word of God is vastly more magnificent than we could ask or think, He is supreme, we owe Him our all.

He is much more widely active than just enabling us to understand and present Scripture fruitfully. Yet some believe the Scripture is His only opportunity to be heard.

Bow down to the Living Word - Jesus

Reflect on the enormity of His power and splendour.

He wants to bring alive the words written in His special book.

Then to you it will truely be, in that moment, the Word of God.

every word in the Bible is the word of God. It is either all Gods words that can be trusted, or it's not. Theres only two paths. You leave out that Jesus quoted scripture back to Satan in defense his faith in the word of God being his shield. Jesus is the Word but the written word is never capitalized so im.not sure why I see so many people capitalizing the w in word referring to the written word as well
 
Upvote 0