Unbelief, is it a sin?

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Biblical facts are the best answers when it come to God and belief, is it not?

How were you saved, human wisdom, or by hearing the gospel?

There are no facts in the Bible. There are truths in the Bible. Facts are what the secularists want. Truths are what is to be believed to be saved.

All that aside, you didn't respond to her, you responded to yourself and that didn't resolve anything.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Biblical facts are the best answers when it come to God and belief, is it not?

How were you saved, human wisdom, or by hearing the gospel?

You are in the right.

The gospel is plain, and easy to understand: I'm a great sinner, and Christ is a great Savior. That's the entrance exam, so the intellect is never the issue in "unbelief". The issue is always the will. There is always an "I will not" under all "unbelief", and no argument will persuade the will, only God can do that. Our job is to present the clear message of the gospel, and God must do the rest. He promises to do so.

As some wise person once said, "The only thing you need, is need, but few have it."

 

[EmSw]

You may want to reread the Calvin quote. You've got it all wrong.

Then please explain this, 'Our wisdom, in so far as it ought to be deemed true and solid'.

Well, should human wisdom be deemed true and solid?

I also see you said this, 'A true knowledge of self is sometimes a better starting point than knowledge of God'. What will a person find when he starts with self instead of God?

 

[EmSw]

Biblical facts are the best answers when it come to God and belief, is it not?

How were you saved, human wisdom, or by hearing the gospel?

According to another person on this thread, 'a true knowledge of self is sometimes a better starting point than knowledge of God'.

 

[Patmos]

Above I wrote:

…..Chart comparing Calvinism and Arminianism..

Under Predestination it says " ....By God's eternal decree, he foreordained eternal life for his chosen and damnation for those who reject him". Fine, but then,

Under the Freewill heading it has "By God's common grace, they can make some good choices but cannot choose to believe in Jesus Christ.

And concluded with

So, God foreordained eternal damnation to those who rejects him (fine) but disables man from choosing to accept him. ….

If my conclusion is correct how does this help out Mountain_Girl06?

I want to believe and have prayed for the gift of faith, but God hasn't answered yet. So I hope not.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Then please explain this, 'Our wisdom, in so far as it ought to be deemed true and solid'.

Well, should human wisdom be deemed true and solid?

I also see you said this, 'A true knowledge of self is sometimes a better starting point than knowledge of God'. What will a person find when he starts with self instead of God?

This is just like an Arminian ripping verses out of context. . . Read the statement as a whole.

Both answers are there. Please read, slowly.

A person will find his need. Starting will self means starting with self examination, and self-examination against God's law. Why did Jesus preach the Sermon on the Mount? Was it not to expose the hearer? The law exposes the lie that we have believed from birth, that we are autonomous, that we are gods. We must first come to understand that lie before we can understand the truth. The old must be emptied before the new can fill it.

 

[EmSw]

Just like an Arminian ripping verses out of context. . . Read the statement as a whole.

Both answers are there. Please read, slowly.

A person will find need. Starting will self means starting with self examination, and self-examination against God's law. Why did Jesus preach the Sermon on the Mount? Was it not to expose the hearer? The law exposes the lie that we have believed from birth, that we are autonomous, that we are gods. We must first come to understand that lie before we can understand the truth. The old must be emptied before the new can fill it.

I am not willing to read it as a whole slowly.

Can an unsaved, totally depraved person really examine himself? What will he find? God? The truth? Can the unsaved really understand that lie according to Calvinism? Now you are putting too much emphasis and power on man.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

You are in the right.

The gospel is plain, and easy to understand: I'm a great sinner, and Christ is a great Savior. That's the entrance exam, so the intellect is never the issue in "unbelief". The issue is always the will. There is always an "I will not" under all "unbelief", and no argument will persuade the will, only God can do that. Our job is to present the clear message of the gospel, and God must do the rest. He promises to do so.

As some wise person once said, "The only thing you need, is need, but few have it."

The challenge this presents me is this. .I can recognize that I have need, that I require help to reach my potential and set my foot on the right path, and I can call on God for that. But with that as the only starting point, how do I get to the right God, especially if I was raised in a culture that worshipped a different God or gods?

It seems to me that to establish oneself as having faith in God as described bu a particular religion, you have to build at least three links. The first is that anything supernatural exists at all. The second that (for many religions) this consists of a creator God, a single entity (that for Christians can be considered as a trinity ). The third (assuming the first two point to Christianity for a person ), is that your denomination holds the best understanding of the nature of the Trinity.

What humans can take as evidence varies in my opinion from link to link. I don't necessarily mean evidence in a scientific sense, maybe more in a courtroom sense or a personal sense.

To establish the last link (that one denomination is closest in understanding) you might look at church writings, the preaching of key figures in a denomination's history, and so on, and compare it to the Bible. To establish the second link, that the idea of a single God/Trinity is the best understanding, you might compare the Bible with other known religious writings.
For the first link, evidence as we typically think of it fails in the sense that the whole idea of supernatural is beyond evidence in any scientific sense.
What I've noticed is that a personal experience often becomes the best evidence in this case. Perhaps that's the gift of the Holy Spirit acting on people. ..giving them a deep experience of the presence of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think life conditions on earth are perfect, or at least close enough, for all living things that successfully evolved to live here. Things that aren't perfectly suitable would go extinct....and many species of living things have.
I believe love, compassion and a sense of justice exist, but I think that for single celled organizes to evolve into complex mammals that require community to survive these are necessary traits.
I see beauty, and am in fact quite in awe of the universe. I've been moved to study it and have been quite humbled by the age of the universe, the size of it and the diversity of it.

As to your second post, I will check out the link. I may have posted it earlier, but I don't identify as an atheist, but a Catholic agnostic, so I can read all parts of the list site. I may not be convinced that God exists, but I keep looking, I attend Church, read the Bible, study everything I can relating to religion, philosophy and physics, and pray. I haven't given up that I might someday hear from God, even though I've struggled with disbelief for about 40 years.

Rather than debate (at this time), I added a video to my thread on Biblical evidences that may be of interest to you. It is a video by Dr. Menton and the miracles that take place when life comes about. He is a funny, entertaining, and intelligent speaker. At least for me. So I hope you get a chance to hear what he has to say.

I added a thread link below that will take you directly to that post (within the thread) so that you can check out the video.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...blical-evidences.7833944/page-2#post-69433614

May God bless you and have a wonderful day.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, it is written...

13 "And you shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart.
14 And I will be found of you, says the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity"
(Jeremiah 29:13-14).

...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I am not willing to read it as a whole slowly.

Too much to ask to read a short paragraph? How than can we debate anything?

 

[EmSw]

Too much to ask to read a short paragraph? How than can we debate anything?

I did read it the first you presented it. I understood it to mean something different than you do. Just because I read slowly will not change my perception of what it means. I asked you for your explanation of what you thought it meant.

 

[Foghorn]

There are no facts in the Bible. There are truths in the Bible. Facts are what the secularists want. Truths are what is to be believed to be saved.

All that aside, you didn't respond to her, you responded to yourself and that didn't resolve anything.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[Foghorn]

According to another person on this thread, 'a true knowledge of self is sometimes a better starting point than knowledge of God'.

Well it is by hearing the gospel facts and the Holy Spirit convicting and applying it that we acquire a true knowledge of ourselves and God, is it not? When we acquire the knowledge of God we realize we are helpless, sinful lost sinners who can do nothing of ourselves.
Not the labors of my hands
can fulfill thy law's commands;
could my zeal no respite know,
could my tears forever flow,
all for sin could not atone;
thou must save, and thou alone.

Nothing in my hand I bring,
simply to the cross I cling;

Those who think they have something they can contribute are like the rich man,....
Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, He said to him, “One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

What you think you have, some small speck of goodness, a measure of faith, is your wealth and it all needs to be sold. When you know who God is, you come with nothing in your hands and simply cling to Christ.

 

[Foghorn]

Above I wrote:
And concluded with

If my conclusion is correct how does this help out Mountain_Girl06?

Thanks for saying this patmos, I feel I may have caused some confusion?

However, like I said there are some good signs she has mentioned which seems (to me) like God's grace in her life.

As far as what is predestined, none of us can know, this is not given unto man to know who His elect are. Our job, as I am sure you agree, is to proclaim the gospel.

 

[Foghorn]

This is just like an Arminian ripping verses out of context. . . Read the statement as a whole.

Both answers are there. Please read, slowly.

A person will find his need. Starting will self means starting with self examination, and self-examination against God's law. Why did Jesus preach the Sermon on the Mount? Was it not to expose the hearer? The law exposes the lie that we have believed from birth, that we are autonomous, that we are gods. We must first come to understand that lie before we can understand the truth. The old must be emptied before the new can fill it.

Amen brother! If a person does not realize his sin, he needs no Saviour.

 

[Foghorn]

I am not willing to read it as a whole slowly.

Can an unsaved, totally depraved person really examine himself? What will he find? God? The truth? Can the unsaved really understand that lie according to Calvinism? Now you are putting too much emphasis and power on man.

Are you under the impression that man has to see himself as good before he can be saved?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Why is it that there are so many religious people out there who thinks that reading scripture will help out those who don't believe in God. It's unfathomable.

The Bible is the word of God and if someone doesn't believe in God, the Bible has no significance. From what I've understood about After, running away from home to get away from the JW's, I found out the Bible is first and foremost a book of wisdom. This was after I walking away from religion and God. I was tired of listening to everybody tell me what was in there and tossing out scripture they thought pertained to whatever situation they were in. I sat down some 9 years latter and read the thing from cover to cover.

I found out much that I hadn't heard before and much of what i had was misrepresented by those who had schooled me before. It still happens today and I've seen it happen on this very site. It is these incidents that do the most damage to the Christian community and it's a major reason why so many who are skeptical of Christianity simply roll their eyes when it happens to them.

This is why I posted what I posted and you can call it opinion all you want to. That doesn't mean that it isn't true to those you are trying to reach. That also doesn't mean what you posted was not for you, since to you it filled the bill and you were satisfied with it.I'm going to do you the favor of not dismissing you as you did me with this "Thanks for sharing your opinion. " stuff.

P.S. My acceptance of God came much latter and after and that came internally and the effects were immediate.

 

[Foghorn]

The challenge this presents me is this. .I can recognize that I have need, that I require help to reach my potential and set my foot on the right path, and I can call on God for that. But with that as the only starting point, how do I get to the right God, especially if I was raised in a culture that worshipped a different God or gods?

Well Mountain girl, we are talking about the God of the bible,....So, look in the bible that is where you will get to know Him.

 

[Foghorn]

Too much to ask to read a short paragraph? How than can we debate anything?

Sounds like someone is selling echos. As long as that continues you wont be able to debate anything.