Unbelief, is it a sin?

[Foghorn]

Why is it that there are so many religious people out there who thinks that reading scripture will help out those who don't believe in God. It's unfathomable.

Ummm, ... Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Do you know a better way?

The Bible is the word of God and if someone doesn't believe in God, the Bible has no significance. From what I've understood about The Bible, after I'd ran away from home to get away from the JW's is that the Bible is first and foremost a book of wisdom. I was tired of listening to everybody tell me what was in there and tossing out scripture they thought pertained to whatever situation they were in. I sat down some 9 years latter and read the thing from cover to cover.

The power of the gospel does not change. Also, it is good for you to remember, the gospel is offensive to many.

I found out much that I hadn't heard before and much of what i had was misrepresented by those who had schooled me before. It still happens today and I've seen it happen on this very site. It is these incidents that do the most damage to the Christian community and it's a major reason why so many who are skeptical of Christianity simply roll their eyes when it happens to them.

Why do you give so much power and credit to man?

This is why I posted what I posted and you can call it opinion all you want to.

Well, that's exactly what it is, your opinion.

That doesn't mean that it isn't true to those you are trying to reach. That also doesn't mean what you posted was not for you, since to you it filled the bill and you were satisfied with it.I'm going to do you the favor of not dismissing you as you did me with this "Thanks for sharing your opinion. " stuff.

I pray God may open your eyes to His wonderful truths and that you will realize your opinion are powerless, the power unto salvation is the Gospel (the Word of God).

P.S. My acceptance of God came much latter and after and that came internally and the effects were immediate.

Glory to God alone!

 

[oldthennew]

how could unbelief be 'un-belief in Christ's heart, if you have never received it?

 

[Foghorn]

how could unbelief be 'un-belief in Christ's heart, if you have never received it?

I'm not following. Care to elaborate?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Ummm, ... Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

I are you saying that I'm ashamed of something here?

Do you know a better way?

I know the way that I took and that was by acknowledging the philosophical ideal that the BIble speaks of, mostly in the new testament ans emphasizing that in an attempt to get people to actually become interested in the Bible. The media has demonized Christian for far too long and we need to show those willing to listen that the Bible is not just a book of condemnation, but a book about life and living a life worth living.

Once you get past the hurdles of idealistic prejudice you have a less rocky road and you have planted a seed within the person

The power of the gospel does not change. Also, it is good for you to remember, the gospel is offensive to many.
Why do you give so much power and credit to man?

That which the media has done is much more of an offense to those people than anything within the Bible. They have been taught the negativity they give the Bible and we need not add to that by dismissing their arguments outright and thinking that what is relevant to us is relevant to them.

I don't give power or credit to anyone other than God. I simply try to understand those whom I speak to and Taylor my approach according to that. If you wish to speak to someone and be understood, It is best to speak to them in a manner that they will respond to and that is not preaching to them as if they were undeserving of any other approach. They are deserving and the more you speak to them, the better you can understand them. When you see someone as the person they are and allow them to see you in the same light then you open up doors that bring greater opportunities than you ever thought possible and the possibility of finding God is multiplied exponentially.

Well, that's exactly what it is, your opinion.

You have no idea what my opinion is. You haven't heard me out. You've simply dismissed me.

I pray God may open your eyes to His wonderful truths and that you will realize your opinion are powerless, the power unto salvation is the Gospel (the Word of God).

Glory to God alone!

Like I said you haven't been listening to me at all. What you don't understand is that before the teachings of Christ were called Gospels, they were teachings and Jesus not only spoke the words he taught in a certain manner that many have yet to duplicate. One of his major mannerisms was to speak to people not at them.

 

[oldthennew]

how could unbelief be 'un-belief in Christ's heart, if you have never received it?

you answered your own question my love,,,

 

[Foghorn]

I are you saying that I'm ashamed of something here?

I am not saying any such thing.
Do you have a guilty conscience?

If you go back and read again, you will see I was replying to your post with scripture. It seems to me you ignored the point.

I know the way that I took and that was by acknowledging the philosophical ideal that the BIble speaks of, mostly in the new testament ans emphasizing that in an attempt to get people to actually become interested in the Bible.

That's the problem with the church today, it stinks of postmodernism.

The media has demonized Christian for far too long and we need to show those willing to listen that the Bible is not just a book of condemnation, but a book about life and living a life worth living.

And what better way then by the gospel.

Once you get past the hurdles of idealistic prejudice you have a less rocky road and you have planted a seed within the person

No where in the parable of the sower do I find the teaching that one has to use philosophy.

That which the media has done is much more of an offense to those people than anything within the Bible.

Your seeing the results and reaction of those (the media) who are offended by God's word. What the media does is falsely translates it and or uses worldly philosophy and wisdom. Don't get caught up in that.

They have been taught the negativity they give the Bible and we need not add to that by dismissing their arguments outright and thinking that what is relevant to us is relevant to them.

You just need to proclaim the gospel, God will do the saving. You do not have the power to pull anyone out of the devil's grip.

I don't give power or credit to anyone other than God. I simply try to understand those whom I speak to and Taylor my approach according to that.

Respectfully, that's your problem. That's compromise.

If you wish to speak to someone and be understood, It is best to speak to them in a manner that they will respond to and that is not preaching to them as if they were undeserving of any other approach.

So, we should preach without using scripture?

They are deserving and the more you speak to them, the better you can understand them.

What part of them do you feel the need to understand? The lost are, lost dead sinners at enmity with God. What is so difficult to understand about that? It is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit which will pull them from the pits of hell, yours or anyone elses philosophy and counseling is powerless for such a task.

When you see someone as the person they are and allow them to see you in the same light then you open up doors that bring greater opportunities than you ever thought possible and the possibility of finding God is multiplied exponentially.

Again, it is the gospel that saves. Yes, be a friend, get to know the person, but, "Give Them The Gospel!"
Do you have a burden fo the lost, or a burden for friends?

You have no idea what my opinion is. You haven't heard me out. You've simply dismissed me.

I have dismissed nothing but worldly philosophy and postmodernism. You have expressed your ideas, beliefs and opinions, which I disagree with.

Like I said you haven't been listening to me at all.

Like I said, I have and have been listening to you.

What you don't understand is that before the teachings of Christ were called Gospels, they were teachings and Jesus not only spoke the words he taught in a certain manner that many have yet to duplicate. One of his major mannerisms was to speak to people not at them.

Yes, and nothing you ever teach will become scripture. It's complete.

 

[Foghorn]

you answered your own question my love,,,

Empty clatter.

 

[oldthennew]

dear one,
empty clatter only belongs to those who cannot hear...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Crazy night on CF.

 

[EmSw]

Well it is by hearing the gospel facts and the Holy Spirit convicting and applying it that we acquire a true knowledge of ourselves and God, is it not? When we acquire the knowledge of God we realize we are helpless, sinful lost sinners who can do nothing of ourselves.

That's not what was said, and you know it. Here is what was said, 'a true knowledge of self is sometimes a better starting point than knowledge of God'. What is a true knowledge of self? Why should a man make a knowledge of his true self the starting point?

If he hears the gospel and the Spirit convicts, then the starting point is not with man, unless it is the fact man starts by hearing the gospel. What unregenerate man desires to hear the gospel? Can an unregenerate man, not only desire the gospel, but is he able to hear the Spirit in his lost state?

Jesus did not say to find a true knowledge of self. Instead He said to deny yourself.

Those who think they have something they can contribute are like the rich man,....
Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, He said to him, “One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

What you think you have, some small speck of goodness, a measure of faith, is your wealth and it all needs to be sold. When you know who God is, you come with nothing in your hands and simply cling to Christ.

So, does man think he can contribute by finding his true knowledge of self before a true knowledge of God?

 

[Foghorn]

Jesus did not say to find a true knowledge of self. Instead He said to deny yourself.

Did you not say this either?

By denying ones self they acknowledge Christ.

So, does man think he can contribute by finding his true knowledge of self before a true knowledge of God?

It's funny, you said, "That's not what was said, and you know it."
Then you ask this question?

Good grief!

 

[EmSw]

A person will find his need. Starting will self means starting with self examination, and self-examination against God's law. Why did Jesus preach the Sermon on the Mount? Was it not to expose the hearer? The law exposes the lie that we have believed from birth, that we are autonomous, that we are gods. We must first come to understand that lie before we can understand the truth. The old must be emptied before the new can fill it.

Will an unregenerate person seek and find his need? Will an unregenerate even examine himself against God's law? How can an unregenerate understand anything of God?

 

[Foghorn]

Will an unregenerate person seek and find his need? Will an unregenerate even examine himself against God's law? How can an unregenerate understand anything of God?

By the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration, of course.

 

[EmSw]

Did you not say this either?

By denying ones self they acknowledge Christ.

It's funny, you said, "That's not what was said, and you know it."
Then you ask this question?

Good grief!

Look, your fellow believer brought it up.

Actually, one not only have to deny himself, but he must take up his cross and then follow Jesus.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[Foghorn]

Actually, one not only have to deny himself, but he must take up his cross and then follow Jesus.

Just how is a lost unregenerate sinner able to do such a thing?

 

[EmSw]

Just how is a lost unregenerate sinner able to do such a thing?

You forget, I don't believe the same thing you do. Any lost man is able to hear the words of Jesus and obey them.

How does a lost man understand the things of the Spirit in order to be regenerated?

 

[Foghorn]

You forget, I don't believe the same thing you do. Any lost man is able to hear the words of Jesus and obey them.

So your a Pelagian?

How does a lost man understand the things of the Spirit in order to be regenerated?

Don't be silly. Understanding and sight comes after regeneration.

 

[EmSw]

So your a Pelagian?

So, you're a Catholic Augustinian?

Don't be silly. Understanding and sight comes after regeneration.

Really? Here's what Peter said -

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Man is only regenerated by the living word of God, not before. How is the depraved man able to hear, even desire to hear, and understand the living word before he is regenerated? Does he have faith in the word to be born again?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I am not saying any such thing.
Do you have a guilty conscience?

I find it more productive when confronted with a veiled post to ask a question and let the perpetrator reveal his own intentions. Thank you for revealing yours in your last sentence there .

If you go back and read again, you will see I was replying to your post with scripture. It seems to me you ignored the point.

No you responded to my post by quoting scripture. If you would have answered anything you would have stated what that scripture meant to you and how that relates to the present conversation. That's talking to a person. Just throwing out scripture is talking at someone and it doesn't endear anyone to you.

That's the problem with the church today, it stinks of postmodernism.

Philosophy is a manner in which you deal with the world and it has been around since before the Greeks ever gave it a name.

And what better way then by the gospel.

I said throwing scripture around. The Gospels are just a part of the Bible and they need to be explained and talked about as much as every other part of the Bible. The issue is that they are not being discussed. People are just quoting a passage here and a passage there and tossing it out as is, as if a person not familiar with it would benefit by it as it is given them.

No where in the parable of the sower do I find the teaching that one has to use philosophy.

The seed I'm talking about is the seed of interest and you plant that by taking enough interest in people to let them know they matter. That's what I'm talking about when I say talking to a person instead of talking at them.

Your seeing the results and reaction of those (the media) who are offended by God's word. What the media does is falsely translates it and or uses worldly philosophy and wisdom. Don't get caught up in that.

I see the effects of indoctrination every day and I confront that the same way I confront any other type of prejudice. Directly and in person. That's what I do and I've done it since the time I found out that there was something better than being angry over what other people wanted me to be angry about.

You just need to proclaim the gospel, God will do the saving. You do not have the power to pull anyone out of the devil's grip.

But I do have the power to speak to those who are in the grip of intolerating intolerance, or what they've been told intolerance is.

Respectfully, that's your problem. That's compromise.

No that's not compromise. That's saying what needs to be said so that I can be understood by those listening to me.

So, we should preach without using scripture?

Where did I say that. I said don't throw scripture at people. That's like throwing a piece of paper at someone with a sentence written on it and thinking they will get something out of that. You need to explain that.

What part of them do you feel the need to understand? The lost are, lost dead sinners at enmity with God. What is so difficult to understand about that? It is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit which will pull them from the pits of hell, yours or anyone elses philosophy and counseling is powerless for such a task.

You don't understand people you will never get close enough for them to understand you. Especially when you have the media telling them how crazy we all are.

Again, it is the gospel that saves. Yes, be a friend, get to know the person, but, "Give Them The Gospel!"
Do you have a burden fo the lost, or a burden for friends?

what?

I have dismissed nothing but worldly philosophy and postmodernism. You have expressed your ideas, beliefs and opinions, which I disagree with.
Like I said, I have and have been listening to you.

You haven't even understood what I've been saying. How can you disagree with me. You are thinking that since I stated not to throw scripture at people that I meant not us it. Have you ever thought it was your delivery that I was against and not the subject matter. I've explained this as much as I can. So please ask me what I mean instead of telling me what you think I mean. This goes dirrectly with my statement that you are talking at people instead of to them.

Yes, and nothing you ever teach will become scripture. It's complete.

Right over your head. Please if you would ask me instead of insinuating things. I'm not the mental image that's emanating from your imagination. I'm real and I'm me.

 

[Foghorn]

So, you're a Catholic Augustinian?

Why no, why do you ask?

Really? Here's what Peter said -

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Amen!

Man is only regenerated by the living word of God, not before.

Ummm, not before what?

How is the depraved man able to hear, even desire to hear, and understand the living word before he is regenerated? Does he have faith in the word to be born again?

Is your faith in your faith? Or, is your faith in Christ?

If you caused yourself to be born again, it was in your faith.

If God caused you to be born again, it's in Christ.

Can you see the difference?