Ultimate Blasphemy?

[ScottBot]

Ask them. I've quit trying to figure people out. I was beginning to drive me insane.

 

[Oblio]

Vincent, when Oblio keeps calling people Nestorians because they don't agree with him...that is immature. Why can't people here act like adults and talk?

I said that Nestorians deny that Mary is the Theotokos. This is historical fact. If someone wishes to equivocate another members view with that of a group that denied basic Christological truths (that being that Jesus Christ has always been God) that is their doing, not mine.

 

[TheDivaAngel]

I said that Nestorians deny that Mary is the Theotokos. This is historical fact. If someone wishes to equivocate another's members view with that of a group that denied basic Christological truths (that being that Jesus Christ has always been God) that is their doing, not mine.

Did I say I did?? You get alot of exercise jumping to conclusions. NO one said they didn't believe this. Do you read? or just jump all over people?

 

[Nimrauko]

see that little report button?? PUSH it...report me for what? That is just nonsense and immature.' Nimrauko....you are still a child. I have 2 sons your age. I don't need you telling me what to do and how to act. If you want to play in the big leagues..grow up a bit.

Vincent, when Oblio keeps calling people Nestorians because they don't agree with him...that is immature. Why can't people here act like adults and talk?

When a peron is wrong they are wrong, I dont care personally if you are a hundred and nine years old. I am telling you all to watch what you are saying because its going against the rules. If you do not like that take it up with a mod. Anymore rudeness directed toward me I will report you again. I did not come here to be harrassed. And if you dont want to hear me, then follow the guidelines set up on this site.

God Bless,

SMM

 

[SeraphimSarov]

NOTE who is doing the name calling...the good ole RCC's and EO's..nice black eye for them!

Referring to the Nestorian heresy is name calling? Wow.

 

[Andrew74]

I'm not sure I get where everyone is coming from here.

The protestant ones are saying they rely solely on scripture and not the traditions of men. So is that worshipping a book then rather then God? A book inspired by God, yes, but written and translated by men. It would also seem a little self-worship if you believe you can interpert and know everything God wants you to know because you have the holy spirit to guide you, you're still a man.

The Roman church people say they are guided by scripture and tradition, yet their church has gone so far from 'tradition' of the early church leaders that the doctrine of the Roman church today may just be quite confusing for many of them early church leaders.

Think the Orthodox guys make a lot of sense, probably why my priest's best friend is an orthodox monk.

Just as a note there were people in the early church that elevated Mary to a status of goddess, I don't remember the name of the group but they didn't last long as they were declared heretics fairly quickly. There have been points where the veneration of saints has been taken a little to far to almost a level of adoration but it's never been a part of Roman Catholic church doctrine to worship them on the same level as God at all, ever, and it never will be. People need to understand the difference between veneration and adoration and worship, they are different things.

 

[Kristos]

People need to understand the difference between veneration and adoration and worship, they are different things.

 

[Kristos]

I said that Nestorians deny that Mary is the Theotokos. This is historical fact. If someone wishes to equivocate another members view with that of a group that denied basic Christological truths (that being that Jesus Christ has always been God) that is their doing, not mine.

This is true. A Nestorian would deny that Mary is Theotokos - they would use the term Christotokos. This was a result of their Christology, not a result of their Mariology. Nestorianism taught that the human and divine essences of Christ are separate and that there are two persons, the man Jesus Christ and the divine Logos, which dwelt in the man. In consequence, Nestorians rejected such terminology as "God suffered" or "God was crucified", because the humanity of Jesus Christ which suffered is separate from his divinity.

Converse may not necessarily be true - that if someone denies the term Theotokos, they are therefore Nestorian. The reason for the denial would have to be examined. If they use the Nestorian arguement to deny the term, then they should of course be called Nestorian. Why would they not embrace it if this is what they truly believe?

 

[Axion]

No she is not.. For we are not to know men according to the flesh.
2Co 5:15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Himin this way no longer.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Of course, by this interpretation God is not your Father either. For it is the same adoptive relationship that makes God your Father, as Makes Mary your spiritual mother. It seems you're getting rid of everyone.

 

[IamAdopted]

Of course, by this interpretation God is not your Father either. For it is the same adoptive relationship that makes God your Father, as Makes Mary your spiritual mother. It seems you're getting rid of everyone.

Mary is not my spiritual mother I am sorry to have to break this to you.. For I don't know anyone according to the flesh.. Only according to the Spirit.. Mary was not Jesus Spiritual Mother.. He didn't have one.. She was His mother here on earth.. We see three in the Godhead. Father Son and Holy Spirit. we do not see four..

 

[IamAdopted]

we do see this
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
Gal 4:24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

 

[Oblio]

We see three in the Godhead. Father Son and Holy Spirit. we do not see four..

If you claim (or imply) we believe that the Theotokos is the fourth person of the Trinity, which we do not, you are falling victim to the Strawman fallacy.

 

[Oblio]

For I don't know anyone according to the flesh.. Only according to the Spirit..

Do you believe flesh and spirit are separate things ? Do you believe that the flesh is evil ?

 

[IamAdopted]

Do you believe flesh and spirit are separate things ? Do you believe that the flesh is evil ?

Do you believe that there is good in the flesh other than Christ seeing He was God in the flesh. What did Jesus say..
Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him! So what do you say. Do you believe that anything in the flesh can be Good other than Christ?

 

[IamAdopted]

Do you believe flesh and spirit are separate things ? Do you believe that the flesh is evil ?

The flesh and spirit are not the same..

 

[Oblio]

The flesh and spirit are not the same..

I didn't ask if they were the same

 

[SeraphimSarov]

If you claim (or imply) we believe that the Theotokos is the fourth person of the Trinity, which we do not, you are falling victim to the Strawman fallacy.

More like falling victim to delusion!

 

[IamAdopted]

I didn't ask if they were the same

Okay sorry let me answer the real question LOL..yes the flesh and spirit are seperate I wouldn't call them things but they are seperate..

 

[IamAdopted]

I was not implying anything but answering this post..

Of course, by this interpretation God is not your Father either. For it is the same adoptive relationship that makes God your Father, as Makes Mary your spiritual mother. It seems you're getting rid of everyone.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Do you believe that there is good in the flesh other than Christ seeing He was God in the flesh. What did Jesus say..
Mat 7:11"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him! So what do you say. Do you believe that anything in the flesh can be Good other than Christ?

You are misinterpreting scripture by taking a verse out of context and absolutizing it.

The flesh itself is not evil, it's living according to the flesh that is evil.

Your misinterpretation is the same as when people say that money is the root of all evil. Money isn't the root of all evil, it's the love of money that is the root of all evil.

"Sola Scriptura" has caused of all this confusion.

2 Peter 1:20
"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation."