Undecided

[Gawron]

Your link takes one to someplace called Pamshouseblend dot com.

For the record, here is a link to the ERV page at Scienceblogs:

erv

and here is a link to the original web page where ERV states she is going to scienceblogs:

ERV

and here is a link that works to the thread you cited:

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspo...sh my mouth][wash my mouth]-for-jesus_20.html

What's your point? The atheist dream sequence is there, just as I posted it. I don't care about sally kern and that was not the issue.

But nice attempt at a dodge.

 

[Gawron]

Ranunclulus, please see post numbers 76 and 79.

I stated that this was only one example. The web is full of examples like this, but I trust that if you guys really want to research it, you can do that without my help.

 

[ranunculus]

In addition, I have posted the following a number of times both on these forums and others around the web asking the atheist to reconcile these words with their supposed non-belief. To date, I have yet to get a response.

I originally found this posted on ScienceBlogs on the ERV page. It is titled the "atheist dream sequence," and I qoute in its entirity.

"*atheist dream sequence*

Churches turned into libraries. The mega churches into schools. Pews chopped into lumber to rebuild New Orleans. All the shiny s*** melted into scrap metal and all those god awful 'Christian Rock' CDs thrown into a food processor. The Bible is required reading for an ancient literature course that students dread more than Herodotus. Crazy motherf***ers like Kern living in compounds in the hills, waiting for THE HOMO MAN to come eat their children, but never in a political office. Never daring to speak their hateful thoughts around humans."

If atheism is such a benign non-belief, explain this.

So you've found an atheist blog post venting against religiously fueled bigotry. Again, just one atheist, not speaking for anyone but him/herself. What the rant about? How the world would be nicer if:
- bigots didn't hold office
-the churches where the bigots get their bigotry are turned into something useful for society like libraries
-if awful music were turned into food for starving people.

how evil right? note how none of those propositions involve hurting people or destroying society.

 

[Belk]

This is what is amazing about attempting to discuss this issue with atheist. How can you guys be so intellectually enlightened and superior while at the same time incapable of drawing an inference or extrapolating to a conclusion based on compiling evidence all at the same time?

I think your mistake is in believing your evidence to be compelling. An article on an Atheist blog talking about ERV's showing evolution to be true is vastly different then an article claiming evolution disproves religion.

 

[ranunculus]

Ranunclulus, please see post numbers 76 and 79.

I stated that this was only one example. The web is full of examples like this, but I trust that if you guys really want to research it, you can do that without my help.

Atheism isn't a club. Every atheist believes something different (apart from non belief in spirits). You can't extrapolate one person's opinion to demonstrate some grand scheme that every atheist is working towards.

That's like saying the KKK speaks for every christian.

 

[Gawron]

For the third time, I posted that link as one example. But the articles you reference, Belk, are out there as well. I am simply not going to do all of your work for you.

 

[Gawron]

Posted by ranunculus:

"how evil right? note how none of those propositions involve hurting people or destroying society."

Lets suppose this exact same line from the quote "Never daring to speak their hateful thoughts around humans" and put it in the context of being posted on any website but targeted at black people, or Jews, or Muslims. I suppose your support for the comment then would be the same?

And I did not promote some grand scheme, only that the agenda exist and is promoted by those within the realm of atheism and/or evolutionary science.

 

[Belk]

For the third time, I posted that link as one example. But the articles you reference, Belk, are out there as well. I am simply not going to do all of your work for you.

Then perhaps you should find one of them to use as an example? Since it is your point that you are trying to support it is not my homework. I don't feel the need top research all unsupported claims made on a website. Especially since the example provided in no way supports your contention.

 

[ranunculus]

For the third time, I posted that link as one example. But the articles you reference, Belk, are out there as well. I am simply not going to do all of your work for you.

Even if there were a thousand atheist blogs using science articles to try and disprove God, so what? You're not arguing against atheism, you're arguing against stupidity.

 

[ranunculus]

And I did not promote some grand scheme, only that the agenda exist and is promoted by those within the realm of atheism and/or evolutionary science.

You're contradicting yourself in just one sentence.

 

[ranunculus]

Posted by ranunculus:

"how evil right? note how none of those propositions involve hurting people or destroying society."

Lets suppose this exact same line from the quote "Never daring to speak their hateful thoughts around humans" and put it in the context of being posted on any website but targeted at black people, or Jews, or Muslims. I suppose your support for the comment then would be the same?

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Are you saying that this quote " never daring to speak..." could be used to quell the rights and freedom of minorities? It's the exact opposite of that.

 

[razzelflabben]

This is what is amazing about attempting to discuss this issue with atheist. How can you guys be so intellectually enlightened and superior while at the same time incapable of drawing an inference or extrapolating to a conclusion based on compiling evidence all at the same time?

that's the wonders of evolution at work....hehehehehe, I'm just mucking with you all, don't shoot me...enjoy your debate. (those of you who take time to know me know I'm a skeptic)

 

[sandwiches]

I mentioned peace, and joy and love, these are not feelings...these are deeper...there is a whole list, but these are the three I focused in on, so let's talk about them a moment.

Peace is an inner calm that comes from a perfect trust. In other words the "feelings" associated from peace are really rooted in the attitude and action of trust.

Joy likewise is an inner attitude of confidence in that thing that we take joy in, an inner confidence so great that it spurs us to have a joy when the world says we should not.

Love also is one of these things that transcend both emotions and actions and attitudes if you will. It is an action in which one puts others above self, and cannot be done unless the condition of the heart is in line with scripture. IOW's, it is something supernatural in nature, something that defies the world and it's laws. It isn't just a compassion, it goes way beyond compassion. It isn't just mercy, it goes way beyond mercy, it's an act of true servanthood. You know what is funny? I've been trying for a long time to get anyone on the forum to talk about God's love according to scripture, and no one is willing to, that is how big and impressive it is...ah well, these things all go beyond emotions which is the point and I apologize for getting a bit zealous about all I have been learning about real love.

I experience all those now and I experienced all those then. Is something wrong with me?

 

[sandwiches]

You know, sandwiches, it is easy, pitifully easy, to come on and simply start calling names. Your entire response amounts to nothing more than "liar liar pants on fire". I could have gotten a better argument on the third grade playground.

If you're going to make accusations, back them up with facts. Period.

Posted by driewerf:

"To date, the only ones who link evolution with religious matters are the creationists and biblical literalists."

This isn't true, but note that I am not stooping to the childish level of calling you names, I am simply saying you are mistaken.

ROFL
The irony is off the charts, captain!

The cry on these forums is always the same, "provide links provide links provide links or what you say isn't true!" Are we to take from this that those who ask for such proof are incapable of researching anything themselves? Regardless, here is one for you from GodbeGone, posted under the header of Atheist News:

How Endogenous Retroviruses Prove Evolution

Link: [GBG] Atheist News: How Endogenous Retroviruses Prove Evolution

Note that I am not trying to critique the article, just providing one example of an atheist website where evolutionary science is used in an attempt to disprove god.

So, an article talking about how ERVs are evidence for evolution is the same as an article saying that ERVs disprove religion? Sorry, man... your prejudice is showing.

 

[razzelflabben]

I experience all those now and I experienced all those then. Is something wrong with me?

not to my knowledge, so what then are you trusting in, what are you confident in, now and then?

 

[sandwiches]

And I did not promote some grand scheme, only that the agenda exist and is promoted by those within the realm of atheism and/or evolutionary science.

Wow...

 

[sandwiches]

not to my knowledge, so what then are you trusting in, what are you confident in, now and then?

In general, in specific cases, or what?

 

[Gawron]

Posted by ranculus:

“Are you saying that this quote " never daring to speak..."

No. What you have done is taken part of the quote I posted and attempted to use it to propose I said something I did not. The entire quote is

“Never daring to speak their hateful thoughts around humans.”

My question was simple. If you found this quote as part of a commentary targeted at blacks, or Jews, or Muslims, would your support for the comment be the same? Suppose the overall comment was targeted at Muslims and included the word masque. Would you support it then?

“You're contradicting yourself in just one sentence.”

I do not see that. My comment in post number 65 reads

“The atheist propaganda on many of those websites promotes exactly that ideal…”

My use of the term atheist was not and is not inclusive of all atheist, and my use of the term “many” does not include all websites, only many out there. Just look around science blogs, there is even a math guy who routinely rails against creationist. However, my subsequent use of the term atheist is within this context, atheist who promote the agenda of using evolutionary science to denounce Christians and creationist whenever and wherever possible. Happens around here all the time.

Here is an example from these forums:

Posted by Mike Elphick, post number six, from the thread Is there any evidence for creation?

Quote:

“However, it is basically a variation of the argument from ignorance where lack of knowledge dulls a person's comprehension. However, increasing knowledge of a subject can eventually lead to a proper understanding and eventual acceptance.”

Source: http://www.christianforums.com/t7487660/

Seems he is echoing my point. Increasing knowledge, proper understanding and eventual acceptance? Just another way of saying ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

Here is another example of what I am saying, again from these very forums.

Posted by ukgrace, post number one, from the thread entitled Are There Any Creationist Here:

“Are there any creationists here who have a working knowledge of evolution? or are you able to make up your mind about evolution without even knowing what evolution is all about.

Put another way, do you understand what it is that you don't believe?”

And the answer given in post number three as stated by Hespera:

“If they did, they would quit being creationists.”

Source: http://www.christianforums.com/t7482683/

Posted by sandwiches:

“So, an article talking about how ERVs are evidence for evolution is the same as an article saying that ERVs disprove religion?”

Taken in the context of where the article was posted and the heading it was posted under, it does not require much of an effort to discern the intent of the article. Besides, the writer did not state that ERVs are evidence of evolution, he stated in the title that they prove evolution.

 

[razzelflabben]

In general, in specific cases, or what?

this whole discussion is a discussion about faith, so the question then would be, if you are living in faith, as evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit, what is your faith in...what was it in when you were a believer, and what is it in now that you aren't? What or better where is the peace in the midst of storms, joy in the midst of sorrow, love when you should (according to the world) hate, etc. Gal. 5....where are these things coming from? If evidence of faith is still there, what is your faith in? How has your faith changed? It's a look at faith from the beginning to now...if your faith in God once brought these things, what is your faith in now, that is bringing these things?

I hope that clarifies the question enough, you certainly don't have to answer but I am curious and would love an answer just for my own curiosity...

 

[sandwiches]

this whole discussion is a discussion about faith, so the question then would be, if you are living in faith, as evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit, what is your faith in...what was it in when you were a believer, and what is it in now that you aren't? What or better where is the peace in the midst of storms, joy in the midst of sorrow, love when you should (according to the world) hate, etc. Gal. 5....where are these things coming from? If evidence of faith is still there, what is your faith in? How has your faith changed? It's a look at faith from the beginning to now...if your faith in God once brought these things, what is your faith in now, that is bringing these things?

I hope that clarifies the question enough, you certainly don't have to answer but I am curious and would love an answer just for my own curiosity...

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that I'm still faithful. I'm not. I'm also not claiming that I have evidence of my faith. I don't. What I am saying is that I experience all the things you mention now and I felt them while I considered myself faithful, religious, or whatever. I don't feel any less a person or joyful now that I don't have the same faith I had.

I used to think we had guardian angels, that Jesus was watching over us, that God would deal with the bad guys, that God loved me eternally no matter what, etc. So, I'm guessing that's where my feelings of security used to come from.

Nowadays, I get this sense of happiness, tranquility, and peace from several places and sources. For instance, I've been through some bad times before but just knowing that I have my health and that life is more than the moment at hand, I know that I can weather just about any problem that comes at me. I also have a supporting and loving family. I have good friends, I work hard for what I earn and try to appreciate even the small and large things that come my way.

I don't know... It may be pathological but I'm a generally very happy and relaxed person and I'm very much at peace with myself, my life, and eventual death. And the funny thing is, I'm not even an optimist. I would say I'm more of a realist but I've been called a 'pessimist' from time to time.

So short answer: As far as I can tell, I would say my source of tranquility, joy, and love is my own will.