UK v US homicide rate 1. it's the guns

[MorkandMindy]

Why does the US with 35% born-again Christians and lots of committed church goers have four times the homicide rate of Britain where 7% are committed church goers, and there are a lot more Muslims (claimed by Americans to be violent)?

and this despite having far more of the population locked up in prison?

Great question.

IMO, the answer is simple, the US has more people, that are willing and motivated to use a gun to kill others.

This has been the majority opinion in all three recent gun violence threads.


What I find worrying about is how many people will stick to their original beliefs formed from a few statements by the NRA despite abundant evidence to the contrary, and the need to condemn their own nation as a murderous people even though it is dominated by their very own Bible-believing Christian religion.

Blaming their population as more murderous than largely agnostic Europe, and stating that if we had fewer guns, as in Europe, that the murder rate here would just be even higher.


Yet if I opened a thread saying 'Agnostic / Muslim Europe less violent than Bible Believing Americans' which is exactly what the Christians are saying in the gun threads, they would probably complain about that too.


Oh well, election coming, time to vote ourselves some pro military corporate stooge to take away our money by starting a new war

 

[WOFFER]

I think the US has a gun culture, which promote gun sales, and idolizes the use of guns. In my ignorant opinion, this is the problem.

Too many Americans see guns as heroic and amazing, instead of dangerous death machines.

Glad you realize your opinion is ignorant. I am not saying you are ignorant, just your opinion on this subject.

 

[super animator]

I think the US has a gun culture, which promote gun sales, and idolizes the use of guns. In my ignorant opinion, this is the problem.

Too many Americans see guns as heroic and amazing, instead of dangerous death machines.

You act like that being gun enthusiastic is inherently a bad thing.

 

[Locutus]

Why does the US with 35% born-again Christians and lots of committed church goers have four times the homicide rate of Britain where 7% are committed church goers, and there are a lot more Muslims (claimed by Americans to be violent)?

and this despite having far more of the population locked up in prison?

quoted for emphasis. and to see if any Christians actually respond to it.

 

[Paradoxum]

You act like that being gun enthusiastic is inherently a bad thing.

Perhaps it is a bad thing.

I understand liking weapons. I've wanted a sword for years (still don't have one), and I can imagine enjoying shooting a gun, but I think the US takes it too far. People seem to love guns too far there.

I suspect it is the 'gun love' culture which promotes mass shootings.

 

[Paradoxum]

Glad you realize your opinion is ignorant. I am not saying you are ignorant, just your opinion on this subject.

I still think I'm right though.

 

[super animator]

Perhaps it is a bad thing.

I understand liking weapons. I've wanted a sword for years (still don't have one), and I can imagine enjoying shooting a gun, but I think the US takes it too far. People seem to love guns too far there.

I suspect it is the 'gun love' culture which promotes mass shootings.

Elaborate. What do you mean by taking it to far? I can list examples of fandom to creepy disturbing levels that has nothing to do with guns. Even then, they are not harming anyone.

 

[Locutus]

Perhaps it is a bad thing.

I suspect it is the 'gun love' culture which promotes mass shootings.

Guns aren't like other weapons, for obvious reasons. I think it's one thing to admire a sword or other blade weapon, but another altogether to admire a semi-automatic assault rifle.

Sometimes things we might like carry a philosophical or ethical burden - quite apart from any tangible or physical burden. These are the things it behoves us to rise above.

 

[RAnonUS19B]

It is not because of the, right to bare arms, or the amount of guns American's have. This is just a delusional falsity spread by, Liberals, or similar. The number one reason of gun violence is due to the immigration influx from countries, to America, or Europe. This is my opinion based on facts, you can attempt to refute this but It won't change the facts. I agree their is a bit increase in gun violence due to Children, or immature Adults gaining access to guns easily, but it does not result it this huge of a increase.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The gun violence thread while very interesting is long and complex because there are so many factors.

Not once in all the "gun violence" threads have the relevant factors been discussed.

I thought it might be best to have a thread for each factor to improve the focus

No, you have selected "factors" that don't explain anything, unless you get away from the gun discussion.

There appear to be three lines of reasoning - the higher rate of homicides in the US is due to:

Three more irrelevant factors.

1. the abundance of guns

Mathematically the more guns there are the less likely any one will be used in a homicide.

2. the violent nature of occupants of the US

Black and Hispanic gangs, yes.

3. something about the combination of 1. and 2.

More like the combination of Black and Hispanic gangs with guns.

If for example the problem is the media sensationalises gun violence than that is an input into the minds and should be considered with all the other inputs into the minds of the occupants of the US (2).

The media has an anti-gun agenda, therefore cannot be objective, or honest.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Too many Americans see guns as heroic and amazing, instead of dangerous death machines.

But those aren't the ones who are the problem. That statement is no different than 'shooting the innocent bystander' and allowing the culprit to go free. To see the real 'problem' you must examine each individual case and come to a decision about it. This has never been entertained in any discussion of the subject on these forums.

 

[WOFFER]

I still think I'm right though.

Don't all Liberal Democrats, of course we all know its not true. Usually when I know I am ignorant on a subject, I withhold my opinion since my opinion is not based on any facts.

 

[MorkandMindy]

 

[OldWiseGuy]

View attachment 169559

How many of the 34 were committed by criminals, and how many only became criminals when they pulled the trigger?

 

[MorkandMindy]

In the US gun deaths exceed vehicle related deaths of pedestrians, cyclists, motor cyclists, car occupants, SUV occupants, truck occupants of all sorts and caused by all these. That's a lot of people. Maybe you would like to give the true explanation.

 

[Murby]

The reason the USA is more violent is due to the fact that we have one characteristic no other country has.. We are a melting pot of every other country in the world. We are the only country with such a wildly diverse population made up of just about every culture, race, and religion in the world.

Due to this fact, there are bound to be clashes between the various differences. It takes a while for different cultures to acclimate to each other and the process can be long and messy.

You could take away every gun in the USA and we'd still have the violence.. it would just morph into a different form.

Also, guns have a way of leveling the battlefield between women and men. Men, in general, posses superior strength, size, and weight, and will usually over power a woman quite easily. Guns have a way of reducing that advantage and allows a woman to protect herself against assault.

Here is some good news.. While the melting pot may be messy for a while, it also results in mixed race offspring. Scientist have concluded two interesting facts.. the further away your parents are separated in the DNA pool, the healthier your children are likely to be. The closer your parents are in the DNA pool, the more likely your children are to have health problems. This is why incest is so bad and why entire royal families and dynasties have fallen because of it.

To say that blacks or Hispanics, or any other race, are the source of violence is just ignorant, stupid, and quite frankly racist. Funny thing is, I don't find the racism as offensive as I do the ignorance that breeds it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Due to this fact, there are bound to be clashes between the various differences. It takes a while for different cultures to acclimate to each other and the process can be long and messy.

Black people are many times more likely to attack a white person than the other way around. When do you think they will "acclimate"?

To say that blacks or Hispanics, or any other race, are the source of violence is just ignorant, stupid, and quite frankly racist. Funny thing is, I don't find the racism as offensive as I do the ignorance that breeds it.

Of course they are not the source of all violence, but they are the most violent as a group.

Why do you think that pointing this fact out is ignorant, stupid, and racist? Don't we need to know this information to better deal with it, and for our own safety? Do you take issue with all the data that supports this fact, gathered by the FBI, and many other agencies?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In the US gun deaths exceed vehicle related deaths of pedestrians, cyclists, motor cyclists, car occupants, SUV occupants, truck occupants of all sorts and caused by all these. That's a lot of people. Maybe you would like to give the true explanation.

Man, we just can't keep you anti's from slipping the gun suicide numbers in there can we?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

View attachment 168738

If you subtract the homicides committed by blacks and Hispanics in the U.S. our murder rates would be nearly the same.

 

[Murby]

Black people are many times more likely to attack a white person than the other way around. When do you think they will "acclimate"?

Actually white people are more likely to attack white people. But, so long as we are using logic at the level of a 6th grader, or at best, a poorly performing high school kid, we could extend your ridiculous comment and say that since the greater majority of blacks are also religiously affiliated as Protestant, then maybe that's the problem?

See how idiotic statements like that are?